Strategy How do we fix the forward line?

[dogwatch]

Unproductive and inefficient yet again tonight. Horribly so, in fact. Conditions were atrocious for most of the night but Adelaide still managed 9.9 from a smaller number of entries. Besides, this wasn't just a problem tonight, it's been a problem since at least last year.

Symptoms:

• Frequently win the i50s but lose the game
• Worst conversion rate in the league 2017-2018

I've said elsewhere that we need to unpick the whole forward line and start again. I'm not just talking about personnel although that's no doubt a big part of it. I'm also talking about structure, coaching, tactics, i50 delivery and set shot conversion.

I don't have any comprehensive solutions but here's where I'd start:

1. See if we can make a dominant marking KPF from one or two of the talls on our list. That means for the rest of 2018 playing 1-2 other players in the ruck all the time and letting Boyd be a KPF. Or if not Boyd then let Schache have a go and tell Boyd he's a ruckman (and an occasional 2nd tall on the forward line). To be honest I wouldn't even mind if we tried BOTH of them as permanent KPFs but that becomes a question of structure/tactics as much as personnel.
2. Recruit 2-3 specialist small forwards with a track record for consistent goal scoring and forward pressure. Maybe snare one from another AFL club, one from a state league and draft one from the junior ranks. This of course won't help us in 2018.
3. Whatever we do we need more than one dangerous forward. If we have only one it's too easy for the opposition to take him out of the game.
4. Revisit the overall effectiveness of our "high press" which results in a vacant forward line.
5. Find a good lead-up target so that we are less one-dimensional. Doesn't have to be a tall, but needs to be quick off the mark and have good hands. Must be able to convert of course. It could be someone already on our list but I suspect all those requirements disqualify almost everybody except perhaps Gowers. And so far he has not been a lead-up type.
6. Find a forward coach who can be a bit more creative and / or can implement effective patterns used at other clubs. Is that Hansen? On current form it doesn't appear so.
7. Get the midfield familiar with the various forward strategies we train for so that they can deliver accordingly. Sometimes it might be a lead-up, sometimes a 1-on-1 in the "paddock", sometimes a tall bringing the ball to ground for the (mythical) small forward and throw in a few Joe-the-Gooses for good measure. The delivery inside 50 can be as much a part of the malaise as what the forwards do with it once it arrives.
8. Send anyone who doesn't apply forward pressure back to the Magoos. Or better still, to Essendon.
9. Get serious about fixing up set shots in matches. Hawthorn did it. Let's not just shrug our shoulders and say it's too hard. A 10% improvement in accuracy could mean 3 extra wins over a season. It could mean the difference between 6th and 2nd on the ladder. It could even mean making a GF or not. Exhibit A: Jack Macrae, Spotless Stadium, September 2016.

That's just a few ideas off the top of the head. No doubt there will be many others and that's without yet trying to be creative (e.g. pre-planned switching of the ball, converting from throw-ins, running blocks on defenders etc).

We still seem to be stuck in the mentality of "the goals will take care of themselves".
They clearly won't and it's hurting us badly.

 

[Braybrook Son]

When Adams and Morris come back, Adams and/or Cordy go forward

 

[TMoney22]

Play a tap ruckman and implement some better stoppage plays. Stop bringing forwards up to the stoppage because our rucks are no good and we need extras at the stoppage.

Play "forwards" and let them settle

Mclean is our most crafty in the forward line, Wallis is our best kick for goal, play them more forward than midfield. Will only work if the other forwards are "forwards"

Let Dahlhaus do his best pressure work there

Teach the forwards how to make space for each other. Leading to an area that will open up space for the next forward, then gut run back and do it again and again.

 

[cherrypie]

I think the lack of consistency in the side has really hurt the forward line. Partly due to coaching and injuries.

Forwards can't learn together or gel as a unit when it changes every quarter every week.

Wood was trialled forward and moved back. Natural forwards like Dickson, Redpath and Schache have been unavailable due to suspension/injuries.

Then we have a whole bunch who rotate through such as Dunkley, JJ, Bont, Lipinski etc but outside of Gowers nobody actually plays a solidified role as a forward.

Compare it against the top scoring sides like Adelaide and West Coast who week in week out you know who the forwards are. Walker, Betts, Jenkins, McGovern... Darling, LeCras, Kennedy, Cripps etc.

Our forward line is just Gowers and whoever turns up at the time.

 

[dogwatch]

I think the lack of consistency in the side has really hurt the forward line. Partly due to coaching and injuries.

Forwards can't learn together or gel as a unit when it changes every quarter every week.

Wood was trialled forward and moved back. Natural forwards like Dickson, Redpath and Schache have been unavailable due to suspension/injuries.

Then we have a whole bunch who rotate through such as Dunkley, JJ, Bont, Lipinski etc but outside of Gowers nobody actually plays a solidified role as a forward.

Compare it against the top scoring sides like Adelaide and West Coast who week in week out you know who the forwards are. Walker, Betts, Jenkins, McGovern... Darling, LeCras, Kennedy, Cripps etc.

Our forward line is just Gowers and whoever turns up at the time.

Agree. I think the whole versatility thing has hurt us more than it's helped.

Good players (like Bont) will always succeed in a range of roles so versatility isn't a problem. So you can throw him forward and he can kick 4 goals. Others don't have the talent, the smarts or the physical characteristics to be so versatile. Let them just play their allocated role and stick at it.

 

[Braybrook Son]

Can we please try Campbell, (a proper ruck) for a couple of games at Etihad and have a proper forward structure? Cordy/Adams, Gowers and Boyd?

 

[DelRe]

Unproductive and inefficient yet again tonight. Horribly so, in fact. Conditions were atrocious for most of the night but Adelaide still managed 9.9 from a smaller number of entries. Besides, this wasn't just a problem tonight, it's been a problem since at least last year.

Symptoms:

• Frequently win the i50s but lose the game
• Worst conversion rate in the league 2017-2018

I've said elsewhere that we need to unpick the whole forward line and start again. I'm not just talking about personnel although that's no doubt a big part of it. I'm also talking about structure, coaching, tactics, i50 delivery and set shot conversion.

I don't have any comprehensive solutions but here's where I'd start:

1. See if we can make a dominant marking KPF from one or two of the talls on our list. That means for the rest of 2018 playing 1-2 other players in the ruck all the time and letting Boyd be a KPF. Or if not Boyd then let Schache have a go and tell Boyd he's a ruckman (and an occasional 2nd tall on the forward line). To be honest I wouldn't even mind if we tried BOTH of them as permanent KPFs but that becomes a question of structure/tactics as much as personnel.
2. Recruit 2-3 specialist small forwards with a track record for consistent goal scoring and forward pressure. Maybe snare one from another AFL club, one from a state league and draft one from the junior ranks. This of course won't help us in 2018.
3. Whatever we do we need more than one dangerous forward. If we have only one it's too easy for the opposition to take him out of the game.
4. Revisit the overall effectiveness of our "high press" which results in a vacant forward line.
5. Find a good lead-up target so that we are less one-dimensional. Doesn't have to be a tall, but needs to be quick off the mark and have good hands. Must be able to convert of course. It could be someone already on our list but I suspect all those requirements disqualify almost everybody except perhaps Gowers. And so far he has not been a lead-up type.
6. Find a forward coach who can be a bit more creative and / or can implement effective patterns used at other clubs. Is that Hansen? On current form it doesn't appear so.
7. Get the midfield familiar with the various forward strategies we train for so that they can deliver accordingly. Sometimes it might be a lead-up, sometimes a 1-on-1 in the "paddock", sometimes a tall bringing the ball to ground for the (mythical) small forward and throw in a few Joe-the-Gooses for good measure. The delivery inside 50 can be as much a part of the malaise as what the forwards do with it once it arrives.
8. Send anyone who doesn't apply forward pressure back to the Magoos. Or better still, to Essendon.
9. Get serious about fixing up set shots in matches. Hawthorn did it. Let's not just shrug our shoulders and say it's too hard. A 10% improvement in accuracy could mean 3 extra wins over a season. It could mean the difference between 6th and 2nd on the ladder. It could even mean making a GF or not. Exhibit A: Jack Macrae, Spotless Stadium, September 2016.

That's just a few ideas off the top of the head. No doubt there will be many others and that's without yet trying to be creative (e.g. pre-planned switching of the ball, converting from throw-ins, running blocks on defenders etc).

We still seem to be stuck in the mentality of "the goals will take care of themselves".
They clearly won't and it's hurting us badly.

Great post. Definitely agree with 1,2 and 3 (I really wish Boyd becomes that key forward but I’m not sure). 5 was Dickson - we miss him more than we realise I think. 6, 7 and 9 are the real mysteries that leave us scratching our heads every week. No better example of 9 than Betts this week.

 

[fronkalicious]

Our premiership forward line has literally disintegrated:

Picken, Dickson and smith may never play again.

Stringer is drinking and thieving his way out of the league.

Boyds gone into the ruck until English gets some hair on his balls.

Cordy’s gone back to his rightful position and is dominating back there.

Mclean has been converted into an inside mid.

I’ll write more in the Ground Zero thread, but we don’t currently have one forward I’m confident in pencilling in to our next finals team.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Didn’t Bev say the forward line will fix itself?

I love the guy but that statement still baffles me.

 

[The Inbetweener]

We could start by actually recruiting forwards.

Other than Lipinski, who looks set to be a midfielder, we haven’t drafted a genuine forward in the National draft since Stringer in 2012.

As a result of this and any forwards we do have being constantly injured (Smith, Dickson) we have to play midfielders there who don’t have any goal sense (josh Dunkley says hi).

Unlike Beveridge I don’t think this will just fix itself as it’s to do with the personnel and that’s no short term fix.

Richards looks fantastic and I’m not saying we shouldn’t have drafted him but as an example Jack Higgins probably filled a bigger need as a genuine forward.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Pace! We are amazingly slow. I think that's why JJ is spending a lot of time forward.

It's funny the amount of times I read that Crameri was needed last night. I think that's not true. He isn't what we are lacking at all.

A Charlie Cameron type would be ideal.

 

[lachy]

Given our list start playing actual forwards forward.

Boyd and Schahe as talls.

Lipinski as a mid size

Maclean and Bont 30 % forwad only as they deliver the ball well in there.

Daniel, Dale, Webb etc play as smalls who are also judged on pressure acts and movement

100 set shots per training session for all who play forward

So essentially structure in form of personnel and set up in the forward line and good deliverers on Ball

 

[Yojimbo]

Connection and balance are two of the issues that I feel lead to us being inept
in the forward half, our strengths become our weaknesses in the end. We are
or have become easy to play against and more importantly easy to set up
against. If you do the stats as I do before games you know which teams
methodologies will beat us yesterday my margin during the week was a 39
point loss I amended it to 22 points after their outs, but once again second
guessing the stats proved wrong.

 

[dergert]

It shits me that JJ was our most dangerous forward when I prefer him in defence.

 

[bullish23]

I think having Boyd in the ruck is completely pointless. He’s no better than Campbell there.

Every boundary throw in last night, and there were a million of them, Boyd was trying to tap from behind on Jacobs. Jacobs is no mug, but surely Boyd is more mobile than him.

For me it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul and makes both positions on the ground worse.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

I think having Boyd in the ruck is completely pointless. He’s no better than Campbell there.

Every boundary throw in last night, and there were a million of them, Boyd was trying to tap from behind on Jacobs. Jacobs is no mug, but surely Boyd is more mobile than him.

For me it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul and makes both positions on the ground worse.

Underselling Jacobs there. He's in the top 5 ruckman in the league. Thought Boyd battled well.

The issue with Campbell is that he offers almost nothing around the ground.

 

[bullish23]

Underselling Jacobs there. He's in the top 5 ruckman in the league. Thought Boyd battled well.

The issue with Campbell is that he offers almost nothing around the ground.

I wasn’t trying to undersell Jacobs. I agree he is top 5. Not saying Boyd didn’t battle well, but any upside he has on Campbell is negligible, and hurts the fwd line more.

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Next year when Libba is back and we recruit another midfeilder or 2.

I beleive we have small forwards on our list that are undervalued atm due to poor kicking and lack of structure and chemestry between them. Not having a decent TAP ruckman is also hurting is because our forwards are forced to push up the ground and defend/attack in numbers. We seem forced to outnumber opponents up the ground to win the territory battle which is fine and working well however up forward we are getting out numberd. all that will easily get fixed.

We have alot of potential fulltime small forwards in

. Dahl
. Wallace
. Picken
. Smith
. JJ
. Gowers
. Dale
. Dickson
.Lapinski

Its not as bad as ehat everyone thinks so relax.

We need polish with footskills and we need 1 or 2 quick aboriginals on our list that we have not had for over 4 years now. ( only team in AFL to.not have an aboriginal player odd)


recruit a decent forward coach and pump experience into the young players so they learn eaxh others weakneses. Our list is not as bad as what everyone thinks. So relax it was always going tobe an experimental year

 

[Hard Ball Get]

I wasn’t trying to undersell Jacobs. I agree he is top 5. Not saying Boyd didn’t battle well, but any upside he has on Campbell is negligible, and hurts the fwd line more.

Then I think you're over stating Campbell or underselling Boyd.
With Boyd, English and Rough, Big TC will find it tough.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Didn’t Bev say the forward line will fix itself?

I love the guy but that statement still baffles me.

Maybe he was doing a Macca impression?

"Crack in at the contest and the rest will take care of itself."

 

[bullish23]

Then I think you're over stating Campbell or underselling Boyd.
With Boyd, English and Rough, Big TC will find it tough.

Or you are underselling Campbell and oversellling Boyd’s ruck work

Difference of opinion, let’s leave it there

 

[theburst]

Starting this week get most mids, all forwards to stay after training and have 100 set shot kicks, all angles, any conditions.

We're no.1 Marks Inside 50, but being 18th in accuracy makes it useless getting in there so often.

Scoreboard pressure keeps the energy high in the team.

One of many examples last night, Hunter in first quarter. Great play got him the mark and straight-forward set shot, but we blame the wet ball and conditions for him missing everything.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Or you are underselling Campbell and oversellling Boyd’s ruck work

Difference of opinion, let’s leave it there

Well obviously.

 

[ScragCity]

Just get it in there and the goals will take care of themselves

 

[TMoney22]

The issue with Campbell is that he offers almost nothing around the ground.

Your right Campbell offers nothing around the ground, but this thinking that roughy and boyd are much better around the ground is bulldust. they may be a tiny bit better but there is no impact on the game. English definitely does so for me either english plays or campbell. campbell can negate oppositions ruck work and break even, he may not tap the ball to our mids but at least other teams cant execute stoppage set plays.
Campbell can take a mark as good as roughy so if english isnt playing campbell must and boyd stays forward and backs them up.