Unsolved Hunt for Mr Cruel

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Wasn't this solved a while back GG.exe ? Hes dead isn't he?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Wasn't this solved a while back GG.exe ? Hes dead isn't he?

It's never been solved as far as I'm aware. Got a link to that?

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

It's never been solved as far as I'm aware. Got a link to that?

I remember seeing an interview with a cop in charge or part of this case and he said their prime suspect (he was sure it was Mr.Cruel) died in the early or mid 90's. Ill try and find it.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

1. Iddles revealed that the offender's lair "in the lounge room had a chunky pine lounge suite". This is significant as previously no information about the lounge room of Mr Cruel's lair had been revealed by police or journalists.
2. He stated that, in the bathroom of the lair, "the basin was very close to the toilet". This contradicts previous information from published accounts of Mr Cruel's bathroom as they all stated the bathroom did not contain a toilet, but that the toilet was located in a different room next to the bathroom (it is unclear what the reason for this contradiction is).
3. In relation to his Eltham suspect, who he talked about on the Australian True Crime podcast in July 2020, he stated that the person who told him about his Eltham suspect was a "well-known criminal" and "well-known to police" who told Iddles this information when he was dying of cancer in "about 2000 or 2001" (ie not Chopper Read as some had speculated as the latter died in 2013) (this year was not revealed in the ATC interview).
4. He stated that the Eltham suspect died in 1992, (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
5. He described the Eltham suspect as "someone who from time to time crossdressed", (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
6. The photo of the Eltham suspect "was shown to Karmein Chan's mum and the father, but they couldn't identify him", (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
7. The suspect "ran his own business which he was very successful in", (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
8. He mentions other attacks that were atrributed to Mr Cruel in "southern Melbourne, down around Sandringam, Brighton". He said there were 12 attacks in total and that in these other 8 attacks the perpetrator was "always wearing a black balaclava". "So, there were probably 12 that you might attribute to him, but definitely the last 4", (these attacks have been written about previously by journalists such as Keith Moor and John Silvester, but the suburb of Sandringham wasn't mentioned - of course he doesn't actually state that an attack occurred in Sandringham).
9. He stated about one of these earlier attacks that "it's a vacant house that's up for sale. There was no forced entry so how did he get access? And there were questions about could he be a real estate agent, but the way in which he cleaned up, the MO was nearly identical, so that is why all of those cases were put in...a basket. He might have started in 1985 and you're looking at about every 6 or 8 months for an attack...they were very, very similar". (This may refer to the Hampton sexual assault of a 14 year old girl which has been written about previously by Keith Moor and John Silvester. However, the information about the house being a vacant house up for sale is new. It is probably the same attack as what Keith Moor describes in his 13 April 2013 article for the Herald Sun in which he stated: ""One of these suspected attacks was on a 14-year-old girl who was abducted from her Hampton home in Melbourne's southern suburbs in 1985. She was tied, gagged and blindfolded before being driven to a vacant building site and assaulted. The scared and scarred schoolgirl was dumped at the nearby Moorabbin Bowl on the Nepean Highway at 2:10am, nearly five hours after being kidnapped."

 

[Exe Gesis]

All similar locations, Bega.

 

[metic]

I remember seeing an interview with a cop in charge or part of this case and he said their prime suspect (he was sure it was Mr.Cruel) died in the early or mid 90's. Ill try and find it.

the alleged culprit was named as norm Lee and there's a bit of info if you scroll back on this thread.
it is far from solved though

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

The case hasnt been solved as such. There are a number of potential suspects. Also that reddit post above, only months ago, opens the possibility of another suspect or two (father and son).

By the way....child abductors/raoists/killers....turn on TV and an Aussie True Crime documentary on Derek Percy (1960s) convicted child killer and arguably linked to Wanda abd Beumont killings.

In the same country NSW, happened to wrb surf into Leslie Camilleri, convicted child killer, "Bega School Girl Killings" and murder of Prue Bird too.

the alleged culprit was named as norm Lee and there's a bit of info if you scroll back on this thread.
it is far from solved though

Fair enough, I watched that vid a while ago now. I just remember him saying his prime suspect died and then the kipnappings stopped. Made sense to me.

 

[Kurve]

Mods feel free to move my last couple of posts to a new thread about Derek Percy.

That TV show made it out like there was hardly any evidence linking Percy to multiple other high profile child killings, but this PDF file of a court document shows there was damning/obvious evidence that Percy was responsible for all those deaths....Wanda, Beaumont, and others

Coroner's Court PDF[/url[

We have a thread here for DEREK PERCY

He's also been mentioned a few times on the BEAUMONT CHILDREN thread

 

[Bunk Moreland]

1. Iddles revealed that the offender's lair "in the lounge room had a chunky pine lounge suite". This is significant as previously no information about the lounge room of Mr Cruel's lair had been revealed by police or journalists.
2. He stated that, in the bathroom of the lair, "the basin was very close to the toilet". This contradicts previous information from published accounts of Mr Cruel's bathroom as they all stated the bathroom did not contain a toilet, but that the toilet was located in a different room next to the bathroom (it is unclear what the reason for this contradiction is).
3. In relation to his Eltham suspect, who he talked about on the Australian True Crime podcast in July 2020, he stated that the person who told him about his Eltham suspect was a "well-known criminal" and "well-known to police" who told Iddles this information when he was dying of cancer in "about 2000 or 2001" (ie not Chopper Read as some had speculated as the latter died in 2013) (this year was not revealed in the ATC interview).
4. He stated that the Eltham suspect died in 1992, (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
5. He described the Eltham suspect as "someone who from time to time crossdressed", (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
6. The photo of the Eltham suspect "was shown to Karmein Chan's mum and the father, but they couldn't identify him", (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
7. The suspect "ran his own business which he was very successful in", (this was not revealed in the ATC interview).
8. He mentions other attacks that were atrributed to Mr Cruel in "southern Melbourne, down around Sandringam, Brighton". He said there were 12 attacks in total and that in these other 8 attacks the perpetrator was "always wearing a black balaclava". "So, there were probably 12 that you might attribute to him, but definitely the last 4", (these attacks have been written about previously by journalists such as Keith Moor and John Silvester, but the suburb of Sandringham wasn't mentioned - of course he doesn't actually state that an attack occurred in Sandringham).
9. He stated about one of these earlier attacks that "it's a vacant house that's up for sale. There was no forced entry so how did he get access? And there were questions about could he be a real estate agent, but the way in which he cleaned up, the MO was nearly identical, so that is why all of those cases were put in...a basket. He might have started in 1985 and you're looking at about every 6 or 8 months for an attack...they were very, very similar". (This may refer to the Hampton sexual assault of a 14 year old girl which has been written about previously by Keith Moor and John Silvester. However, the information about the house being a vacant house up for sale is new. It is probably the same attack as what Keith Moor describes in his 13 April 2013 article for the Herald Sun in which he stated: ""One of these suspected attacks was on a 14-year-old girl who was abducted from her Hampton home in Melbourne's southern suburbs in 1985. She was tied, gagged and blindfolded before being driven to a vacant building site and assaulted. The scared and scarred schoolgirl was dumped at the nearby Moorabbin Bowl on the Nepean Highway at 2:10am, nearly five hours after being kidnapped."

Pretty sure the Eltham suspect was Normie Lee.

Part of it was he lived and moved around his local area around Flemington etc, where his home and business were, but I think it was discovered he also owned a house in Eltham.

 

[utility]

Norman Leon “Chops” Lee (1949-1992) - Find a...

Dim sum maker Norman Lee, wearing a Michael Jackson mask, was 43, when he died in a shootout with police during an a holdup at the Melbourne airport. ------ The Great Bookie Robbery is one of the most daring and dazzling robberies in modern history and Australian crime folklore. The robbery...

www.findagrave.com

 

[justlookingaround]

Is Norman Lee wearing a Michael Jackson mask here?...

edit - well, if I'd read another 3 lines of the article I would've answered my own question.
Still, leaving this here because wtf....

 

[johnymac1]

Hasn't been much on Mr Cruel lately, Maybe I've missed something.
Melbourne Marvels did an update a while ago.

Melbourne Marvels

A place where we talk about fascinating stuff that has happened in the Melbourne area.

melbinmarvels.com

Check it out

 

[footy75]

Did Normy Lee allegedy admit he did it to someone before dying?

 

[metic]

Hasn't been much on Mr Cruel lately, Maybe I've missed something.
Melbourne Marvels did an update a while ago.

Melbourne Marvels

A place where we talk about fascinating stuff that has happened in the Melbourne area.

melbinmarvels.com

Check it out

thanks, that was quite interesting about the name errors. Mr careful / cruel / cool

 

[johnymac1]

Melbourne Marvels has dug up this early doco featuring Brian Elkner.

Some of Brians language displays signs of him having OCD. He is soft spoken and rambles a bit. Traits of Mr Cruel?

check it out-

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Melbourne Marvels has dug up this early doco featuring Brian Elkner.

Some of Brians language displays signs of him having OCD. He is soft spoken and rambles a bit. Traits of Mr Cruel?

check it out-

Good find. Shame this sack of shit is the one the ABC went to to highlight probably the most dangerous fascist movement we’ve had on our shores. Heaven forbid they interview someone with a slight accent, we’ll go with a stammering rapist instead

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Did Normy Lee allegedy admit he did it to someone before dying?

All that is known about it is in the episode “The Mr Cruel Triangle”, on Andrew Rule’s Life And Crimes podcast.

Iddles has relayed the story before but obviously gave Rule the go-ahead to name names.

Alfie Gay was a career criminal that Iddles knew quite well and spoke to regularly following his (Gay’s) “retirement”.

Iddles said around 20 years ago that Gay told him he was dying of cancer and wanted to get the identity of Mr Cruel off his chest: it was his former armed robbery colleague, Normie Lee.

I don't think it was actually detailed that Lee confessed it to Gay... It may have just been a hunch of his that he compiled as he got to know Lee and his apparent perversions.

Gay told Iddles that on multiple occasions he met Lee in Eltham, usually in a pub or supermarket carpark, to exchange cash or discuss jobs. On one occasion Lee took Gay to his nearby house, which was a street or two away. The house had a garage at the end of the drive that had been converted to a granny flat.

This all came as a massive surprise to Iddles - Lee and his associates were lifelong inhabitants of the north-west... That's where they lived, worked and socialised. Nobody had any clue that Lee also had a house in Eltham.

Iddles and Gay attempted to re-trace the short trip from the Eltham town centre to the house in question... Gay wasn't even sure it was the right street, though he could narrow it down. He'd only been there once, taken by Lee, in the dark, decades earlier.

They looked around and Gay couldn't finger the house, saying it may have been demolished and replaced in the years since.

Eltham is under a busy flight path which added to the story.

Iddles reported it to the appropriate police. Gay passed away.



My take on it... I certainly think all this happened, that is to say, Iddles is not making it up. But I doubt it was much more than a theory of Gay's. It may well make Lee a suspect, but not sure there's much else to it... Gay clearly had no actual evidence to back up his theory.

 

[GreyCrow]

Iddles and Gay attempted to re-trace the short trip from the Eltham town centre to the house in question... Gay wasn't even sure it was the right street, though he could narrow it down. He'd only been there once, taken by Lee, in the dark, decades earlier.

Ah huh . Property records should be available

I would have thought some areas would have been targeted anyway and house records analysed

It read like Alfie was indeed putting 2 + 2 = 6 or he could have been deflecting away from himself

 

[windchimes]

All that is known about it is in the episode “The Mr Cruel Triangle”, on Andrew Rule’s Life And Crimes podcast.

Iddles has relayed the story before but obviously gave Rule the go-ahead to name names.

Alfie Gay was a career criminal that Iddles knew quite well and spoke to regularly following his (Gay’s) “retirement”.

Iddles said around 20 years ago that Gay told him he was dying of cancer and wanted to get the identity of Mr Cruel off his chest: it was his former armed robbery colleague, Normie Lee.

I don't think it was actually detailed that Lee confessed it to Gay... It may have just been a hunch of his that he compiled as he got to know Lee and his apparent perversions.

Gay told Iddles that on multiple occasions he met Lee in Eltham, usually in a pub or supermarket carpark, to exchange cash or discuss jobs. On one occasion Lee took Gay to his nearby house, which was a street or two away. The house had a garage at the end of the drive that had been converted to a granny flat.

This all came as a massive surprise to Iddles - Lee and his associates were lifelong inhabitants of the north-west... That's where they lived, worked and socialised. Nobody had any clue that Lee also had a house in Eltham.

Iddles and Gay attempted to re-trace the short trip from the Eltham town centre to the house in question... Gay wasn't even sure it was the right street, though he could narrow it down. He'd only been there once, taken by Lee, in the dark, decades earlier.

They looked around and Gay couldn't finger the house, saying it may have been demolished and replaced in the years since.

Eltham is under a busy flight path which added to the story.

Iddles reported it to the appropriate police. Gay passed away.



My take on it... I certainly think all this happened, that is to say, Iddles is not making it up. But I doubt it was much more than a theory of Gay's. It may well make Lee a suspect, but not sure there's much else to it... Gay clearly had no actual evidence to back up his theory.

I, in my novice opinion of course, have never believed the Norman Lee story.

I doubt Iddles is lying but someone somewhere in the chain clearly was, or was merely speculating as you say. Lee doesn’t match the sandy hair and eye brows depicted in the sketch of the Lower Plenty attack, nor the face shape. The Sharon Wills sketch also gives a description of the offenders eyes in which they are clearly a classic anglo, round shape as opposed to Lee’s genetically East Asian eyes.

I also highly doubt if Lee was the offender, who clearly went to the notorious extreme lengths to cover all of his traces and conceal his identity would let it slip to a casual criminal acquaintance like Gay, given how unkindly pedophiles are taken to in regular crook circles.

The ‘Sierra’ files that were declassified a while ago are probably clearest and strongest pool of suspects and you'd think if it was someone who was investigated and known to the police who committed these offences it’d likely be one of those seven referred to in them.

 

[johnymac1]

I, in my novice opinion of course, have never believed the Norman Lee story.

I doubt Iddles is lying but someone somewhere in the chain clearly was, or was merely speculating as you say. Lee doesn’t match the sandy hair and eye brows depicted in the sketch of the Lower Plenty attack, nor the face shape. The Sharon Wills sketch also gives a description of the offenders eyes in which they are clearly a classic anglo, round shape as opposed to Lee’s genetically East Asian eyes.

I also highly doubt if Lee was the offender, who clearly went to the notorious extreme lengths to cover all of his traces and conceal his identity would let it slip to a casual criminal acquaintance like Gay, given how unkindly pedophiles are taken to in regular crook circles.

The ‘Sierra’ files that were declassified a while ago are probably clearest and strongest pool of suspects and you'd think if it was someone who was investigated and known to the police who committed these offences it’d likely be one of those seven referred to in them.

I do agree, although Norman had access to the guns.

 

[Flog111]

I don’t see it being Lee either. A tough nut bank robber doesn’t fit the child rapist profile. I’d assume the culprit would be a loner and very reserved.

It would be very hard to rob a bank if you were very quiet and not intimidating. This is just a theory.


But the careful planning of the heist does point a finger at him.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I don’t see it being Lee either. A tough nut bank robber doesn’t fit the child rapist profile. I’d assume the culprit would be a loner and very reserved.

It would be very hard to rob a bank if you were very quiet and not intimidating. This is just a theory.


But the careful planning of the heist does point a finger at him.

What you’re describing is a better fit for the FBI profile.

Of course, these profiles have been wrong before.

https://www.theage.com.au/interactive/2016/fbi.pdf