How have the Swans continually escaped critique and criticism for their lack of success in the VFL/AFL?

[Ticky009]

neither of those were hawthorn specific though
(and I would argue we lost more than gained out of free agency - look at the largesse given to Melbourne and now Kangaroos for example cf what we got for Buddy whose contract still was larger than anyone since - despite the so called "power to amend anomalous compensation")
though I do remember Buddy's contract being publicised, why has McKay's not been made public?

Not to get off topic but I'd its because the AFL has matured somewhat, only a little bit but it has matured. Buddy was amongst the first and by far the biggest FA signing. AFL house responded in a very immature way that is well documented due to their micromanaging obsession.

I'm all for Free Agency salaries to become publicised, let's start with that and perhaps finally the industry will be mature about it and not get lost in the hyperbole. Unfortunately, not sure the AFL Players association will ever vote it in.

 

[RUNVS]

Not to get off topic but I'd its because the AFL has matured somewhat, only a little bit but it has matured. Buddy was amongst the first and by far the biggest FA signing. AFL house responded in a very immature way that is well documented due to their micromanaging obsession.

I'm all for Free Agency salaries to become publicised, let's start with that and perhaps finally the industry will be mature about it and not get lost in the hyperbole. Unfortunately, not sure the AFL Players association will ever vote it in.

I think all contracts should be published as it would help equalisation a lot of player A looks at player B's contract and thinks "why am I not earning that, I am as good as player B" and as a result they will be more likely to move clubs to earn what player B is earning.

Also government salaries are all available, my salary is online and easily looked up, so I am not sure I buy the privacy issue when it comes to salaries.

 

[Dazb86]

They were a few free kicks away from being champions in 2016 apparently

 

[Zevon]

They were a few free kicks away from being champions in 2016 apparently

 

[RUNVS]

They were a few free kicks away from being champions in 2016 apparently

Yep, nothing dodgy going on

 

[LightTower4]

Yep, nothing dodgy going on

Decades ago in the Herald (or was it the Sun) there used to be a weekly competition of put an 'X' where the ball is and you could win a big prize of maybe $10.
Is that what this is?

 

[werdna78]

Sydney were bad for a long time. Won a premiership, built a good culture.

They avoid criticism, because there are a few clubs with bigger failures and they are not in Melbourne being subjected to Vicbias.

 

[Dangerousfield]

St Kilda seems to be forever copping it for only winning 1 flag in their history.

The Bulldogs for their overall lack of success and premierships.

Freo for never winning anything.

Geelong (prior to 2007) for their long premiership drought and continued failures.

Melbourne (prior to 2021) for their long premiership drought

Collingwood for all their Grand Final losses.


Yet, it seems like no one has ever really cared much about the Swan’s far from impressive footballing history.

No one ever really mentioned their 72-year premiership drought until it was broken.

No one talks about the fact that they have only won 5 out of 18 Grand Finals (a strike rate far worse than Collingwood, who are perennially laughed at).



What is the explanation for this phenomenon?



The only thing I can think of, is that many of us, unconsciously and incorrectly, think of them as being one of the new interstate clubs, whilst disregarding their entire South Melbourne history.

Does this explain it? Or is there more to it?

What have Carlton done in the AFL era? Plenty of cheating, plenty of Spoons, plenty of mediocrity, plenty of arrogance - and all that from a club moneyed and in AFL heartland.

I'd suggest the Swans have done a fantastic job the last 30 years in a very hostile environment and grown the game considerably there.

Piss poor thread.

 

[rapidfire7]

What have Carlton done in the AFL era? Plenty of cheating, plenty of Spoons, plenty of mediocrity, plenty of arrogance - and all that from a club moneyed and in AFL heartland.

I'd suggest the Swans have done a fantastic job the last 30 years in a very hostile environment and grown the game considerably there.

Piss poor thread.

I was talking about the Swan's entire history. Not the past 30 years, which I agree have been very good.. I don't know how I could have made it any clearer.

 

[Mr Meow]

I will I am Born in the 1980s....

But I have been a Freo supporter since late 2001- early 2002.

I say the best time to be Born a freo supporter would be between 1995-2005. At least if you are aged 10-15 years old, you at least saw the 2010 and 2012-15 finals years.

Sorry my post was tongue in cheek. That was the best Freo side so far, but the best chance of seeing a Freo premiership in your lifetime is any time in the future - those who start supporting now are lucky, as they're better covered in case a premiership takes another generation to arrive.

 

[Freomaniac]

As a Freo supporter, I'd give my right arm for the Swan's success.

Especially if that success was from 1996-2016

 

[Caligo]

Decades ago in the Herald (or was it the Sun) there used to be a weekly competition of put an 'X' where the ball is and you could win a big prize of maybe $10.
Is that what this is?

The ball is behind the dog's right calf yeah?

 

[Swanssince91]

John Longmire deserves a lot more criticism than anyone or any factor associated with the South Melbourne/Sydney Swans per se imo

Rich coming from a carlton supporter

 

[Engimal v3]

There's an element of luck in actually winning a premiership. Swans have been around the mark most years, for ages.

Maybe their supporters would like more flags to show for it (and who wouldn't?), but I'd say the Swans last 20 years have been pretty good.

 

[Swanssince91]

There's an element of luck in actually winning a premiership. Swans have been around the mark most years, for ages.

Maybe their supporters would like more flags to show for it (and who wouldn't?), but I'd say the Swans last 20 years have been pretty good.

You definitely need the luck
Allir Allir got injured and missed the 2016 grand final, he was in great form leading up to that.
Callum Mills injured his hamstring and wasn't right for the gf.
With these two and better umpiring we may have won

 

[Eshay187]

I’m pretty content being a Swans fan. Thanks for the concern, but it ain’t that bad.

 

[blackus]

The swans are the least of the AFLs worries in terms of success. I would much rather be a swans supporter than a Freo, Port or Adelaide supporter – clubs from the traditional AFL states that have done absolutely bugger all in comparison to a team that plugs away in a non AFL state and continually contends and shows way more spirit and guts.

 

[FrustratedTiger]

Given they were considered enough of a failure that they were shipped interstate, I think considerable pressure was on the Swans. But once you win one, it all goes away. I lived 1983-2016 and they were long, long years but BAM, win a flag and they're forgotten.

 

[LightTower4]

The ball is behind the dog's right calf yeah?

The X had to be in the EXACT centre of the footy.
The definition of centre being the middle point of a circle or sphere, equidistant from every point on the circumference or surface.
Explains why I never won it.

 

[Caligo]

The X had to be in the EXACT centre of the footy.
The definition of centre being the middle point of a circle or sphere, equidistant from every point on the circumference or surface.
Explains why I never won it.

Ah. That would be challenging and fun. Less so now with modelling software.

 

[Call Me Cake]

They've won a flag each in the last two decades prior. Usually if your team can manage a flag a decade you'll get more leniency. I can imagine if they go the 20's (and/or 30's) without a flag the heat would turn up.

 

[Freomaniac]

The swans are the least of the AFLs worries in terms of success. I would much rather be a swans supporter than a Freo, Port or Adelaide supporter – clubs from the traditional AFL states that have done absolutely bugger all in comparison to a team that plugs away in a non AFL state and continually contends and shows way more spirit and guts.

You are probably right....

Saying that both WA clubs are struggling.

Eagles are in for a long rebuild

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Sydney's definitely underachieved. They've been the most successful team since the 90's to make a final appearance, but have only won 2 premierships out of 7 Grand Final appearances since 1996.

 

[Cyclops]

Sydney were bad for a long time. Won a premiership, built a good culture.

We keep getting told how good Sydney's culture is, "no dickheads". This was the club with Barry Hall at FF and Buddy Franklin crashing his car and suffering mystery injuries. Its utter garbage marketing lies.

Generally Sydney have made it to finals on the back of some appalling travesties involving massive contracts, flagrant tribunal injustice and general ****ery.

They avoid criticism, because there are a few clubs with bigger failures and they are not in Melbourne being subjected to Vicbias.

Sydney enjoy a very high level of direct and indirect AFL and media support "for the good of the game".

Sydney's definitely underachieved. They've been the most successful team since the 90's to make a final appearance, but have only won 2 premierships out of 7 Grand Final appearances since 1996.

They're in a tough spot. They experience a lot of direct AFL interference, guys in suits with NFI keen to prove they "widened the demographic" and "achieved market penetration".

Brisbane experienced some of that, the AFL set them up in a ridiculously weak position and they toiled to make finals under their own steam with a much worse #VICBIAS than these days. They did it, they built a finals side. Then Fitzroy goes bust and the geniuses at AFL House decided Brisbane had to wear Fitzroy's jumper, like putting the flayed skin of a dead animal on a stray dog so people would think it hadn't gone extinct.

Brisbane put up with all that, went straight to the bottom, but they kept playing the cards they were dealt and succeeded fairly under the rules. They got COLA like Sydney, but less for some reason? The AFLs "reasoning" was transparently dishonest, it was about funneling advantage to Sydney, but Brisbane were smart enough to make it work for them.

The price of success? Collingwood led a charge to rip away all Brisbane's assistance in one year, their list melted down and they fell down the ladder. They are back again because the AFL stayed out of Brisbane's business. That is a club with a sound admin and good culture: problem players like Aker and Beams have been given chances but turfed when they went too far. Compare with Sydney where travesties like Hall were protected and lauded.

If the AFL left Sydney alone, gave them a small sensible advantage like recruitment or a small cap boost for local players, and a decent administration to run the show they could have been another Brisbane. instead, AFL suits have tampered relentlessly, come up with new and amazing ways to assist but haven't let the Swans run their own show.

So Sydney have had extraordinary resources poured into them (like GWS are now) and its propelled them into finals, where they generally have lacked the character to succeed without bizarre umpiring and tribunal decisions. GWS will be the same unless the AFL backs out and lets them build their own administration and culture.

I feel sorry for them.

 

[Obeanie1]

Decades ago in the Herald (or was it the Sun) there used to be a weekly competition of put an 'X' where the ball is and you could win a big prize of maybe $10.
Is that what this is?

Nah. Just one example of why the AFL formally appologised to the Swans on how poor the umpiring was in that game.

It was a disgrace.

Then again karma is a b!tch. AFL had been propping up the Swans with COLA and providing the extra cash, let Barry Hall play in the 2005 GF. So you cant win them all