Coach Sack Horse

[kelpie_X]

May be time for a “why I love Horse” thread

That's a great idea. Go start an "I love Horse" thread Rusty and you won't have to stress out in here again.

 

[rustycrate]

But he isn’t a “mate”. Not to supporters, not to players and not to club staff. He’s the Head Coach of one of the biggest clubs in the most elite professional football competition in Australia.

I get that some supporters are less constructive in their comments than others but it’s got nothing to do with “kicking a man when he’s down”. It’s about wanting a Head Coach that delivers the best possible performances that put us in the strongest possible position to win a premiership.

His last four attempts to win a Grand Final have failed. And failed dismally. As such it’s perfectly legitimate to question if he’s still the best person to lead the team. Again, I appreciate that some posters are perhaps less constructive, maybe less thoughtful in their comments than others, but for you to dismiss those who think that he should leave as weak, somehow lacking character, or just being keyboard warriors is completely unreasonable.

I agree. Constructive criticism is warranted. Destructive criticism isn't.
Cheap shots are just that. Cheap. I am all for a change of coach as long as the discussion around it is constructive and respectful.

Yes he has a dismal GF record. Just having cheap shots against the club and the coach is not, IMO, a dignified way of transitioning to a new coach.

That was my intent in my posting.

 

[Mister B]

The more I think about it the more the issue is the fact that nothing has changed in terms of the core of his coaching style. The better teams pick it apart but you look at the shit teams that have knocked us off on a regular basis. They all have a former staff member or coach that was involved with our club. They know what they are going to get. The minute Dew left GC, we broke the ridiculous hold they had over us.

That being said, based on some of our decision making throughout the year, maybe the reason we hold onto horse is that the players aren’t bright enough to learn a new style of play.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Let's all have a free swing at Horse. Kick a man when he is down.
Friends, teammates, true teammates stick by their mates.
What I see is weak people having a free hit at people. That is what weak people do.

Continue on on having a free at our club and enjoying it by liking the posts as well.

I will be watching all the weak people having casual shots at Horse. That is the weak people.

Those of you with CHARACTER that have some sort of SPINE, those of you that have lived life and understand HARDSHIP. Those of you that appreciate FRIENDS. Friends that stand by you when things don't always go the right way.

Weak people pile in on people experiencing hardship.
Strong people say how can I help.

Which one of you keyboard warriors are you.

You all know who you are.

By your posts I do.

Fair reply. We all have our opinions. I jumped into a pool of sharks voraciously feeding off a carcass IMO.

I thought it was time to balance the argument. It seemed a bit one sided in here.

I agree. Constructive criticism is warranted. Destructive criticism isn't.
Cheap shots are just that. Cheap. I am all for a change of coach as long as the discussion around it is constructive and respectful.

Yes he has a dismal GF record. Just having cheap shots against the club and the coach is not, IMO, a dignified way of transitioning to a new coach.

That was my intent in my posting.

Rusty, I am usually a huge fan of your posts, both content and style, but I really feel the need to respond to the above, as I am one of your so called weak people with no spine, keyboard warrior types that you have decided to attack here.

I am a 20 year plus member of the club, I have always been a fervent supporter and up until 28 days ago, I ALWAYS thought we would win.
I live my life very much in the Monty Python "always look on the bright side of life" style and it is my way to be a very positive person in all aspects. If you read my posting history, time and time again I have defended the coach and players when things weren't going well. I've had pot shots at other posters for being negative and, what I thought at the time, unsupportive - but what happened four weeks ago has broken me, not the actual result, the way we played.
At the moment I can honestly say I don't believe I will see another Swans flag in my lifetime and that breaks my heart.

So, in response to your posts above, I'm so happy that you are still full of hope and excitement at our coach and playing list, but please forgive me and those like me on here that, after four dreadful defeats in the last 11 grand finals, have had enough.

Oh and by the way, you accuse me, Caesar and those that think like us of kicking a man when he's down, but I feel the wording in your aforementioned posts is EXACTLY what you are doing to those of us that are still hurting.

 

[rustycrate]

Rusty, I am usually a huge fan of your posts, both content and style, but I really feel the need to respond to the above, as I am one of your so called weak people with no spine, keyboard warrior types that you have decided to attack here.

I am a 20 year plus member of the club, I have always been a fervent supporter and up until 28 days ago, I ALWAYS thought we would win.
I live my life very much in the Monty Python "always look on the bright side of life" style and it is my way to be a very positive person in all aspects. If you read my posting history, time and time again I have defended the coach and players when things weren't going well. I've had pot shots at other posters for being negative and, what I thought at the time, unsupportive - but what happened four weeks ago has broken me, not the actual result, the way we played.
At the moment I can honestly say I don't believe I will see another Swans flag in my lifetime and that breaks my heart.

So, in response to your posts above, I'm so happy that you are still full of hope and excitement at our coach and playing list, but please forgive me and those like me on here that, after four dreadful defeats in the last 11 grand finals, have had enough.

Oh and by the way, you accuse me, Caesar and those that think like us of kicking a man when he's down, but I feel the wording in your aforementioned posts is EXACTLY what you are doing to those of us that are still hurting.

I hear you. I am not perfect. Far from it. My formative years were in a high school that was deemed the most violent in NSW. I reckon I just stand up for those that are being victimised. I think it is entrenched in me. I take the side of the one that is down. I had five brothers to protect. Friends to protect. I could handle the violence around me. I guess when I see too much of a pile on on one person I naturally react.

I think first and foremost I support the club. Through think and thin. Dumb as that may sound. I have read this thread countless times and not posted. But I think I reached my tipping point and you know the rest.

I won't apologize. My thoughts are still the same. I did not like some of the cheap posts against Horse. Sure he has not won as many GFs as we would want. I was just as devastated as many on here by not only the loss but more importantly the way we lost and behavior afterwards.

But I don't entertain cheap shots. Never have. Horse has done his best. Yes in many including my eyes he failed on the biggest stage. But he deserves a dignified exit rather than some of the stuff posted here.

Yes my wording probably hurt. Maybe I could have chose my words better. But when you are in the heat of the moment stuff just comes out. I was a bit angry when I wrote that so I apologise for my words. I really do.

But my intent still stands. Horse needs a dignified exit.

 

[caesar88]

Group hug guys

 

[bloodsbigot]

Rusty, I am usually a huge fan of your posts, both content and style, but I really feel the need to respond to the above, as I am one of your so called weak people with no spine, keyboard warrior types that you have decided to attack here.

I am a 20 year plus member of the club, I have always been a fervent supporter and up until 28 days ago, I ALWAYS thought we would win.
I live my life very much in the Monty Python "always look on the bright side of life" style and it is my way to be a very positive person in all aspects. If you read my posting history, time and time again I have defended the coach and players when things weren't going well. I've had pot shots at other posters for being negative and, what I thought at the time, unsupportive - but what happened four weeks ago has broken me, not the actual result, the way we played.
At the moment I can honestly say I don't believe I will see another Swans flag in my lifetime and that breaks my heart.

So, in response to your posts above, I'm so happy that you are still full of hope and excitement at our coach and playing list, but please forgive me and those like me on here that, after four dreadful defeats in the last 11 grand finals, have had enough.

Oh and by the way, you accuse me, Caesar and those that think like us of kicking a man when he's down, but I feel the wording in your aforementioned posts is EXACTLY what you are doing to those of us that are still hurting.

Yeah I completely agree here. This is the game that made me lose faith in the club. It broke me. I've never felt so let down in my life watching sport.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Yeah I completely agree here. This is the game that made me lose faith in the club. It broke me. I've never felt so let down in my life watching sport.

I lost faith after 2022 that we will likely never see a flag with this group

 

[bloodsbigot]

I lost faith after 2022 that we will likely never see a flag with this group

I didn't lose faith after 2022. Since they were first timers. Big stage got to them. Home ground advantage to the cats. Too young. No ruck. Etc.

2024 was just no excuses at all. We were playing a banged-up, non-vic team. More mature. First class ruck. Got absolutely annihilated.

 

[Tedeski]

I agree. Constructive criticism is warranted. Destructive criticism isn't.
Cheap shots are just that. Cheap. I am all for a change of coach as long as the discussion around it is constructive and respectful.

Yes he has a dismal GF record. Just having cheap shots against the club and the coach is not, IMO, a dignified way of transitioning to a new coach.

That was my intent in my posting.

The whole club is fair game Rusty. No other club in recent history has had such a poor GF record from so many opportunities.

I’m still waiting as a supporter for my debrief for having to endure that costly debacle 3 of the 4 times.

 

[Tedeski]

I lost faith after 2022 that we will likely never see a flag with this group

Yep me too.
That’s when I could see right through our coaching staff & game plan with the new all out attack style of footy, where we had not 1 player that was capable of winning one on one contests regularly, which is the basis of halting an oppositions momentum & unanswered scores. Nothing has changed so my thoughts on game style were proven correct once again.
Going forward with this whole group, coaches & players, nothing will change. Freshen the place up.

 

[tombomb]

The whole club is fair game Rusty. No other club in recent history has had such a poor GF record from so many opportunities.

I’m still waiting as a supporter for my debrief for having to endure that costly debacle 3 of the 4 times.

Good luck with that. The club never tells the supporters anything. Best you might get is a couple of clichés about working harder.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Instead of “Roast”, this thread should be classed as “ The King! Grenade”.

 

[rustycrate]

The whole club is fair game Rusty. No other club in recent history has had such a poor GF record from so many opportunities.

I’m still waiting as a supporter for my debrief for having to endure that costly debacle 3 of the 4 times.

If you want to behave like Port supporters that attack the club negatively rather than positively then go ahead.
I reckon most Swans supporters have more class than Port supporters.

There are always different ways to go about achieving the same end. You can go destructive like Port fans. You can go a different way and make your thoughts known respectfully and still achieve the same end.

Each to their own. Horse has presided over a period of success that is unparalleled in Swans history. Yes he has failed at the pointy end too many times to be forgiven by many. But it is not that he didn't try. He did his best. To denigrate him and want to throw him in the waste basket without thinking of the transition to ensure the continued success of the club is dumb. To want to immediately get rid of him without giving credit to the huge contribution he has made to the club is thinking that this coaching shit is somehow easy and thinking any new coach will do better.

Be sure you are happy with what you wish for.

 

[Bloods86]

If you want to behave like Port supporters that attack the club negatively rather than positively then go ahead.
I reckon most Swans supporters have more class than Port supporters.

There are always different ways to go about achieving the same end. You can go destructive like Port fans. You can go a different way and make your thoughts known respectfully and still achieve the same end.

Each to their own. Horse has presided over a period of success that is unparalleled in Swans history. Yes he has failed at the pointy end too many times to be forgiven by many. But it is not that he didn't try. He did his best. To denigrate him and want to throw him in the waste basket without thinking of the transition to ensure the continued success of the club is dumb. To want to immediately get rid of him without giving credit to the huge contribution he has made to the club is thinking that this coaching shit is somehow easy and thinking any new coach will do better.

Be sure you are happy with what you wish for.

Do you think the Sack Hinkley camp only started forming in the last couple of years?

It's been around for a long time, and the longer the club goes on failing to act, the anger will only grow.

I think the view of some is that him (Horse) doing his best isn't good enough, so he should resign/be removed. And their view is that if he doesn't/isn't, then absolutely he and the club deserve some heat.

I'd also question the "continued success" we've apparently been having.

 

[McGowan3]

If you want to behave like Port supporters that attack the club negatively rather than positively then go ahead.
I reckon most Swans supporters have more class than Port supporters.

There are always different ways to go about achieving the same end. You can go destructive like Port fans. You can go a different way and make your thoughts known respectfully and still achieve the same end.

Each to their own. Horse has presided over a period of success that is unparalleled in Swans history. Yes he has failed at the pointy end too many times to be forgiven by many. But it is not that he didn't try. He did his best. To denigrate him and want to throw him in the waste basket without thinking of the transition to ensure the continued success of the club is dumb. To want to immediately get rid of him without giving credit to the huge contribution he has made to the club is thinking that this coaching shit is somehow easy and thinking any new coach will do better.

Be sure you are happy with what you wish for.

Is it possible that JL coached us so well that we overachieved in both 2022 and 2024 by making the GF? Our midfield didn't stack up in contested footy in both games and got found out. Coach's fault or lack of talent?

 

[caesar88]

Is it possible that JL coached us so well that we overachieved in both 2022 and 2024 by making the GF? Our midfield didn't stack up in contested footy in both games and got found out. Coach's fault or lack of talent?

Horse must be the unluckiest coach in the world that he hasn't been able to have a quality group of mids to work with in any of the past seven seasons...

 

[The King!]

If you want to behave like Port supporters that attack the club negatively rather than positively then go ahead.
I reckon most Swans supporters have more class than Port supporters.

There are always different ways to go about achieving the same end. You can go destructive like Port fans. You can go a different way and make your thoughts known respectfully and still achieve the same end.

Each to their own. Horse has presided over a period of success that is unparalleled in Swans history. Yes he has failed at the pointy end too many times to be forgiven by many. But it is not that he didn't try. He did his best. To denigrate him and want to throw him in the waste basket without thinking of the transition to ensure the continued success of the club is dumb. To want to immediately get rid of him without giving credit to the huge contribution he has made to the club is thinking that this coaching shit is somehow easy and thinking any new coach will do better.

Be sure you are happy with what you wish for.

It's not near as successful as the clubs apex of the 30s

How anyone immediately getting rid of him he has coached over 300 games and 13 years .

Maybe you should retire the high horse you keep getting on like you can dictate what a true swans supporter should think. Sound like you support mediocrity

The guy has led us to to more humiliation than success now, most professions he would have been sacked 2 grand final flops ago

 

[tombomb]

Is it possible that JL coached us so well that we overachieved in both 2022 and 2024 by making the GF? Our midfield didn't stack up in contested footy in both games and got found out. Coach's fault or lack of talent?

I tend to agree that if you replaced Longmire with another coach the past 5 years, there is every chance we don't even make a GF to underperform in.

However at some point, there has to be some accountability for dreadful performances at the most important time.

And it isn't just the two recent grand finals (or 2014 and 16). In 2017 we completely embarrassed ourselves against Geelong in a semi. In 2018, we were humiliated by GWS. Last year against Carlton, even though we fought back in the second half, the game was basically over at half time.

I am not in the sack the coach crew, but there is enormous pressure on next year. I am not even that worried about the end result, but if we don't show some pretty significant team changes, especially in the middle, early next season. Then I will be joining the crew.

 

[rustycrate]

Do you think the Sack Hinkley camp only started forming in the last couple of years?

It's been around for a long time, and the longer the club goes on failing to act, the anger will only grow.

I think the view of some is that him (Horse) doing his best isn't good enough, so he should resign/be removed. And their view is that if he doesn't/isn't, then absolutely he and the club deserve some heat.

I'd also question the "continued success" we've apparently been having.

I remember the sack Mark Thompson before Geelong won their flag in 2008.
I remember the get rid of Hardwick prior to their run of success. There were parties that wanted to sack the board. But they prevailed and had a run of success that was amazing.

So you think that giving in leads to club success or persevering leads to club success? Only history will tell us that answer.

Some of the clubs above were in the same position but did not give up. If they did they would not have achived premiership success.

You can choose examples to justify your sack Horse. You can also choose examples that justify Horse.

Plenty of angry Geelong supporters are happy now.
Plenty of angry Richmond supporters are happy now.

I guess we will see if we stick firm and win or not. Or we go someone else and you will be happier I guess.

 

[Bloods86]

I remember the sack Mark Thompson before Geelong won their flag in 2008.
I remember the get rid of Hardwick prior to their run of success. There were parties that wanted to sack the board. But they prevailed and had a run of success that was amazing.

So you think that giving in leads to club success or persevering leads to club success? Only history will tell us that answer.

Some of the clubs above were in the same position but did not give up. If they did they would not have achived premiership success.

You can choose examples to justify your sack Horse. You can also choose examples that justify Horse.

Plenty of angry Geelong supporters are happy now.
Plenty of angry Richmond supporters are happy now.

I guess we will see if we stick firm and win or not. Or we go someone else and you will be happier I guess.

I haven't said that we should sack him now. I'm giving him 1 more year. We should not think about extending him until after the 2025 season finishes though.

But I can see why some have lost patience. Recent evidence suggests he's unable to get teams to perform on grand final day, or provide a competitive gameplan, or learn lessons from past defeats.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some action/communication from the club to show us that they understand what went wrong and they are trying to fix it. All we have up to now is that premierships don't define us, or that we seem to think 2024 was successful still (which are concerning comments).

With the Hardwick logic, do we just keep extending him forever, because it's theoretically possible he might win another flag despite recent evidence?

 

[caesar88]

I'd be surprised if Horse even wanted to coach beyond next year. Rightly or wrongly his legacy is being blown to bits. I also think this year was one of his worst seasons as a coach despite the ladder finish and making a GF. There were so many - too many - frustrating decisions.

 

[Tedeski]

If you want to behave like Port supporters that attack the club negatively rather than positively then go ahead.
I reckon most Swans supporters have more class than Port supporters.

There are always different ways to go about achieving the same end. You can go destructive like Port fans. You can go a different way and make your thoughts known respectfully and still achieve the same end.

Each to their own. Horse has presided over a period of success that is unparalleled in Swans history. Yes he has failed at the pointy end too many times to be forgiven by many. But it is not that he didn't try. He did his best. To denigrate him and want to throw him in the waste basket without thinking of the transition to ensure the continued success of the club is dumb. To want to immediately get rid of him without giving credit to the huge contribution he has made to the club is thinking that this coaching shit is somehow easy and thinking any new coach will do better.

Be sure you are happy with what you wish for.

Preaching to the wrong bloke Rusty.
Those that know me on here from the start will tell you that I was one of the most positive posters on here until the 2022 GF was over. I don’t wish for anything other than a tougher group.
We don’t represent tough anymore.
Our great late mate nicknamed me Rebecca from Sunnybrook Farm, such was his annoyance at my positivity.
So if it’s alright with you & all of the long time posters on here, I’d like to post about my annoyance freely.
By all means cheer as hard as you can Rusty & take over my positive mantle as the new Rebecca From Sunnybrooke Farm as GUH will be looking down at us & laughing his head off at how much I’ve changed.

 

[rustycrate]

I haven't said that we should sack him now. I'm giving him 1 more year. We should not think about extending him until after the 2025 season finishes though.

But I can see why some have lost patience. Recent evidence suggests he's unable to get teams to perform on grand final day, or provide a competitive gameplan, or learn lessons from past defeats.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some action/communication from the club to show us that they understand what went wrong and they are trying to fix it. All we have up to now is that premierships don't define us, or that we seem to think 2024 was successful still (which are concerning comments).

With the Hardwick logic, do we just keep extending him forever, because it's theoretically possible he might win another flag despite recent evidence?

I'm not suggesting you did. There are lots of posts on here and I am responding to them as a group.

I can also see the loss of patience and I can understand it.

I have never heard the club say that premierships don't define us. Maybe I missed something.

You can extended Horse if you think he is best to lead us forward. If the club thinks not, then make the change. I am open to positive change if the club believes it will lead to better outcomes.

 

[Tedeski]

I'm not suggesting you did. There are lots of posts on here and I am responding to them as a group.

I can also see the loss of patience and I can understand it.

I have never heard the club say that premierships don't define us. Maybe I missed something.

You can extended Horse if you think he is best to lead us forward. If the club thinks not, then make the change. I am open to positive change if the club believes it will lead to better outcomes.

Horse has one more year. I don’t want him sacked. But a new voice from left field needs to be brought in. A few comfortable players need to be moved on.
We tried. It failed.
NEXT!