All players, regardless of position, should be compared because it's all about impact on the game. But it's much harder to compare a forward to a defender or midfielder so it's easier to make comparisons within positions.
When analyzing KPFs, especially in the past, there's always a question of whether they're a FF or a CHF. The line is often very blurred, making it hard to know what forwards to compare. Many of the great forwards have played both at one point or another. For entire seasons, portions of a season, or as an adjustment during a game.
Stewart Loewe played CHF with Tony Lockett then transitioned to FF when he left. Wayne Carey was undeniably a CHF in the early days with John Longmire there but became more of a hybrid CHF/FF after Horse went down with injury. I actually found an old article from 2006 where Duck talks about this:
Those are a couple of examples that spring to mind. Matthew Richardson is another guy who can be hard to place. He played extremely high up at times but also deep as well.
I suppose the distinction isn't that important but it can make it hard to analyze and compare players. Which forwards should be compared to which? It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme but you expect certain things from both positions. A full-forward plays deeper and would be expected to accumulate more marks inside 50 and kick more goals. A center-half forward in theory should be more involved and get more disposals because they play higher up the ground.
Which brings me to the topic of this thread: Barry Hall.
Barry played both FF and CHF. I think it's safe to say he was a CHF in his best years and should be compared to other CHFs. Here's an article from December 2003 talking about the permanent move to play higher up the ground:
This seems to coincide with his disposals per game increasing. His numbers from 2004 to 2006 were very impressive:
2004: 14.4 disposals (10.2 kicks; 4.2 handballs), 8.0 marks, 3.1 goals (1.6 behinds)
2005: 15.0 disposals (11.5 kicks; 3.5 handballs), 7.9 marks, 3.1 goals (1.6 behinds)
2006: 14.6 disposals (11.3 kicks; 3.3 handballs), 8.6 marks, 3.1 goals (1.5 behinds)
His tackle numbers were also very good and peaked higher than Tredrea, Riewoldt, and Brown during that period of time. From memory, his defensive pressure as a KPF was strong.
He actually won the AFL Coaches Association MVP in 2005. That's the same award Tredrea won the year prior. But you never hear people talk about Barry's 2005 like you do Warren's 2004. Both were All-Australian, won MVPs, kicked 80+ goals while getting plenty of the ball, and were pivotal contributors to premiership-winning teams.
So my question to you is in the thread title: how did prime Barry Hall compare to the other great CHFs? Both all-time and in that era.
When analyzing KPFs, especially in the past, there's always a question of whether they're a FF or a CHF. The line is often very blurred, making it hard to know what forwards to compare. Many of the great forwards have played both at one point or another. For entire seasons, portions of a season, or as an adjustment during a game.
Stewart Loewe played CHF with Tony Lockett then transitioned to FF when he left. Wayne Carey was undeniably a CHF in the early days with John Longmire there but became more of a hybrid CHF/FF after Horse went down with injury. I actually found an old article from 2006 where Duck talks about this:
Those are a couple of examples that spring to mind. Matthew Richardson is another guy who can be hard to place. He played extremely high up at times but also deep as well.
I suppose the distinction isn't that important but it can make it hard to analyze and compare players. Which forwards should be compared to which? It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme but you expect certain things from both positions. A full-forward plays deeper and would be expected to accumulate more marks inside 50 and kick more goals. A center-half forward in theory should be more involved and get more disposals because they play higher up the ground.
Which brings me to the topic of this thread: Barry Hall.
Barry played both FF and CHF. I think it's safe to say he was a CHF in his best years and should be compared to other CHFs. Here's an article from December 2003 talking about the permanent move to play higher up the ground:
Hall plans extra bustle to have his rivals on the run
www.theage.com.au
Hall plans extra bustle to have his rivals on the run
December 8, 2003 — 11.00am
Having been thrust further afield in 2003 because of injuries to teammates, Sydney's Barry Hall is looking to make centre half-forward his own next season.
Despite being one of the competition's most lethal full-forwards, the Sydney spearhead said yesterday he would be focusing over the summer on becoming fitter to cope with the extra running he would have to do upfield.
"During the pre-season, I'll be basing things around the centre half-forward position this year instead of the short, sharp stuff, get a little bit more aerobic so I can run around a bit more," he said.
"It was great last year (playing up the ground). It was through necessity, with Mick O'Loughlin having a few injuries and stuff, I had to push up the ground a bit.
"It was a good experience and one I really embraced. I don't know what the plan will be for this year, whether I will be full-forward or centre half (forward) but I'll certainly put my pre-season around centre half-forward and get a bit fitter and hopefully run around a bit more."
Hall, who led the Swans' goalkicking in 2003 with 56 goals, said he was not daunted by what many see as the toughest position on the ground. He is, in fact, relishing the chance to have more influence on the game.
"Yeah, it's obviously very different (from full-forward), more running, but then hopefully it means I can get in the game even more. And it will give us some different structure options," he said.
This seems to coincide with his disposals per game increasing. His numbers from 2004 to 2006 were very impressive:
2004: 14.4 disposals (10.2 kicks; 4.2 handballs), 8.0 marks, 3.1 goals (1.6 behinds)
2005: 15.0 disposals (11.5 kicks; 3.5 handballs), 7.9 marks, 3.1 goals (1.6 behinds)
2006: 14.6 disposals (11.3 kicks; 3.3 handballs), 8.6 marks, 3.1 goals (1.5 behinds)
His tackle numbers were also very good and peaked higher than Tredrea, Riewoldt, and Brown during that period of time. From memory, his defensive pressure as a KPF was strong.
He actually won the AFL Coaches Association MVP in 2005. That's the same award Tredrea won the year prior. But you never hear people talk about Barry's 2005 like you do Warren's 2004. Both were All-Australian, won MVPs, kicked 80+ goals while getting plenty of the ball, and were pivotal contributors to premiership-winning teams.
So my question to you is in the thread title: how did prime Barry Hall compare to the other great CHFs? Both all-time and in that era.
Last edited:
so that’s a brain snap. Anybody who thinks Hall went out that night with a calculated thought of breaking a jaw needs to watch the incident over and compare it to Dennis Banks on Rhys Jones or vice a versa. They were calculated.
