Hostage Situation - Martin Place, Sydney

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brucetiki said:
Apologies if this sounds a little preachy but love will always win out over hate - as #illridewithyou shows.
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Funny you should talk about 'hate'.

You might be surprised to learn that the founder of the 'illridewithyou' hashtag happens to hate quite a lot of people in this country.

For their skin colour!

As a WoC I feel cheap. Not worth as much to you, white person, as your fellow white people.

I'm learning about hate because I am coming to hate you, white person. You have all the control, all the power, all the privilege, and there is nothing holding you accountable. I hate the double standards and hypocrisy you display, the rank dishonesty of your conduct. I hate that you can harm us, when we cannot harm you.

http://silence-without.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/the-long-campaign-against-racism-bogged.html

[Don't card me bro]
 
Unknown Identity said:
So Joel Herats father has said that Monis wasn't falling asleep, he was wide awake and herded them into groups of 6.

Herats group decided to make a run for it as they felt he was becoming extremely agitated.

The group of 6 fled and Thompson was killed shortly after..
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Yes, I read that last night which changes things slightly. Certainly makes a bit of mockery of people criticising Tori Johnson's actions as it would appear he has done what he did quite some time after the main group escape. That would suggest it wasn't his actions which led to the escalation, but rather him making a decision that something needed to be done to protect the last handful of people that remained.
 

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Smiling Buddha said:
Funny you should talk about 'hate'.

You might be surprised to learn that the founder of the 'illridewithyou' hashtag happens to hate quite a lot of people in this country.

For their skin colour!

As a WoC I feel cheap. Not worth as much to you, white person, as your fellow white people.

I'm learning about hate because I am coming to hate you, white person. You have all the control, all the power, all the privilege, and there is nothing holding you accountable. I hate the double standards and hypocrisy you display, the rank dishonesty of your conduct. I hate that you can harm us, when we cannot harm you.

http://silence-without.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/the-long-campaign-against-racism-bogged.html

[Don't card me bro]
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Wow, that's one of the most self-indulgent blogs I've read for a while, and I say that as a MoC (Mod or campaigner)
 
Gibbsy said:
Russell Brand's take. Even if you don't like the guy, it's worth watching to see how he dissects the media/Abbott's reaction.

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Doesnt he neglect to mention that fact it's an ISIS flag, that he demanded that they announce it as an ISIS attack, and ignore the consequences that could've occurred if Abbott had spoken to this prick live on air?

I partly agree with some of his points, but if the above is accurate (I think it is, but I'm at the airport and can't watch it again), then he's full of shit and misrepresenting things to try and make a point.
 
King Elvis said:
Doesnt he neglect to mention that fact it's an ISIS flag, that he demanded that they announce it as an ISIS attack, and ignore the consequences that could've occurred if Abbott had spoken to this prick live on air?

I partly agree with some of his points, but if the above is accurate (I think it is, but I'm at the airport and can't watch it again), then he's full of shit and misrepresenting things to try and make a point.
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Stopped watching after 3 minutes blokes a knob
 
King Elvis said:
Doesnt he neglect to mention that fact it's an ISIS flag, that he demanded that they announce it as an ISIS attack, and ignore the consequences that could've occurred if Abbott had spoken to this prick live on air?.
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I can't believe people are actually advocating politicians second guessing the advice/demands of experts installed in positions of power to make these exact decisions, as if it would be helpful.

There's an Australian "commentator" of some note, with some background in politics, putting the death of that poor woman squarely on the head of the prime minister for that reason. Shameful stuff.
 
Illinois Nazi said:
The people who just want any excuse to criticise Abbott for anything he ever does are missing the mark here. There is no way on earth that he or any other PM would or should talk to a terrorist in that situation.
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This.

It just encourages other lunatics to do the same thing
 
Sydney Bloods said:
Just to address this as i feel its required, i'm not attacking you.
BUT.........TV is utter bullshit.

despite all the crap about double taps and what not, it just never happens.
the large number of shots are suppressing fire.

this, despite what it looks like is actually a fair advanced tactic when used this way.
the first barrage of shots took down the glass doors, allowing entry while preventing the target from being able to shoot them on entry.
once inside they continue to shoot ahead of them on full auto again preventing the target from aiming at them.
at the same time flash grenades are going off behind them which again prevents the target from being able to aim and shoot, he might be able to blind fire but thats about it.

which is why they stay in close formation and try to fire as a unit because a person's natural reaction is to shoot at the centre of all this carnage (shield guy)and while all this is going on with the flash grenades the barrage of shots the incoming fire, possibly second teams shooting and stun grenades that they are walking towards.

They are not only need to stay in formation move at a specific speed so they they stay coordinated with secondary teams and don't end up shoot each other they also are on alert to identify target from hostage and do all this quick enough that they can take the target at out with as minimal casualties as possible.

this idea that hollywood has produced with their stylised shoot outs gives people a false sense of reality. short of a spec ops planned surgical strike (which takes longer than 17 hours) you don't get much more professional than that.

it isn't pretty it's not meant to be, hell look at the most famous spec op's raid in history the iranian embassy. took 17 minutes over a 800 rounds fired by the SAS, the breach got stuffed with the point man getting tangled in the rope, they had to kick in the window in. one hostage died and one of the sas commandos was severely burnt.

it's not the movies there's no silent ninja insertion and a whisper quiet shot to the head that nobody notices. it just doesn't happen.
hell look at the specialist raids in afghanistan primary entry, they use a combat shotgun to rip straight through the shitty doors at the same time throw in as many as 5-6 flashbags in any opening from windows to doors to cracks in the walls and enter the moment they go off anyone thats moving gets literally a kick in the guts be them men women or children and this is for intel gathering when no one knows their coming.
If your armed and they think your expecting you, they will more or less breach the same way....... and if you don't have hostages you better hope you have some top class intel, because if you don't and they for a second don't think they can you alive. the SAS wont go in, they'll use other assets.
namely a 25MM chaingun mounted on an alsav.

thats our top notch Tier one operators the best in the world, primary choice when there's no hostages to worry about.

if you take the best known recuse where a spec ops team used sniping, that maersk highjacking.
that sniper team had 3 days to prepare had clear line of sight and nothing between them and the target.

so lets say they went all sniping, first off single shot won't work there's no accurate way to shot through glass even taking a .50 cal. the moment it hits the glass the trajectory is deflected you simply cannot tell where the bullet will go.
hence you need 2 snipers and a spotter. the spotter gives them the go because the snipers have every limited view through their scope.
first sniper takes out the window the second does the kill shot both shots have to be within less then a second of each other.

a building with small, thick windows a guy moving around. its a tough strike for anyone, even the best. and just remember this wasn't their call the scumbag shot a hostage and as a result they breached. they couldn't wait for a sniper team to get to do a precision hit. he was shooting they needed to act.

cops aren't executioners, they would have happily waited 3-4 days if required, they went in because the situation broke down.

the only time you will EVER see a double tap (which in real life is a at least 3 though often its 6, two in the head two in each lung prevents any possibility of resuscitation) is if its a straight up execution, the team plans knows everything and strikes when the target least expects it, the targets often unarmed and many times sound asleep when they move in.
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Thanks, have no response other than that was an extremely informative read. Much appreciated.
 
King Elvis said:
Doesnt he neglect to mention that fact it's an ISIS flag, that he demanded that they announce it as an ISIS attack, and ignore the consequences that could've occurred if Abbott had spoken to this prick live on air?

I partly agree with some of his points, but if the above is accurate (I think it is, but I'm at the airport and can't watch it again), then he's full of shit and misrepresenting things to try and make a point.
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It wasn't an ISIS flag though
 

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I think it should be stated just cause the guy wanted to be recognised as part of ISIS doesn't mean he has anything to do with them.

As far as I know they haven't come out and claimed any responsibility for it, or even claiming a knowledge of this guys existence.

It just seems like one looner who has wanted to cotton onto an ideology. Obviously that is not a great situation, but doesn't really suggest a pattern of many others in this country wanting to do the same, although I'm sure there are others out there.
 
The Passenger said:
I think it should be stated just cause the guy wanted to be recognised as part of ISIS doesn't mean he has anything to do with them.

As far as I know they haven't come out and claimed any responsibility for it, or even claiming a knowledge of this guys existence.

It just seems like one looner who has wanted to cotton onto an ideology. Obviously that is not a great situation, but doesn't really suggest a pattern of many others in this country wanting to do the same, although I'm sure there are others out there.
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Exactly, it is like with Sooz and North Melbourne FC.
 
Gibbsy said:
It wasn't an ISIS flag though
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The thing with this flag business, you are exactly right in the regard that it isn't an ISIS flag specifically, but we have seemingly got hung up on the literal translation of that Arabic script.

The real question is, we are all pretty intelligent people on here, what is the message he is trying to get across in using that flag? I would have thought, it matters little what the words are, it is straight out of the extremist playbook.
 
Gibbsy said:
Russell Brand's take. Even if you don't like the guy, it's worth watching to see how he dissects the media/Abbott's reaction.

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Exactly, he had absolutely no connection with IS in any way. His previous reports signify a violent, hateful person. This siege was an extension on his violence – none of them served any divine purpose but intrinsic hate.

He wanted an ISIS flag because it was the closest banner he could sit under. It was a convenient, close branch to hold onto to somehow 'verify' his actions. And, like all modern acts like this, ISIS was a way to get the media on board: all of a sudden a mental case attempting to kill people for no actual end motive is suddenly a terror attack. But of course, that's the narrative people love to hear and the narrative the government can hijack.

I said this pages ago. Because I know everything.

And he's right on about big Tony and his jingoism (which is probably the thing Mid Australia love about the guy). He has hijacked a totally irrelevant mental case's actions as justification for a preservation of 'Australia:' war, immigration, surveillance being the tools he'll use to say are protecting us. Of course every single able government will do these things anyway and that's an adult truth.

What I find amazing, though, is people will neglect to accept media hyperbole and agenda if it comes from this forum (because the posters who express it are dislikable – or they're easy to gang up on when some MOR, indifferent, baselessly-smug poster will belittle them to boost their own lives [lol on a forum] via likes). But as soon as a guy like Rusty Brand says it, the ideas are somehow verified? This isn't someone writing a peer-reviewed paper, this is an entertainer, but of course that'll pass and the few posters on here expressing contrarian views will be shut down for being insensitive or something.
 

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Hostage Situation - Martin Place, Sydney

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