If the VFL/AFL greatest team of all time, was selected today, who is in, and who is out of the team of the century

[Guardian Hawk]

Rance

Played uncontested footy and dived repeatedly, but media loved him.

Most modern quality key defenders know when to zone off their opponents for maximal impact and to affect as many contests as possible. This definitely included Rance but also applied to Scarlett (especially the latter years), Fletcher (likewise), McGovern, etc.

Of the current crop, it applies to most to be honest but especially the likes of Sicily, Stewart, Lever, etc.

Having Astbury (and Grimes/Vlastuin) certainly assissted Rance and allowed him greater freedoms but he was still a quality full back (defensively and offensively) who was AA 5 straight years and deserves to be in the conversation.

In my (3rd) team, I have selected him alongside Southby, who was an old fashioned pure stopping full back which I think suits selecting Rance to allow him to play the role he did at his best at the Tigers.

In my view, there are about 8 guys in the conversation for best full back ever.

Those are Silvagni, Scarlett, Reagen, Southby, Moore, Dench, Langford and Rance.

Some pundits might include Lake, Fletcher and/or Glass.

Of that first list, the first 4 had already been selected (Silvagni in the original, Scarlett and Reagen in my alternate and Southby (and Rance) in the team you quoted). I left out Langford and Moore because I have tried to overcompensate for any club bias I might have (especially after selecting Knights over Jakovich at CHB). I just as easily could have selected Dench instead of Rance (but went for variety with Southby alongside).

Anyway, who would you select instead?

P.S. I too am not a fan of dives - but we are talking about 2-3 moments over 200 games. It doesn't make him less of a quality player (less likeable maybe). Clayton Oliver, for example, has flopped a few times in his career but over the last 3 or so years, I would rate him one of (if no the) best player in the comp. If I was selecting a team of the 2020's today, he would be one of the first selected, despite a couple of flops so far.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Doull is in the original TotC.

Thanks. Don't know how I missed that! Given I have had to leave Cousins and Black out, I think I can do a quick shuffle to replace Doull.

 

[GWT6]

Most modern quality key defenders know when to zone off their opponents for maximal impact and to affect as many contests as possible. This definitely included Rance but also applied to Scarlett (especially the latter years), Fletcher (likewise), McGovern, etc.

Of the current crop, it applies to most to be honest but especially the likes of Sicily, Stewart, Lever, etc.

Having Astbury (and Grimes/Vlastuin) certainly assissted Rance and allowed him greater freedoms but he was still a quality full back (defensively and offensively) who was AA 5 straight years and deserves to be in the conversation.

In my (3rd) team, I have selected him alongside Southby, who was an old fashioned pure stopping full back which I think suits selecting Rance to allow him to play the role he did at his best at the Tigers.

In my view, there are about 8 guys in the conversation for best full back ever.

Those are Silvagni, Scarlett, Reagen, Southby, Moore, Dench, Langford and Rance.

Some pundits might include Lake, Fletcher and/or Glass.

Of that first list, the first 4 had already been selected (Silvagni in the original, Scarlett and Reagen in my alternate and Southby (and Rance) in the team you quoted). I left out Langford and Moore because I have tried to overcompensate for any club bias I might have (especially after selecting Knights over Jakovich at CHB). I just as easily could have selected Dench instead of Rance (but went for variety with Southby alongside).

Anyway, who would you select instead?

P.S. I too am not a fan of dives - but we are talking about 2-3 moments over 200 games. It doesn't make him less of a quality player (less likeable maybe). Clayton Oliver, for example, has flopped a few times in his career but over the last 3 or so years, I would rate him one of (if no the) best player in the comp. If I was selecting a team of the 2020's today, he would be one of the first selected, despite a couple of flops so far.

Good post. A bit more thought went into it than mine!!!

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Yeah, Martin's profile and status as the football media's current hype job had nothing to do with it.

People didn’t want him to win the norm before the GF was played as it would complete the Flag/Brownlow/NS triple. It’s pretty normal for oppo supporters to not want another player to achieve something their best players haven’t done. If it wasn’t Houli you’d be saying Dusty stole it off some other player, let’s be real. I’ve even heard people say Short should have gotten the 2020 NS too on here. Amazing.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Lockett, Plugger, Dusty, Buddy, GAJ, Judd, Scarlett, Rance, D Cox are all locks. Everything else is debatable except Coventry, couldn’t get in before so no way he’s getting in now.

Dusty doesnt make the greatest midfield list of all time, let alone the AA squad most years. Stop trolling every thread with this crap

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Dusty doesnt make the greatest midfield list of all time, let alone the AA squad most years. Stop trolling every thread with this crap

No he isn’t that’s why he’s the HF not in the mid . Fine me a better HF (not CHF like Carey) since the TOC cause I don’t know any.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

No he isn’t that’s why he’s the HF not in the mid . Fine me a better HF (not CHF like Carey) since the TOC cause I don’t know any.

Steve Johnson is potentially one. As a specialist type in that spot he is certainly better than Martin. 200 more goals from a handful more games tips the scales well in his favour.

It really depends on what you classify as a HF. These days, everything between HB and HF excluding the CHF and CHB are utilities. As a utility it could be argued that Martin is worthy of consideration. But that is an awfully good team to be trying to get into. The two best players of the last 20 years are GAJ and Buddy. They find spots in the team in my opinion. Judd, Martin, etc fall just below that level but are in the discussion. A case could be made either way.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Steve Johnson is potentially one. As a specialist type in that spot he is certainly better than Martin. 200 more goals from a handful more games tips the scales well in his favour.

It really depends on what you classify as a HF. These days, everything between HB and HF excluding the CHF and CHB are utilities. As a utility it could be argued that Martin is worthy of consideration. But that is an awfully good team to be trying to get into. The two best players of the last 20 years are GAJ and Buddy. They find spots in the team in my opinion. Judd, Martin, etc fall just below that level but are in the discussion. A case could be made either way.

I don’t think Stevie J is close to Dusty tbh. I’m talking about the HFF, where it’s used by players who are not key forwards (i.e Mids that drift forward).

That’s why I didn’t put Buddy there as he’s more of a KPF and I wanted team balance. GAJ played his best as an inside mid. Most people put him there. My selection doesn’t look so silly now does it?

Do your reference my fwd line is:

HF: Dusty, Carey, Snr
FF: Lethal, Lockett, Bunton

Dusty and Snr are 187 and 185, so they fit the mould of a HFF. Carey is already the tall there.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Barassi, Dyer, Whitten are elevated due to their repuatation and off field charisma. None are in the best 22 players ever based on what they did on field. Bourke and Nicholls were tough, but again overrated. Also, Buddy > Jezza. Better player, for longer.

In- Scarlett, Matera, Carey, Lockett, GAJ, Judd
Out- Nicholls, Bourke, Jezza, Whitten, Dyer

FB: Smith Silvani Doull
HB: Murray Scarlett Greig
C: Matera Stewart Judd
HF: Bunton Carey Reynolds
FF: Lockett Coleman Matthews
F: Farmer GAJ Skilton
Int: Hart Barassi Ablett Williams
Buddy the sub.

No second ruck. Farmer could run all day with Lockett, Carey or Hart giving him a chop out.

Just as happy with McLeod on the HBF, Greig back to wing and Matera out.

Silvagni wasn't even the best fullback at his club

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Out on character? Are we really gonna go down that road? How about Leigh Matthews?

You're really comparing Matthews and Ablett Snr on character grounds? Faaaaaaaaark me

 

[GWT6]

The original team of 21 was picked from 100 years of football. We now have an additional 27 years of players.
Theoretically there were 0.21 players per year in the original team
With an increase to 22 players over 127 years, there would be 0.173 payers per year in the team.
Based on that there could be 4-5 players replaced (4.677)

Old time players are often remembered though rose coloured glasses. Based on the above, the best handful players of the past 27 years would be a very good chance of pushing out some of the selected players.
Carey, Franklin and Abblett Jr would certainly be in. Gawn, Cox, Cousins, Martin, Voss, Goodes, Judd, Hodge, Buckley, (based on media push), Pendlebury N Riewoldt, Pav, Ricciuto, Danger, Fyfe would all be in the conversation, Oliver getting pretty close to that group.

*All players and coaches associated with Essendon's drug cheating would be ineligible.
Ablett Sr may also be excluded based on killing a woman, but they probably would keep it on field otherwise questions start to get asked about people like Ted Whitten.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

The elephant in the room for me is no one discussing a replacement for Nicholls in the BP.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I don’t think Stevie J is close to Dusty tbh. I’m talking about the HFF, where it’s used by players who are not key forwards (i.e Mids that drift forward).

That’s why I didn’t put Buddy there as he’s more of a KPF and I wanted team balance. GAJ played his best as an inside mid. Most people put him there. My selection doesn’t look so silly now does it?

Do your reference my fwd line is:

HF: Dusty, Carey, Snr
FF: Lethal, Lockett, Bunton

Dusty and Snr are 187 and 185, so they fit the mould of a HFF. Carey is already the tall there.

As a pure HFF Steve Johnson kicked nearly 600 goals.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think Dusty is better in that particular role.

I am not saying Johnson is a better footballer but in that role he is so far ahead of Martin that you'd be a moron trying to argue it. But Martin is a more versatile footballer than Johnson and is a better midfielder by a long way. Hence he is being discussed as a potential entry into the team. However, you asked someone to name a better HFF since the turn of the century. And Steve Johnson is a better HFF. Fact.

And Buddy gets in that team before Martin. It doesn't matter where. He is outrightly a much better footballer. You argument about balance is a nonsense. Buddy goes into any spot in the front 6, daylight ahead of Martin, Johnson or any other player since Carey. End of.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

As a pure HFF Steve Johnson kicked nearly 600 goals.

You are absolutely dreaming if you think Dusty is better in that particular role.

I am not saying Johnson is a better footballer but in that role he is so far ahead of Martin that you'd be a moron trying to argue it. But Martin is a more versatile footballer than Johnson and is a better midfielder by a long way. Hence he is being discussed as a potential entry into the team. However, you asked someone to name a better HFF since the turn of the century. And Steve Johnson is a better HFF. Fact.

And Buddy gets in that team before Martin. It doesn't matter where. He is outrightly a much better footballer. You argument about balance is a nonsense. Buddy goes into any spot in the front 6, daylight ahead of Martin, Johnson or any other player since Carey. End of.

Johnson played more minutes in HFF over his career that’s why. At their peak Dusty is miles better at that role playing 50/50 mid/fwd.

Buddy is also in my team just the bench for balance reasons. You can switch them around if you want, doesn’t bother me.

 

[Cyclops]

It was a joke when it was done, and even more irrelevant now.

Summed up by Silvagni at FB. He wasn't Carltons FB in their team of the century.

Political garbage.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Johnson played more minutes in HFF over his career that’s why. At their peak Dusty is miles better at that role playing 50/50 mid/fwd.

Buddy is also in my team just the bench for balance reasons. You can switch them around if you want, doesn’t bother me.

As a HFF only are you arguing that Martin is better than Johnson?

Seriously?

If Martin played pure HFF for his whole career as Johnson did, do you think he kicks 600 goals? Did you even see Steve Johnson play football? He's one of the greatest pure half forward's of all time.

Martin is a better footballer overall as he can do more and is a gun even as a pure midfielder. But he ain't in the same hemisphere as Johnson as a forward. Not even fit to lace the guy's boots in that role.

 

[Mr Meow]

As a HFF only are you arguing that Martin is better than Johnson?

Seriously?

If Martin played pure HFF for his whole career as Johnson did, do you think he kicks 600 goals? Did you even see Steve Johnson play football? He's one of the greatest pure half forward's of all time.

Martin is a better footballer overall as he can do more and is a gun even as a pure midfielder. But he ain't in the same hemisphere as Johnson as a forward. Not even fit to lace the guy's boots in that role.

2.7 combined goals/assists and 19.2 possessions a game over a 16 years career for SJ.

Martin's 1.85 combined goals/assists and 24.5 possessions a game over a 14 year career (ongoing) at the end of this year. So about a goal less per game but a few more touches.

Undoubtedly excellent but you'd think at forward flank the scoring metrics would be more important. Franklin could easily play on a flank too and if so is well ahead of both.

 

[boncer34]

No he isn’t that’s why he’s the HF not in the mid . Fine me a better HF (not CHF like Carey) since the TOC cause I don’t know any.

Hird.

Probably retired around the time you were born though so you probably never saw him in full flight.

 

[JackFlash]

Impossible to make changes to a team that played a very different game of football.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

As a HFF only are you arguing that Martin is better than Johnson?

Seriously?

If Martin played pure HFF for his whole career as Johnson did, do you think he kicks 600 goals? Did you even see Steve Johnson play football? He's one of the greatest pure half forward's of all time.

Martin is a better footballer overall as he can do more and is a gun even as a pure midfielder. But he ain't in the same hemisphere as Johnson as a forward. Not even fit to lace the guy's boots in that role.

Well Martin is on 315ish playing HFF 50/50 since 2018. 2017 was 70/30. Considering he played 9 games in 2022 and 3/4 of the season in 2021, I think he could get 600 goals pretty comfortably if he was 100% HFF since his debut.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Hird.

Probably retired around the time you were born though so you probably never saw him in full flight.

I did but Hird isn’t in anybody’s team though is he.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Well Martin is on 315ish playing HFF 50/50 since 2018. 2017 was 70/30. Considering he played 9 games in 2022 and 3/4 of the season in 2021, I think he could get 600 goals pretty comfortably if he was 100% HFF since his debut.

You forget that Johnson also occasionally ran through the midfield.

But if you want to discuss the chops of playing as a legitimate half forward Steve Johnson is in a completely different league to Dustin Martin.

I cannot believe you are continuing to argue otherwise.

 

[CrowToon]

If your career ended with a 19xx year then you shouldn't even get a sniff. Put those blokes up against a team of modern day players and it'd be a country reserves league score.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

You forget that Johnson also occasionally ran through the midfield.

But if you want to discuss the chops of playing as a legitimate half forward Steve Johnson is in a completely different league to Dustin Martin.

I cannot believe you are continuing to argue otherwise.

Nah man don’t worry about it. I don’t really care.

 

[Mr Meow]

Well Martin is on 315ish playing HFF 50/50 since 2018. 2017 was 70/30. Considering he played 9 games in 2022 and 3/4 of the season in 2021, I think he could get 600 goals pretty comfortably if he was 100% HFF since his debut.

Yeah judging someone's body of work and actual output doesn't work like this.

SJ was permanent midfielder in 2013 and had pretty crazy numbers. But I can't just say he'd have had a better career as a midfielder than Voss.