Society/Culture I support free speech, unless it offends me

[Long Live HFC]

I agree choice is a no-brainer.
The bigger elephant in the room is giving choice to the father, i.e. equal weight to the father's choice, not having him decide solely

when men carry the foetus i'm sure that's a debate we can have.

 

[kfc1]

when men carry the foetus i'm sure that's a debate we can have.

Disagree - it takes two people to create it and takes two people to care for it, so those two people should be involved in any decision about its life
the foetus is only a few months of a lifetime

 

[clogged]

when men carry the foetus i'm sure that's a debate we can have.

I think the debate is that if a man wants a kid and a woman doesn't, the woman's choice to have it supersedes it (which is fine in my view), but if a man doesn't want a kid and the woman does, the man is still forced to support it. And the kicker is, he's still forced to support it even if it isn't biologically his (i.e. she's cuckolded him).

 

[kfc1]

A suggested arrangement for abortion:

1. neither parent wants - baby is aborted
2. father wants, mother doesn't want - baby is aborted
3. father doesn't want, mother does - baby is aborted OR mother has right to have baby but father has no legal, financial or otherwise responsibility or rights for the baby
4. both parents want baby - proceed as normal

this is, in fact, a compromise as the mother's decision not to have an abortion is given priority over the father's wish to have one, however given that motherhood is still a taboo in society it seems reasonable to put up for discussion

An arrangement where both parents have equal decision weight would see the baby aborted unless both father and mother want it.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I agree choice is a no-brainer.
The bigger elephant in the room is giving choice to the father, i.e. equal weight to the father's choice, not having him decide solely

Good point. If the mother wants the baby but the father doesn't, does he get to sign a stat dec declaring he have no play or say in the child's welfare nor financial responsibilities to the child?

Likewise if the father wants if but the mother doesn't - does the mother sign a stat dec and simply become a surrogate, handing the baby over when it comes to term and that's it for her legal/financial responsibilities toward the child?

 

[Long Live HFC]

I think the debate is that if a man wants a kid and a woman doesn't, the woman's choice to have it supersedes it (which is fine in my view), but if a man doesn't want a kid and the woman does, the man is still forced to support it. And the kicker is, he's still forced to support it even if it isn't biologically his (i.e. she's cuckolded him).

that's just tough t***ies i'm afraid.

 

[clogged]

that's just tough t***ies i'm afraid.

Why should a man be forced to raise a child that isn't biologically his?

 

[Power Raid]

Disagree - it takes two people to create it and takes two people to care for it, so those two people should be involved in any decision about its life
the foetus is only a few months of a lifetime

Blokes blowing their load is hardly equal contribution to a women's biological contribution. Then consider the social, economic and psychological issues that would need to be considered if a women is forced by the man to have the child. It effectively provides the man with the power of veto.

Further the risk of your suggestion, would also have to completely change our legal precedents and this in turn would challenge the legality of abortions. As the question is, are we debating a life or is the foetus property. If it is a life, then that changes our legal treatment.

I would suggest if you do not trust and respect the women's judgement and decision making, you are with the wrong women.

 

[Power Raid]

Why should a man be forced to raise a child that isn't biologically his?

If it was "accepted" as his by him after it became known, then yes he should continue that support. but certainly not under circumstances where there has been deceit or a failure to declare.

 

[clogged]

If it was "accepted" as his by him after it became known, then yes he should continue that support. but certainly not under circumstances where there has been deceit or a failure to declare.

That acceptance has only come via fraud. Any other contract you enter into where the other party knowingly withholds information or lies is declared invalid.

 

[Power Raid]

That acceptance has only come via fraud. Any other contract you enter into where the other party knowingly withholds information or lies is declared invalid.

yep, I agree

The first part, was a case where the guy knew of the situation and then continued to play happy families. He should not be able to change his mind down the track.

but in the case of deceit or with holding knowledge etc, then the guy should be free to walk when the situation comes to light.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Why should a man be forced to raise a child that isn't biologically his?

whoops sorry, that wasn't in reference to the last bit. clearly i don't think any man should be forced to contribute to the raising of someone else's child.

 

[kfc1]

Blokes blowing their load is hardly equal contribution to a women's biological contribution. Then consider the social, economic and psychological issues that would need to be considered if a women is forced by the man to have the child. It effectively provides the man with the power of veto.

I pretty much agree with this - see my subsequent post which covers most relevant circumstances. I dont think either parent should be forced to have a child they dont want.

 

[SpuriousPea]

Middle of the last panel.

 

[JeffDunne]

If blokes don't want kids then there's an easy way to avoid it.

I'm guessing there's a few in this thread that are masters of that method based on some of the comments.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This thread is hilarious.

The kid comes first. Kids need a father. If you do your load and become a father, you're responsible for it. Deal with it, the mother does.

 

[kfc1]

If blokes don't want kids then there's an easy way to avoid it.

I'm guessing there's a few in this thread that are masters of that method based on some of the comments.

So youre anti-abortion? That is a perfectly reasonable belief to have but it is not relevant to this line of discussion which begins from a point of abortion being acceptable.

 

[JeffDunne]

So youre anti-abortion? That is a perfectly reasonable belief to have but it is not relevant to this line of discussion which begins from a point of abortion being acceptable.

No I'm not.

What is not relevant is that question based on the comment I made.

And to be frank, anyone who posted the quote below is so ignorant on the subject they should probably do themselves & the rest of us a favor and steer clear of the subject.

3. father doesn't want, mother does - baby is aborted OR mother has right to have baby but father has no legal, financial or otherwise responsibility or rights for the baby

Try asking your mother, sister, grandmother or god forbid, your girlfriend, whether they believe a man should have the right to force a women to have an abortion.

Hopefully they might talk some sense to you.

 

[kfc1]

No I'm not.

What is not relevant is that question based on the comment I made.

And to be frank, anyone who posted the quote below is so ignorant on the subject they should probably do themselves & the rest of us a favor and steer clear of the subject.

Try asking your mother, sister, grandmother or god forbid, your girlfriend, whether they believe a man should have the right to force a women to have an abortion.

Hopefully they might talk some sense to you.

I would welcome a rebuttal instead of just insults. I'm far from ignorant on the topic, i just have a different opinion to you.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

This thread is hilarious.

Agreed. Numerous "pro-choice" advocates exposing themselves as hypocrites. Plus people deliberately conflating financial abortion with women being forced to terminate their pregnancies, which no one actually supports.

"That's just tough t***ies!"
"If you didn't want a kid, there was an easy way to avoid it!"

The exact same statements are used by anti-abortionists. Hilarious indeed.

 

[telsor]

And to be frank, anyone who posted the quote below is so ignorant on the subject they should probably do themselves & the rest of us a favor and steer clear of the subject.

Try asking your mother, sister, grandmother or god forbid, your girlfriend, whether they believe a man should have the right to force a women to have an abortion.

Hopefully they might talk some sense to you.

Where is anyone suggesting women be forced to have an abortion?

 

[wandering123]

It's really simple: if a man contributes to a pregnancy, he should accept the woman's opinion whether he likes it or not.

It affects her life a lot more than his.

 

[clogged]

Middle of the last panel.

You do know Adam Thrasher totally disowned those?

 

[clogged]

This thread is hilarious.

The kid comes first. Kids need a father. If you do your load and become a father, you're responsible for it. Deal with it, the mother does.

This is true in all instances except where the dude fathers a child with a woman married to another man. So if you're looking to sire children without the responsibility, seek out bored, married women.

 

[telsor]

This thread is hilarious.

The kid comes first. Kids need a father. If you do your load and become a father, you're responsible for it. Deal with it, the mother does.

Unless she chooses not to and aborts.