If you think Richmond will slide, where will it come from?

[lids2004roar]

P.S mate its one thing to have optimism about your clubs season but this post sounds as desperate as Monica Lewinsky

The intention of this thread is to discuss the potential reasons why Richmond could lose up to 8 games less this season than last.

It is not me pumping us up, just a thread to hopefully find some middle ground. Seems some people blindly tip us for the spoon, instead of blindly tipping us for a top 4 finish I'd rather just discuss why we may be underrated. FWIW I don't have huge expectations this year.

A distinct lack of key position players is Richmond's main weakness. Topping up with rejects like Kinglsley and Polak (for whom you paid WAY over the odds) will not solve anything.

<Actually we paid close to nothing for Polak. That is well known. About Kingsley can you try and give a reason why he will make us a worse team this year?>


Couglan's out for the year and your ruck division is struggling with injury. Richo Gaspar and Brown are near the end of their careers. Hall is an out and out hack.

<Coughlan was out last year too. Therefore we are not worse off. Simmonds will be back by Round 3 but that is still 20 games we have him for. Patto has had a couple of BOG's lately so we won't be killed. Richo has 3 years left, Gaspar on his last legs admittadly, and Brown is only 28.
As I said earlier, Polak's inclusion pushes Ray Hall out of our 22 unless multiple injuries hit. >



Shultz is one exciting young tall along with Pattison but the cupboard's a bit bare after that. Buddy Frankllin would be more than handy at Richmond right now.

Your young midfielders and defenders look ok, even good, although you've lost Coughlan.

<We didn't have him last year either but still got by.>


You'll go backwards this year - not a long way, but a spot or two.

I agree with TFT (for once! )

Richmond have really focused on making themselves a quick team, and have really "forgotten" about getting some talented KPP's into the club.

Gaspar is on his last legs, and this is likely to be his last year.
The Bowdens, whilst providing plenty of run, really lack a defensive side to their game, and can get found out too easily.

And then there is Richo, brilliant one minute, terrible the next. Is in his 30's now and his agility will soon leave him, and he will drop off pretty quickly if you ask me.

Schulz and Hall are battlers, but not players you could really build a team around.

Polak, well, the jury is still out on him. A bit unstable, but a move East might just prove the making of him.

Don't think Richmond will finish last, but don't think they'll play finals either.

Pretty accurate post.

I'd like to challenge that we have "forgotton" about drafting KPPs though.

Since Wallace arrived we have picked up Pattison (1st round), Hughes (2nd round), Jack Riewoldt (1st round), Thursfield, Kent Kingsley (shouldn't be included though), Polak and Troy Simmonds.

That's 4 highly talented draftees, one mature ruckman, one KP chb and then the depth filler in Kingsley.

We also have Schulz at 21yo and Mcguane is 20yo.


That might not be enough, but Hawthorn don't have too many more young KPPs than us.

you realize that kingsley and polak each played vfl and wafl football last year. there is a reason that was the case. they can't cut it at afl level.

<Kent Kingsley was the victim of his coach's all loving nature

Polak's issue was not just form related as we all know. He was worth persisting with, he was dominant in some matches early in the season and averaged 22 possies and 11 marks or so at wafl. Not bad imo.>

brown still isn't training fully and he will never be the same player he was. this is unfortunate as he was a joy to watch

<Um he has been training for 6 months now and he's been flying higher than Cousins. Kicked 4 goals last week.>

a scary thing for richmond supporters would be seeing how easy richo did his hammy. to do that damage so early in the season is a worry

Deledio - hopefully wallace actually plays him in the midfield for once <even at HBF he's dangerous, but I agree he needs more time midfield>
Tambling - when are you tigers going t realize he is no better than krakouer <We will realize that after 5 years of nothing, not 1 full year of solid footy>
Polo - a handy tagger, but that's about it <28 possies and 3 goals in 1 game aint bad for "just a tagger">
Hughes - won't play too many games this year as kingsley and polak would have gone ahead of him. <Agree here. He has built up 7kgs this pre season and has been training at CHB so will get games ahead of Ray Hall when injury hits>
Meyer - very much overated, just doesn't seem to do anything special <What he does do is extremely special. His goals are spitting images of Nathan Brown and James Hird every single Tigers supporter will say that. He shows something special.... just not enough of it >
JON - you and every other richmond supporter knows he is a hack <Just like all other top 10 picks after 1 year >
Schulz - that one game against brisbane is his only claim to fame, with richo in the side he won't get the ball kicked to him
Thursfield - still a long way off playing afl football after his knee op.
Pattison - struggles against the big fellows and should be tried as a KPP before chucking him in the ruck
Howat - i am a fan of howat and he will be a great player for the tigers
Raines - can't see them moving him out of defence <He will play midfield after he's played 50 games according to Terry>
Foley - a good in and under player. a bit too much like k.john and tucky for my liking <Actually, this kid might be faster than Deledio>

should i keep going?????

Sorry for the slow response, I had to go away and come back while typing.

 

[_RT_]

here are yours also goldy

monfries - hasn't done too much so far. everybody knows he is corageous but that doesn't alone make you an afl footballer. there is alot of pressue on him to perform this year

stanton- top three in our b&f the past two seasons. runs all day and wins plenty of the ball. hopefully his disposal will improve

dyson - has shown glimpses of form but has struggled for consistency. in the same boat as monfries as it is time to perform

bradley - he is all yours to bag. i couldn't care less what you say about him

ryder- he only turned 19 a week ago and has shown a bit in the praccy games so far. nobody is putting pressue on him yet. it looks like we are going to try him as a CHB before rushing him into the ruck.

dempsey- he has huge potential but has struggled with his disposal a bit. he is actually quite tall and he should put on a bit of weight in the next couple of years. not expecting much out of him this year.

cole - not in our best 28 so he doesnt matter

lee - has been struck down by injuries year in year out. he is a bit of a project player and he will be given time to develop. hard to judge right at the moment

nash- he is rated highly amongst the bomber faithful, i'm not so sure. he has good skills but has never really been fit. he also has a fight on his hands to make it into the team

slats - tough as nails and he is really hard at the ball. he will turn into a very solid footballer. he is in the jared crouch mould

jobe- remarkable improvement last season. great hands but his kicking lets him down.

laycock - agree with what you have said goldy. his anzac day game is in the hearts of all essendon supporters, however we aren't sure if he can produce this form often enough

johns- has shown a bit, but his best is a long way from his worst. he has potential but with lloyd back in the team he may struggle

winders- i would expect him to have a good season this year. i think he will surprise alot of people. he is similiar to cam howat

welshy- agressive but not always damaging with his disposal. he is a bit of a scapegoat. although he is a solid contributor most weeks

fletch will have a great year creating off CHB

Mal michael is still in the top 5 full backs in the league

hirdy is just as much chance of breaking down as richo is

deledio has huge potential, but what has he done. wallace doesn't play him in the midfield. don't forget stanton was runner-up in out B&F in 2005.

Apart from Bradley and Cole nearly every other player got a fairly glowing review has flaws but should still be a gun/solid footballer. Yet it seems you dismissed every Tigers kid except for Howat, you even dismiss Deledio to some degree asking what he has done, sure he might not have finished high in the club B&F but considering that is the view of people at the club as opposed to winning the Rising Star award which is judged on by independent voters, I know which one I give more relevance to.

 

[Goldust]

here are yours also goldy

monfries - hasn't done too much so far. everybody knows he is corageous but that doesn't alone make you an afl footballer. there is alot of pressue on him to perform this year

stanton- top three in our b&f the past two seasons. runs all day and wins plenty of the ball. hopefully his disposal will improve

dyson - has shown glimpses of form but has struggled for consistency. in the same boat as monfries as it is time to perform

bradley - he is all yours to bag. i couldn't care less what you say about him

ryder- he only turned 19 a week ago and has shown a bit in the praccy games so far. nobody is putting pressue on him yet. it looks like we are going to try him as a CHB before rushing him into the ruck.

dempsey- he has huge potential but has struggled with his disposal a bit. he is actually quite tall and he should put on a bit of weight in the next couple of years. not expecting much out of him this year.

cole - not in our best 28 so he doesnt matter

lee - has been struck down by injuries year in year out. he is a bit of a project player and he will be given time to develop. hard to judge right at the moment

nash- he is rated highly amongst the bomber faithful, i'm not so sure. he has good skills but has never really been fit. he also has a fight on his hands to make it into the team

slats - tough as nails and he is really hard at the ball. he will turn into a very solid footballer. he is in the jared crouch mould

jobe- remarkable improvement last season. great hands but his kicking lets him down.

laycock - agree with what you have said goldy. his anzac day game is in the hearts of all essendon supporters, however we aren't sure if he can produce this form often enough

johns- has shown a bit, but his best is a long way from his worst. he has potential but with lloyd back in the team he may struggle

winders- i would expect him to have a good season this year. i think he will surprise alot of people. he is similiar to cam howat

welshy- agressive but not always damaging with his disposal. he is a bit of a scapegoat. although he is a solid contributor most weeks

fletch will have a great year creating off CHB

Mal michael is still in the top 5 full backs in the league

hirdy is just as much chance of breaking down as richo is

deledio has huge potential, but what has he done. wallace doesn't play him in the midfield. don't forget stanton was runner-up in out B&F in 2005.

Very honest. Think we are on the same page with all that, except for Fletcher. I seriously don't rate the guy! But the Bombers faithful do and fair enough. I just don't think he plays often enough on the key big man forward and the job gets left to the likes of Bradley who is clearly not up to it (worst skills at the club) and McPhee, who is undersized and wasted!!!

Hopes Dyson gets some consistency. Seems to play real welleach time I see the Bombers but must go missing in betweens!

 

[hulld]

And who would you recruit...Polak or Michael, who was disinterested in football last season (and will be again when the Dons keep losing like the Lions did last year) and barely trained and in to his 30s.

Face facts. The hype around Essendon revolves solely around tour coach talking young players up and Matty Lloyd returning to the form of three years ago!!!! Lloyd goes down again, yu'll be lucky to win three games!

michael is still 29 and he has plenty of good footy ahead of him
polak has had his problems on and off the field. he has fixed his problems off the field, now all he has to do is fix the ones on it.

lloyd will make a huge difference. imagine having two richos in the one side.

than on the other hand, imagine how the tigers would have gone if richo missed the whole season. that is what we went through last year. if you take the big key forward out of any side they will struggle

 

[lids2004roar]

As for Riewoldt, he's only young, and a KPP, so I wouldn't expect anything from him for another couple of years at least. Also, he is listed on the Richmond website at 192cm, and that might be a fraction short for a KPD. Will probably end up playing as a third tall on the HFF.

Jack Riewoldt is taller than both Brendan Fevola and Daniel Bradshaw, and is among the top 2 best marks in the 2006 draft.

He's grown to 193cm over the summer I think too. Can't wait to see him debut, he should be an exciting one!

 

[lids2004roar]

than on the other hand, imagine how the tigers would have gone if richo missed the whole season. that is what we went through last year. if you take the big key forward out of any side they will struggle

When Richo missed the whole season we made the Preliminary Final thanks!

The year after he kicked 92 or so goals, so anything could happen with Lloyd

 

[Tristagi]

See the thing is that while some of... who am a kidding, the whole football community may 'underrate' Richmond that simple thing is some Richmond fans 'over rate' the list they have.

All you have is a few rookies who slipped under the rader last year, don't expect them to go so well this year..

 

[carnthedons07premiers]

Richmond would be a decent side if they didn't break their legs all the time, i wouldn't blame the umps, if you don't like they umpire why don't you start umpiring

 

[lids2004roar]

Richmond would be a decent side if they didn't break their legs all the time, i wouldn't blame the umps, if you don't like they umpire why don't you start umpiring

The only reason I put that into the OP was to show we didn't have an "easy ride" last year.

It doesn't matter if RIchmond supporters over or underrate our list.

The list in 2006 gathered 11 wins and has improved with the addition and improvement of the list. Doesn't matter how we rate this list, but I don't see how we are going to go from middle to dead worst team in the competition. Where will this ladder drop come from? Tristage said our rookies got under the guard of some teams and won't do as well, but there are plenty more to come from

Watch out for Casserly. If he debuts early it will be Deledio, Raines then Casserly 3 years in a row of top 2 Rising Star finishes

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Ur A Tool

I know everyone is thinking it

i AM

 

[hougie]

dyson - has shown glimpses of form but has struggled for consistency. in the same boat as monfries as it is time to perform

ryder- he only turned 19 a week ago and has shown a bit in the praccy games so far. nobody is putting pressue on him yet. it looks like we are going to try him as a CHB before rushing him into the ruck.

dempsey- he has huge potential but has struggled with his disposal a bit. he is actually quite tall and he should put on a bit of weight in the next couple of years. not expecting much out of him this year.

cole - not in our best 28 so he doesnt matter

lee - has been struck down by injuries year in year out. he is a bit of a project player and he will be given time to develop. hard to judge right at the moment

nash- he is rated highly amongst the bomber faithful, i'm not so sure. he has good skills but has never really been fit. he also has a fight on his hands to make it into the team

laycock - agree with what you have said goldy. his anzac day game is in the hearts of all essendon supporters, however we aren't sure if he can produce this form often enough

johns- has shown a bit, but his best is a long way from his worst. he has potential but with lloyd back in the team he may struggle

winders- i would expect him to have a good season this year. i think he will surprise alot of people. he is similiar to cam howat

welshy- agressive but not always damaging with his disposal. he is a bit of a scapegoat. although he is a solid contributor most weeks

I will use this as an example of something that really frustrates me about this site...

Should you trade the red stripe of each of the above players for a yellow, they would most probably read something along the lines of hack/completely useless etc.

JON - you and every other richmond supporter knows he is a hack

Ring any bells?

You could just as easily sub in what you said for Dempsey in there...

JON - he has huge potential but has struggled with his disposal a bit. he is actually quite tall and he should put on a bit of weight in the next couple of years. not expecting much out of him this year.

Its alright if you're blatantly trolling but not if you take yourself seriously, so, can we all cut the crap...

 

[Mr Lizard]

The list in 2006 gathered 11 wins and has improved with the addition and improvement of the list. Doesn't matter how we rate this list, but I don't see how we are going to go from middle to dead worst team in the competition. Where will this ladder drop come from?

It is one thing to say your list has gotten better. It is another to say it has gotten better relative to everyone else's.
Which team's lists have gotten worse? They have all added young guns, they all have players coming back from injury.


FWIW I think the Tiges will be duking it out for ninth spot with us. We will win. Tiges to finish tenth.

 

[lids2004roar]

It is one thing to say your list has gotten better. It is another to say it has gotten better relative to everyone else's.
Which team's lists have gotten worse? They have all added young guns, they all have players coming back from injury.

It's not the young guns we have added this year that will see us improve.

It is the youngsters from 2-3 years ago that are starting to mature that will see us improve quite a lot.

Same for the Hawks, but blokes like Roughy will take a while longer.

You see, teams like Richmond and Hawthorn are about to have a huge group of talented 20-23yos which will see our teams improve more than anyone else's in the same timeframe save for short term trading like Freo.

Teams like Essendon and Carlton will not improve much this year - their kids are 18yo. In 3 years time they should have a bit of a burst up the ladder unless they lose too many mature stars (Essendon will).

Tambling is 20, Deledio turning 20 eventually, Raines 21 soon and Schulz turning 22 soon etc... this will be a year when we see a lot of these players go from "young guns" to "gun players".

There is a big difference between the 2 titles.

 

[Bluebear]

*yawns......* this is getting boring, whats on the other channels.............

 

[Coin_Toss]

Sides who have finished below them will only get better. From what I can gauge, Geelong and Port Adelaide will make a charge for the eight and Hawthorn, Carlton and Essendon should improve a bit. Not to mention Richmond has a bad goal-to-goal line. They will finish between 10th-14th. I'm not a fan of Terry Wallace's - his style of coaching leaves little to be desired, and he didn't achieve big results while over at the Bulldogs.

 

[andypie]

Oh dear. *retreats to underground bunker*

thats funny mate. good to see we dont all take it too serious.

 

[On the bench]

Richmond won't slide they will end up where they usually finish,9th!

 

[gadj1976]

You like most teams need everyone up and running. Especially Richo. If you see Richo with hammy problems this time of the year, then that isn't a good sign for later in the year.

I can't see Gaspar improving, nor Bowden (x2), nor Richo (on performances from last year). Schulz, Coughlan, Tambling, Meyer, Foley, Pettifer, Raines (gun player this kid!) will have to play better than last year for your standing on the ladder to break even with last year.

Browny is also going to have to have a cracker year.

Deledio is an out and out star and will improve but he'll need help. Where it will come from - over the 22 H&A games - I don't know.

The only concern I have with your post is that you believe your list is underrated. I don't believe so. I believe you've got one of the best coaches, but have been hamstrung with finishing mid table and missing out on the top draft picks.

Don't worry, I love watching Richmond, my first exposure to VFL was watching the Tiges and hearing the theme song - so I've been a fan for ages, but lets hope we only hear your song at the start of the game this week !!!!

 

[Bluebear]

You like most teams need everyone up and running. Especially Richo. If you see Richo with hammy problems this time of the year, then that isn't a good sign for later in the year.

I can't see Gaspar improving, nor Bowden (x2), nor Richo (on performances from last year). Schulz, Coughlan, Tambling, Meyer, Foley, Pettifer, Raines (gun player this kid!) will have to play better than last year for your standing on the ladder to break even with last year.

Browny is also going to have to have a cracker year.

Deledio is an out and out star and will improve but he'll need help. Where it will come from - over the 22 H&A games - I don't know.

The only concern I have with your post is that you believe your list is underrated. I don't believe so. I believe you've got one of the best coaches, but have been hamstrung with finishing mid table and missing out on the top draft picks.

That could be difficult.

 

[hullsy]

haha richmond haha thats a laugh

wait its alrite u have the 5 year plan

wait richo will be gone by then, i guess its up 2 pattison

 

[Dr Gonzo]

It's amazing how underrated Richmond are.

It's obvious the football world's opinions are rather unified when it comes to the once mighty Tigers. The roar is weak, the talent is never enough, and a wooden spoon seems favourable to offset their appetite.

How will this popular belief of Richmond sliding take place?

As a team that won 11 games in 2006 they need to become a team that is 8 games worse than the team we fielded last year.

New players include a fully fit Nathan Brown.

Okay, so far we have only improved the team by a massive amount.

Next we have Graham Polak. The subect of much debate when first traded for, a majority of Tiger fans are very happy we have him now. If he doesn't be a great player this year then he will at least free up Joel Bowden and will force Ray Hall out of the team.

Again, that is a large improvement on last year.

In defence we need a solid quality player with leadership. Lucky for us, Chris Newman is back. His leg break was a very "clean" one and he was running 6 months ago now unlike Nathan Brown's "messy" break. He will put a lot more steadiness and drive into the backline. Probably our next captain btw.


Now apart from big name inclusions improving our team by a good margin, we have a lot of young talent who are rippening as we speak. It is only natural for a team full of talented youngsters to produce several players who have "break out years" and take major leaps forward. This time last year Dean Polo was a no-name. Only took him 1 game to show he'll be a star.

Deledio, Tambling, Polo, Hughes, Meyer, JON, Schulz, Thursfield, Pattison, Howat, Raines and Foley will all be better players than last year.

Let's say hypothetically only Tambling and Deledio of that group really step up and the rest remain exactly the same. Does that make us better or worse than we were last year? We'd have one of the better midfields in the comp instead of the worst.

FWIW, Deledio is on fire, he got 30 possessions last week. Tambling was BOG. Jay Schulz is showing the same potential he showed when he kicked 6 goals on Mal Michael who was then in his prime.


The recruitment of Kent Kingsley has drawn some of you to the conclusion that he will single handedly drag us down the ladder. This is both unrealistic and stupid. Appreciate that he will make our team's depth better than it was last year to cover even more injuries (we had a terrible year last year injury wise). It was either him, or a speculative 18yo who wouldn't do a quarter of what Kingsley will. 20 goals from him would even be a nice little side bonus with Richo, Brown, Schulz, Pettifer, Deledio etc racking up goals.


Another little stat - last year Richmond received the LEAST amount of free kicks in the competition.

In a year with terrible injury problems to key players combined with being the worst treated team by the umpires and still managed 11 wins. We have thrown in several big name players and the natural improvement from our kids are solid indications of an improvement in 2007.

Where will our slide from 11 wins come from? How can we be a worse football team by 8 wins this year?

People don't underrate Richmond, you totally overrate them benny_furs.

And I would much rather a speculative 18yo taking up a place on the list then a known quantity in Kingsley

 

[jonesy86]

did anyone here carro talking about the tigs on AW tonight?

she was talking about an address they got from Wallace today outlining where he thought Richmond were at.....and guess where wallet himself rates the tigers this season.....9th!!!!

this got me beginning to respect the mans opinions.......then i heard they re-signed tambling for another 3 seasons!!!!!!

 

[gadj1976]

That could be difficult.

fair point that!!!

 

[morgoth]

How can they slide? Slide implies that you fall from somwhere worth being!

9th is no where land but then again after a couple of wooden spoons under Spudder I guess it is somewhere.

 

[Patty#32]

I think Richmond should do better this year due to N.Brown, Newman and Hartigan being te 3 mina players they need back.....
Brown will kill it swapping onball/ forward line...
Newman gives run off the backline and Hartigan can play onball or in backline where he adds run too....
Also i believe Tambling is set for a great year as to is Deledio and Foley...