I'm not satisfied. Should Essendon be punished for failure to provide Medical Records?

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Agree with OP. I feel an appropriate penalty would be

- removal from finals series for one season
- removal of first and second round draft picks for two years
- fine, lets say $2 million
- 12 month suspension for the coach.

That should do it. Heaviest penalties in the games history.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Agree with OP. I feel an appropriate penalty would be

- removal from finals series for one season
- removal of first and second round draft picks for two years
- fine, lets say $2 million
- 12 month suspension for the coach.

That should do it. Heaviest penalties in the games history.
Click to expand...

You forgot

- allowing Carlton to assume team's place in the finals
 
Biggest punishment in the history of the game is a Clayton's punishment hey, wow wee!!!!!

Just because our supporter base stood firm, our list management wasn't a complete disaster and our brave coach stood strong when being flamed we've come out of this better than those who received smaller punishments, (Melbourne and Carlton) doesn't mean we need to be punished again.

You guys can comfort yourselves with the fact that lack of match practice will probably cost us two games to other top 2 rivals and potentially a home qualifying final.
 

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Next time a club is being investigated and can't produce comprehensive medical records they should be whacked hard by ASADA.

One thing this case has shown is how easy it is to get away with doping just by losing a few records. This is a professional sport and medicos / coaches should act like professionals - Keep records. There's only 1 reason you wouldn't keep the records and that is to hide doping.

Not sure if this can be done in hindsight though... I thought there was a rule in the code that already addressed failure to produce records however it seems ASADA never followed up from this angle?
 
De Iulio2Wiggins said:
You forgot

- allowing Carlton to assume team's place in the finals
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No that was our littel reward for us. Watching Caro's team go down to the team that actually finished 9th and Carlton getting some false sense of security that stopped them doing the root and branch rebuild required has, along with pick 19 last year (which was also made better by Carlton not picking Laverde), has allowed us to scramble out of this.
 
TaylorMade said:
Next time a club is being investigated and can't produce comprehensive medical records they should be whacked hard by ASADA.

One thing this case has shown is how easy it is to get away with doping just by losing a few records. This is a professional sport and medicos / coaches should act like professionals - Keep records. There's only 1 reason you wouldn't keep the records and that is to hide doping.

Not sure if this can be done in hindsight though... I thought there was a rule in the code that already addressed failure to produce records however it seems ASADA never followed up from this angle?
Click to expand...

I agree. Next time any person is accused of something by any government agency if they can't come up with documentation that disproves the agencies claims they should be whacked. Even if the agency has no actual evidence of their claims.
 
I think the WADA and AFL code both need amending to make failure to keep medical records without a valid excuse an offense tantamount to doping. It would of course first have to be proven that medial procedures such as injections have occurred for the offence to be made out.
 
fishardansin said:
I agree. Next time any person is accused of something by any government agency if they can't come up with documentation that disproves the agencies claims they should be whacked. Even if the agency has no actual evidence of their claims.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what to make of your sarcastic reply - I suspect you know that is not what I was saying.

I'm not suggesting they have to prove they didn't do it - What I'm saying is that from a compliance perspective clubs must be able to show records of everything the players has taken. If they can't and ASADA believes there may have been foul play - Stiff shit, 2 years for no records.

Are you suggesting that next time a club is investigated for doping it is fine for them to just throw up their hands and say "Sorry, lost all the records!"?

You don't think that could create a few problems down the track?
 
Duckworth said:
Essendon the club have been punished for their shortcomings of 2012 - poor governance. What you are seeing from the supporters as 'we won' is as much relief that there is an end to this as anything else.

I'm not sure why you should feel entitled to have the opinion that EFC have given banned drugs to players - when the result of a 2.5 year investigation and 2 judges and a barrister can unanimously say that they are comfortably satisfied that it didn't happen.
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Sure, they were punished for governance, but I understand there is a rule that requires the club to keep records.
 
fishardansin said:
No that was our littel reward for us. Watching Caro's team go down to the team that actually finished 9th and Carlton getting some false sense of security that stopped them doing the root and branch rebuild required has, along with pick 19 last year (which was also made better by Carlton not picking Laverde), has allowed us to scramble out of this.
Click to expand...
So you didn't get a big punishment. Which is it?
 
Just out of interest, (if it came down to it) what do people think is more important out of these 2:

A) ensuring the players escape sanction or

B) finding out what they were injected with?
 
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BlueWorld said:
So you didn't get a big punishment. Which is it?
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It was the biggest punishment of all time. However, thanks to the strength of the greatest supporter base in the land the club has scrambled through and is now still in a position to strike.
 
Personally I think "no records" should be basically the same as guilty. There's no legitimate reason why you would "forget" to maintain a record of what you injected, so that should be seen as sufficient proof that something dodgy was going on.

And, if people wanted to dope, they couldn't hide behind the dog-ate-my-homework excuse. They'd have to actively falsify records and doctor the books, which is much more work and a lot more obvious, making it more likely their lies and bullshit will unravel.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Agree with OP. I feel an appropriate penalty would be

- removal from finals series for one season
- removal of first and second round draft picks for two years
- fine, lets say $2 million
- 12 month suspension for the coach. missed the word "paid" before suspension

That should do it. Heaviest penalties in the games history.
Click to expand...
EFA
 
scalesofjustice said:
I see that Essendon posters are confusing the governance penalties with what now should be new and much more severe penalties for not providing medical records of what was administered to individuals.
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hey cool thread before man really
 
fishardansin said:
It was the biggest punishment of all time. However, thanks to the strength of the greatest supporter base in the land the club has scrambled through and is now still in a position to strike.
Click to expand...
That's debatable. Carlton and crows had bigger draft penalties. Of course they didn't endanger the health of their players and have no records.
 
scalesofjustice said:
I see that Essendon posters are confusing the governance penalties with what now should be new and much more severe penalties for not providing medical records of what was administered to individuals.
Click to expand...

Yeah, your right. That has nothing to do with governance...

You do realise that the 'no records' thing didn't just get discovered last week yeah? It's not new, no matter how much you want it to be.
 
BlueWorld said:
That's debatable. Carlton and crows had bigger draft penalties. Of course they didn't endanger the health of their players and have no records.
Click to expand...
But Carlton did straight up cheat. Although it is not proven that EFC has done so in this case.
 
Now that the tribunal is finished with their investigation WorkCover can now finish off theirs. This will see Essendon undoubtedly fined for failing to provide an unsafe workplace. The consequences of this for Essendon could be far reaching as if found guilty it gives any player still at the club grounds to automatically become an unrestricted free agent due to Essendon breaching their duty of care to provide a safe workplace as laid out in employment contracts. If any player leaves under these grounds then Essendon should not be entitled to compensation in my opinion.
 

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I'm not satisfied. Should Essendon be punished for failure to provide Medical Records?

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