I'd like to complain about the umpires...

[Markfs]

I actually think the game is better than it's ever been. We're watching the most exciting final series that I can remember.

But like rugby union, the games rules haven't stood up like soccer and leagues have and they're constantly tweaking them and making them ever more complex and less defined. Ridiculously hard game to umpire.

Totally agree. Also, the impact of umpiring is incredibly less than soccer. Although they use their TV sets on the sidelines now, players are still staging for frees and goals are scored. Maradona won a world cup by throwing the ball into the net and not getting caught. I couldnt imagine putting up with the impact of the refs in soccer. Also, the game of rugby union has been fundamentally changed because of the new rules introduced. The changes in the look of AFL have largely been made by the fitness of the players and the strategies introduced. While the interpretation of rules in AFL have changed the game a bit, rugby union got rejigged the whole look of sideline throw ins and other things - not that I know much more than a parting knowledge of the game.

in the final analysis, all four games were watchable for the full 2 hours.... try sitting thru a superbowl without yawning.

but in the final analysis, I'd still like to complain about the umpires in the pies game...because i'm still annoyed by the result

 

[noideaatall]

I actually think the game is better than it's ever been. We're watching the most exciting final series that I can remember.

But like rugby union, the games rules haven't stood up like soccer and leagues have and they're constantly tweaking them and making them ever more complex and less defined. Ridiculously hard game to umpire.

No question about this. Not convinced it is the product of rules rather than the professionalisation. If we could free up that stoppages, open up the game a bit more I think it could be even better.

 

[gappa]

 

[Apples]

You guys were robbed. Good on McRae for calling it out. AFL clearly want Dangerfield and Cats to win a flag - watch the Cats continue to get a dream run with the umps right thru the finals. Corrupt.

You can't seriously believe that. Umpires make mistakes and they made plenty yesterday, but I don't believe any umpire is instructed by the AFL to cheat or give advantage to one team over another. Win some, lose some. Yesterday we lost most.

 

[loki04]

I saw it differently. Once Ginni forces the tackle high, he grabs the blokes arm and holds it in place. I didn't see it like the Redman one, even if a freeze frame can make it look like a headlock.

But he Ginnivan let's go pretty quickly whilst Toohey holds on and then proceeds to ragdoll him around, then continues to hold him at the end in the same headlock.
Stills or in motion it is obvious and hard to refute that.

Even if we run with your "see it differently" the time length Toohey holds the headlock on is a free in itself.
Also you ignore the fact Ginnivan does not have the ball and didn't at any stage which again is a free kick.

Toohey initiated contact whether you think Ginnivan trying to extract himself out of it is a duck and shrug under the new rules is immaterial to that.

Then the lingering high headlock is another one, Ginnivan does not hold on for the entire time that's something the stills show quite clearly.
You even said you don't like him pleading with the ump which he does with BOTH arms whilst in that same headlock.

You have wedded yourself to the AFLs view on Ginnivan high free tactics is a bad look for the game and like them are looking the other way/making excuses.

 

[loki04]

Yeah. Whether or not he had the ball was where it could have been paid. I thought there were a fair few both ways. I thought we got jibbed on about 4 clear cut holding the balls.

And Cats have gotten good at exploiting the no prior rule. They just hold onto it until there's a teammate ready to collect and then let it spill for them. It never is a free and is thus interpreted as legitimate.

Lol the high is also there, I genuinely can't believe you see it as iffy.
He has him in a head lock for near on the entire time! it also lingers after that "extended" GIF he put in here too.

You can not hold someone around the neck for an extended period and say oh but he helped me get here I only held on, ragdolled him around then decided to hold him there in place whilst my team clears the ball...

That IS what happened.

 

[loki04]

Except he never had the ball in the first place, making it an illegal tackle. I think it was A 50/50 though and far from the worst decision.

Ah no it wasn't 50/50 and was easily one of the worst calls of the night...easily.

Even if he (Ginni) holds him in initially, the headlock lingers far past that, the free if you didn't want to pay it for the initial contact should of been paid when he didn't let go, ragdolled him and then held him in place in a headlock.

This was not a spur of the moment quick high hit teh umpire can miss it was a very visible long head high tackle.

If that's 50/50 I hope we start head hunting opposition in the same manner and I expect ANY player that ducks, lowers, evades, stiff arms or holds on to have their head thoroughly ripped off their shoulders.

 

[loki04]

This is the problem once you single out a person like that. Confirmation bias.
Was he holding his arm in place around his neck? or was he doing what everybody does when they are in a headlock.. trying to get the arm off his neck?

He let go immediately after it was seated anyway, the headlock remains in place for much much longer then Ginnivans 1 second of arm grab.

Hell he has both arms in the air whilst pleading for a free ffs but yeah he's forcing that headlock right in there deep...as you said people including Collingwood people, just wedded themselves to "the AFLs look of the game" stance and happy to see Ginnivan take one for the team.

Must have used Velcro sneakily to keep Tooheys arm around his neck...

 

[loki04]

Yeah. Whether or not he had the ball was where it could have been paid. I thought there were a fair few both ways. I thought we got jibbed on about 4 clear cut holding the balls.

And Cats have gotten good at exploiting the no prior rule. They just hold onto it until there's a teammate ready to collect and then let it spill for them. It never is a free and is thus interpreted as legitimate.

It is a free as they take the tackler on and that is the prior.
They stiff arm and try bust through the tackler, did it all night they then eat the tackle until it spills as the ump is calling play on.

They also had 4 clear throws on the night, amoung other stuff like teh pendles call back.

Geelong missed sweet fa in comparison in fact they got a very good rub of the green. And that was by and large teh commentary of neutrals too.

 

[sr36]

It is a free as they take the tackler on and that is the prior.
They stiff arm and try bust through the tackler, did it all night they then eat the tackle until it spills as the ump is calling play on.

They also had 4 clear throws on the night, amoung other stuff like teh pendles call back.

Geelong missed sweet fa in comparison in fact they got a very good rub of the green. And that was by and large teh commentary of neutrals too.

I agree that they got the rub of the green. Shit happens. That's just footy. We still should have won just need to be a bit cleaner next time. Hopefully we're good enough to get a next time.

 

[ThanksRossy]

So we’re not allowed to discuss poor umpiring against our team on here? Must feel good to be so superior.

 

[biggiemediums]

The umpires stitched us.

You're right, it is a profoundly subversive and confrontational proposition, totally beyond the realm of my picket fence world.

I'll leave it to the hardier types, like yourself of course.

The umpires played a huge part in multiple momentum swings.

They are completely unaccountable which in the course of human history, has never yielded good results. If you want to pretend it's all marshmallows and daisies and the umpires didn't play a part, be my guest but even our coach knows we got fingered.

 

[ThanksRossy]

The umpires stitched us.

You're right, it is a profoundly subversive and confrontational proposition, totally beyond the realm of my picket fence world.

I'll leave it to the hardier types, like yourself of course.

Sometimes, in some games of football, one team gets a worse run with the umpires than the other team. That often causes fans of the former team to feel frustrated and hard done by.
Is it somehow unreasonable for frustrated fans to express this?

 

[JB1975]

The umpires played a huge part in multiple momentum swings.

They are completely unaccountable which in the course of human history, has never yielded good results. If you want to pretend it's all marshmallows and daisies and the umpires didn't play a part, be my guest but even our coach knows we got fingered.

I think that the post of sr36 sums up my view well enough. We didn't get the rub of the green, which is sometimes a fact in sport, and in life. In the olden days, people dusted themselves off and prepared for the next contest.

But as you say, people are more educated about their rights nowadays and they're mad and they're just not going to meekly put up with that sort of thing. They've got a more defiant attitude. The election game was stolen from them and they will assertively squeal until (TBC).

Yes, a lack of transparency and accountability has been a horror throughout history. It did nothing for the Soviets under Stalin. I totally agree that mechanisms need to be put in place to ensure that the judgment of umpires reflects the will of the people. I'm not sure what that will look like, but I'm looking forward to the day.

Onward comrade.

 

[domus]

I actually think the game is better than it's ever been. We're watching the most exciting final series that I can remember.

But like rugby union, the games rules haven't stood up like soccer and leagues have and they're constantly tweaking them and making them ever more complex and less defined. Ridiculously hard game to umpire.

Every time I see that Ginnivan push in the back I have conniptions. It was a shocking non decision and I have no idea how Jack restrains himself. Being a bit hot headed I have no doubt I would have called the ump a F####ing cheat. At least it would make the 50m penalty worth the expression of frustration over the blatant double standards being applied. Enough is enough. They say umpiring is a tough gig and on occasions it is. But that blatant shove when a defender extends his arms and pushes rather than simply holds their position with their hands is a free every day of the week for a hundred and fifty years.

To create even more shades of grey by saying you can "sort of push your opponent in the back but not too much" is insane! It is simple. The recent abomination of hands gently resting on an opponent's back was ridiculous, but this new interpretation is just as bad. If the hands in the back keeps the players from contesting the ball it is an illegal action.

The other unforgiveable decision was the deliberate against Howe. The ump was 15 m away when Howe was tackled as he kicked yet he called deliberate. These decisions could be made by a 15-year-old ump in the junior comps. Both decisions led to Geelong goals and huge momentum shifts.

 

[domus]

I agree that they got the rub of the green. s**t happens. That's just footy. We still should have won just need to be a bit cleaner next time. Hopefully we're good enough to get a next time.

I want to see you write that if we get a fifty for one of our defenders running ten metres from the man with the ball but being called for being in the "protected Zone" or perhaps a Flag deciding 50m penalty like the one Degoey copped for simply reacting to a player looking to play on. Oh-that one's been re-written just before the finals because they know there'd be a riot if a game was decided like that.

It's almost as if they are looking to create issues. How about it's a 50 m penalty if you actually prevent or in any way infringe the player who is about to take his kick, otherwise -nothing to see here. Most of the fifties regarding the protected Zone are given when the player supposedly infringed didn't even know the player was there!

Shit happens will only get you so far.

 

[HeathySure]

So we’re not allowed to discuss poor umpiring against our team on here? Must feel good to be so superior.

I am not sure you understand the point of the thread... like most of the people posting in it...

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I blame Luke Ball for this. Following the great Gavin Brown's tradition he was an expert at diving on the ball and holding it in forcing a stoppage. The hierarchies aim, assumably, was to decrease stoppages but still encourage taking possession. It may be radical but my theory is the mistake was moving away from 18 players and 2 reserves. It has crowded the game.

That’s why he was called Luke Ballup

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I want to see you write that if we get a fifty for one of our defenders running ten metres from the man with the ball but being called for being in the "protected Zone" or perhaps a Flag deciding 50m penalty like the one Degoey copped for simply reacting to a player looking to play on. Oh-that one's been re-written just before the finals because they know there'd be a riot if a game was decided like that.

It's almost as if they are looking to create issues. How about it's a 50 m penalty if you actually prevent or in any way infringe the player who is about to take his kick, otherwise -nothing to see here. Most of the fifties regarding the protected Zone are given when the player supposedly infringed didn't even know the player was there!

s**t happens will only get you so far.

Absolutely agree in the 50 metre ruling. If you’re in the protected zone then you are out of play and can’t interfere. It’s not that hard to tweak the rules. Ginnivan was penalised for just being there.

 

[ThanksRossy]

I am not sure you understand the point of the thread... like most of the people posting in it...

I think I understand the original post. Seems most posters want to discuss the poor umpiring that occurred yesterday though.

 

[Markfs]

A very close relative and a fellow Pie supporter told me today that he gave up watching at half time....Says he doesn't like football much anymore other than what the Pies are doing ....and it's all because of the umpires...

That disturbs me...

 

[loki04]

I am not sure you understand the point of the thread... like most of the people posting in it...

We understood we just didn't care.

 

[Markfs]

I am not sure you understand the point of the thread... like most of the people posting in it...

The point of the thread is that I'm feeling very queasy about the umpiring, and a lot of people feel the same. And I think this is going to be the most popular thread this week, so join in....

 

[sideswipe]

I want to see you write that if we get a fifty for one of our defenders running ten metres from the man with the ball but being called for being in the "protected Zone" or perhaps a Flag deciding 50m penalty like the one Degoey copped for simply reacting to a player looking to play on. Oh-that one's been re-written just before the finals because they know there'd be a riot if a game was decided like that.

It's almost as if they are looking to create issues. How about it's a 50 m penalty if you actually prevent or in any way infringe the player who is about to take his kick, otherwise -nothing to see here. Most of the fifties regarding the protected Zone are given when the player supposedly infringed didn't even know the player was there!

s**t happens will only get you so far.

If you want to whine about umpires, maybe go back to the Blues game to see IQ’s blatant push on Silvagni which gave us an appalling free, which ultimately won us the game and the double chance.

But you wont, will you?


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[JLC]

You can't seriously believe that. Umpires make mistakes and they made plenty yesterday, but I don't believe any umpire is instructed by the AFL to cheat or give advantage to one team over another. Win some, lose some. Yesterday we lost most.

I think it used to be that the umpires were deer in headlights with the really good teams.

But we all know that the likes of Stevie, Rosebery and there is a bald umpire that aways screws us, will never give us a good run.