Opinion Hypothetical, Back to pre nationalisation. What's your opinion?

[Choogler]

That was 40 years ago, it'd be completely different now, even then the AFL lost approx 2/3 of Fitzroy fans (this was rumored to be regretted shortly after by the then HQ) - most Fitzroy fans are now gone from the game or follow Fitzroy in the VAFA (Bris and Fitz was never a true 'merger' Roylion has the facts on this)

In 198 the Fitzroy board asked the player to vote on a relocation to Brisbane. When the players voted to go the Board reneged. Right there and then Fitzroy's long future as an VFL/AFL club was sealed.

History has shown fans don't go for relocations or mergers. North were proposed to relocate to GC in 2007, their members emphatically rejected the proposal.

Hawks / Demons merger, punch on and warring factions from fans and admin from both clubs. Was emphatically rejected in the end

Probably in part the reason the NRL doesn't have the same fan numbers as the AFL

EPL clubs are NOT member based like AFL clubs. That's where you're failing on this, the game really is dictated by us fans 'the market'.

"The market", what is that? In every market there is a buyer (fan/supporter/member), a seller (the footy club), and a product (footy match experience, memberships, seats, merchandise etc...). "Products" succeed or fail based on supply and demand and it is clear that there is insufficient demand to make the product offered by NM, WB, Melbourne or StK viable. ie: "The market" you mention just isn't buying. That is indisputable!

Aus footy is completely different to other domestic leagues, the clubs are member based. That is why the north relocation and the hawks / dees merger failed, and failed miserably.

I live in Perth, so your point is moot.

If teams are member based, then it is up to those members to make their teams viable, not the governing body. The fact that NM, WB, Melbourne and StK would not have turned a single profit in more than a decade without AFL prop-up funding is a clear message that the membership numbers are inadequate to keep those clubs viable... It also applies to some interstate clubs .... GC, GWS, Sydney & BL and I fear Tassie Devils will also be a long term dependent club. But at least the northern clubs, particularly GC & GWS are growing the game and the player base in non-traditional areas, by bringing kids that may have gone to NRL and other sports, into the AFL system. I'm not sure the same can be said for the 4 vic-based clubs.

Thing is though, if you have the biggest clubs that'd mean that the fans and members of those big clubs wouldn't get to see their clubs play as often as they would if they stayed in their own state.

Any National competition in any competition in any country in the world requires travel with fans unable to watch every game. It is the consequence of any true National competition, and even in the AFL, the supporters in the AFL heartland of Victoria will be able to watch their teams more often than those in the other states. That is not a whinge or criticism, just a fact based on the distribution of teams, although as you are aware, I do believe there needs to be less teams in Melbourne. It would create a more equal fixture with more teams playing each other H&A and hence provide some level of equalisation of the travel burden.

 

[Roylion]

In 198 the Fitzroy board asked the player to vote on a relocation to Brisbane. When the players voted to go the Board reneged. Right there and then Fitzroy's long future as an VFL/AFL club was sealed.

You can only say that with hindsight. Fitzroy made a profit from 1993-1995.

Fitzroy chairman Dyson Hore-Lacy said if they could have found another million dollars ($500,000 to be used to improve facilities in a move back to the Brunswick St Oval as their training and administrative base and $500,000 to pay players to improve their playing list), Fitzroy would not have sought a merger with North Melbourne.

Unfortunately every attempt to generate that revenue by Fitzroy was stymied by the AFL who wanted to keep financial pressure on Fitzroy, so that Port Adelaide's AFL entry in 1997 would still only keep the league at 16 teams.

Current Brisbane Lions CEO Greg Swann was one of the people working for Fitzroy's administrator Michael Brennan in 1996 on discharging Fitzroy's $2.7 million debt and publicly stated in August 2014 that Fitzroy could have 'easily been retained' in the AFL competition had there been the will by the AFL to do so.

The AFL had $12 million to spare in 1996 to give to clubs that merged, yet couldn't find $1 million to help Fitzroy.

Had they done so then Fitzroy would have very likely survived the era of AFL rationalisation where it was official AFL policy to remove a small Melbourne club to make room for Port Adelaide and keep the competition at 16 teams.

I do believe there needs to be less teams in Melbourne. It would create a more equal fixture with more teams playing each other H&A and hence provide some level of equalisation of the travel burden.

Expanding the competition to 20-22 teams will do the same thing.

 

[Carringbush2010]

"The market", what is that?

The paying fans and members, largest portion of that, more than all other footy heartland combined is vic.

"The market" you mention just isn't buying. That is indisputable!

The continuing record amounts of members and attendances disagrees with you.

If teams are member based, then it is up to those members to make their teams viable,

They are viable, like I said the smallest vic club has 50k members

The fact that NM, WB, Melbourne and StK would not have turned a single profit in more than a decade without AFL prop-up funding is a clear message that the membership numbers are inadequate to keep those clubs viable

See above, if you are correct then why do the AFL want to keep those clubs surviving? Answer, they don't want to lose those fans

Any National competition in any competition in any country in the world requires travel with fans unable to watch every game. It is the consequence of any true National competition,

Then have your national comp, that national comp does not have to include foundation vfl clubs. Create franchise clubs out of vic if you must.