I'm proud that my club is tanking!

[Wonaeamirri33]

I could answer you, and both I and other Demons fans have a very good idea about which of our young players will have a decent crack at AA in the future.

But since I don't think I could make a dent in these pre-conceived notions of yours with anything short of C4 explosives, I'm not too sure whether there's a point.

You seem to just reflexively discount every single thing we say based on your own fixed ideas, which aren't really based on any actual knowledge that I can see, because as far as I can tell, you've hardly seen any of our matches.

No, I back Embers on this....

An Eagles fan with an obvious bias, who's not seen many of our matches, backing up another Eagles fan in the same position. Quelle surprise!

 

[Embers]

I could answer you, and both I and other Demons fans have a very good idea about which of our young players will have a good crack at AA in the future.

But since I don't think I could make a dent in these pre-conceived notions of yours with anything short of C4 explosives, I'm not too sure whether there's a point.

You seem to just reflexively discount every single thing we say based on your own fixed ideas, which aren't really based on any actual knowledge that I can see, because as far as I can tell, you've hardly seen any of our matches.

Wouldnt expect you to dodge the question. Man up and answer it. Who from your list is a AA in 2 years time

 

[Trav 20]

Um, the Saints were in finals contention for the past few years and haven't won a spoon for quite some time. It takes a long time to shrug off (ask Carlton) and you cannot seriously expect to throw a couple of 18 year olds into the team straight away and expect a big upturn in results.

Fair play, they may be good in time, but at the moment they're crap.

Here's something for perspective too:

Daniel Kerr and Ben Cousins (technically) were not top 10 draft picks. Cox was a rookie list player and only got his chance when Gardy's, uh, 'problems' developed. Judd wasn't the first picked.

It helps, but having a priority pick and/or higher draft picks is no guarantee of success.

Who says we expect immediate success ?

The Saints best players bar one are first round draft picks, and I forgot to add Dal Santo, who was another. Yes they've been good for some time, but it's on the back of these top picks that they're a chance to win a flag. And winning a flag is what I'm talking about.

Carlton may or may not win one, but it will be on the back of Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, and Kreuzer if they do. Guess what ? They're all top 3 draft picks.

Hawthorn won a flag on the back of top 5 draft picks.

What do Brad Johnson, Robert Murphy, Adam Cooney, Ryan Griffen and Shaun Higgins have in common ? They are first round draft picks and little wonder that they are amongst their best players.

Geelong have two of the most amazing Father/Sons in history coupled with Bartel, Corey, Selwood, and Ottens - all first rounders. Stephen Wells talent identification with other picks has made him the best in the business.

But Embers doesn't rate our kids. Big deal, Son

 

[kfleong2000]

Dunno about Embers, but I live in WA.

Where I only see Demons games if they play the Dockers or Eagles or make one of their rare appearances on a Friday night.

For instance, here they opted for Richmond v Sydney on the weekend over North v Melb. Not my fault if I can't be arsed watching games from the last placed team on the ladder

 

[Trav 20]

but I think you're delusional if you expect instant vast improvement. Or to even challenge for the premiership in three years.

I agree. Our premiership window is 5-7 years away.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Colin Sylvia for one. And Davey of course, who should make AA this year if there's any objectivity to it.

And Jack Grimes & Cale Morton, I think have a very good chance in the future, along with Garland and Frawley, Rivers and McLean, Jurrah, Wonaeamirri, depending on whether he'll be affected significantly by his LTI or not. Petterd, who's put in consistently strong performances lately, would also be a chance in the future, and even guys like Moloney and Jamar if they continue to improve as they have been this season.

I don't doubt that you'll prob automatically discount almost everything that I've said, although given that I've watched a lot more Demons matches than you guys, that would be a mistake.

 

[Embers]

Who says we expect immediate success ?

The Saints best players bar one are first round draft picks, and I forgot to add Dal Santo, who was another. Yes they've been good for some time, but it's on the back of these top picks that they're a chance to win a flag. And winning a flag is what I'm talking about.

Carlton may or may not win one, but it will be on the back of Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, and Kreuzer if they do. Guess what ? They're all top 3 draft picks.

Hawthorn won a flag on the back of top 5 draft picks.

What do Brad Johnson, Robert Murphy, Adam Cooney, Ryan Griffen and Shaun Higgins have in common ? They are first round draft picks and little wonder that they are amongst their best players.

Geelong have two of the most amazing Father/Sons in history coupled with Bartel, Corey, Selwood, and Ottens - all first rounders. Stephen Wells talent identification with other picks has made him the best in the business.

But Embers doesn't rate our kids. Big deal, Son

If your fand cant name a single potential AA player in the next 2 years well then you dont rate your list either. Your just pretending you do.

Isnt the fact Carlton have Judd Murphy Gibbs Kruezer and you have Watts Morton Frawley the thing that is well worrying?

 

[Major Colvin]

Who from your list is gonna be All Australian in 1-2 years time. And dont say Jack Watts because we all know its not gonna happen. Best I could find was maybe Grimes at a HBF at a massive stretch. Other then that no real standouts on your list atm

Firstly, how do you knows whats going to happen with Jack Watts? LOL. this board makes me laugh. I think at one stage or another every number 1 pick in the existence of BigFooty has been labelled a dud.

As for AA's, no idea. why 2 years anyway? I reckon Grimes and Jurrah will be stars. Sylvia, Bate, Martin, Morton, Petterd will all be very good. McLean, Jones, Cheney, Woneamirri, Davey, Watts, (lets face it, Scully + 1). I'm not at all concerned about Watts. Naitanui looks a good prospect. Why is there all this animosity now between WCE and Melb supporters. We're both happy with our picks. FFS its petty comparing them now.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

If your fand cant name a single potential AA player in the next 2 years well then you dont rate your list either. Your just pretending you do.

Isnt the fact Carlton have Judd Murphy Gibbs Kruezer and you have Watts Morton Frawley the thing that is well worrying?

No. Only to people who know less about our players than we do.

And, I have done what you were asking and made a list of future prospects in this regard.

Also, since WE are speaking as supporters who watch every Demons match and follow these players closely, unlike Eagles supporters, who obviously wouldn't - it's very silly to be disregarding our more informed opinions on this subject.

 

[Embers]

Colin Sylvia for one. And Davey of course, who should make AA this year if there's any objectivity to it.

And Jack Grimes & Cale Morton, I think have a very good chance in the future, along with Garland and Frawley, Rivers and McLean, Jurrah, Wonaeamirri, depending on whether he'll be affected significantly by his LTI or not. Petterd, who's put in consistently strong performances lately, would also be a chance in the future, and even guys like Moloney and Jamar if they continue to improve as they have been this season.

I don't doubt that you'll prob automatically discount almost everything that I've said, although given that I've watched a lot more Demons matches than you guys, that would be a mistake.

So in 2 years Frawley will be a better full back than Matthew Scarlett , and Garlands gonna be a better CHB than Nathan Bock

Davey I will give you. Colin Sylvia. Ah no. Who out of LeCras, Didak etc is he gonna overtake for a HFF spot in the next year or two?

McLean is too injury prone for AA. Ditto Rivers who isnt all that fantastic anyway. Cale Morton will have to wait in line behind Matt Rosa quite frankly... Grimes is a slight chance. The other blokes arnt even worth discussing (because they are worse than Matt Rosa IMO)

So in general you have Davey and Grimes as two AA chances in the next 2 years..... Worrying I would of thought

 

[kfleong2000]

I don't doubt that you'll prob automatically discount almost everything that I've said, although given that I've watched a lot more Demons matches than you guys, that would be a mistake.

And you're still entitled to rip into Eagles youngsters when it's given that I've watched more Eagles matches than you? Or is it just a Bay 13 thing?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

In case you didn't notice KF, I rarely do that outside of the Bay, and only then in response to similar comments about our players.

Plus I make a pretty clear distinction between when I'm taking the piss, or otherwise trolling, and when I'm not.

The lack of emoticons is usually a pretty good sign of seriousness by the way

Of course you'd know a lot more about your players than a Demons supporter like me, I mean, it'd be weird if that wasn't the case.

That's why I've never tried to make any kind of serious claim about the future prospects of your players on the main board, as you'd probably have noticed.

Worrying I would of thought

No, it isn't.

Once again, you're making a series of assumptions and propagating a claim based on them, then expecting us to take that seriously.

We don't.

And if it was one of us making such sweeping and inaccurate claims about your players based on very limited knowledge, as you are now, you would be saying exactly what I am, I reckon.

And, as Keithy said earlier, why 2 years anyway? That's a VERY arbitrary framework I'd say. Which is why I didn't refer to it in my response.

 

[Embers]

Firstly, how do you knows whats going to happen with Jack Watts? LOL. this board makes me laugh. I think at one stage or another every number 1 pick in the existence of BigFooty has been labelled a dud.

As for AA's, no idea. why 2 years anyway? I reckon Grimes and Jurrah will be stars. Sylvia, Bate, Martin, Morton, Petterd will all be very good. McLean, Jones, Cheney, Woneamirri, Davey, Watts, (lets face it, Scully + 1). I'm not at all concerned about Watts. Naitanui looks a good prospect. Why is there all this animosity now between WCE and Melb supporters. We're both happy with our picks. FFS its petty comparing them now.

I didnt say Watt was gonna be a dud. Just that hes not gonna be AA in 2 years time

Well how long is it gonna take then? Wonamerri and co are going on like its gonna be next year for finals they are so happy with the way things are going

Sorry but you need more than 2 stars to win a flag nowadays. Atleast 6

 

[Embers]

In case you didn't notice KF, I rarely do that outside of the Bay, and only then in response to similar comments about our players.

Plus I make a pretty clear distinction between when I'm taking the piss, or otherwise trolling, and when I'm not.

The lack of emoticons is usually a pretty good sign of seriousness by the way



No, it isn't.

Once again, you're making a series of assumptions and propagating a claim based on them, then expecting us to take that seriously.

We don't.

And if it was one of us making such sweeping and inaccurate claims about your players based on very limited knowledge, as you are now, you would be saying exactly what I am, I reckon.

Your the one making assumptions about my knowledge. Would of seen the Demons more than any other Vic tea, this year as i do like betting against them on the line. Atleast 10 times. Way more times than you have seen the Eagles from Brisbane Id comfortably say

 

[RandB]

So in general you have Davey and Grimes as two AA chances in the next 2 years..... Worrying I would of thought

AA isn't really gospel though. Hawthorn had 2 players in the 2008 AA team and managed a flag similar to Sydney in '05 and Port in '04. Their lists were pretty talented but it still goes to show that a few years with young talent can bring about a great team (maybe not Sydney as much). Any developing team's priority is to develop a good squad and then accolades such as AA come later. Now is the least likely time we will pluck out AA candidates in the Melbourne line up.

 

[kfleong2000]

Fair enough then about the Bay 13.

Sylvia's been in the system for five years hasn't he? Considering he was dropped for disciplinary issues in Round 1 (and had that recent lengthy suspension) he's at risk of fading away.

Davey has toned down the flash and upped the work rate, but can his body handle it?

Grimes? One word - back.

Jurrah and Wona - too raw at the moment. Plus Wona must have some chronic injury doubts surely after missing all of 2009.

Watts - haven't seen enough of him yet

Morton - needs more muscle and can he really shake the opponent's best tagger?

Frawley and Garland - dour defenders at best and offer little, attacking wise.

But that's just my opinion based on reports, news and a few Melbourne games.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Appreciate that response as well mate.

It's been a LONG wait for Sylvia to realise his potential, but that's certainly been happening this season.

He was back in the team for the North Melbourne game, and was BOG for us in my opinion- he's been BOG for us a number of times this year, and so has Davey.

Davey's been a consistently excellent performer for us week in and week out this season as well - I wouldn't be surprised if he makes AA this year.

As far as Jack Grimes goes... yeah, he's had some major back troubles on and off thus far, which is probably why the club are taking particular care of him this time around. Hopefully he will have a good pre-season and be 100% next year.

Aussie had a great first season last year - well, two-thirds of a season anyway. I'm not sure if the injury trouble he had this year will have a substantial effect on him next year, but I hope it doesn't.

Frawley and Garland have been excellent defenders for us whenever they've been in the side, and they've been consistent. I'm very confident they will continue on in the same way, and keep improving at a similar rate.

And as far as Cale Morton goes, he's been superb this year. Getting lots of the ball (and a decent amount of contested ball as well), with a VERY high efficiency rate - 80% and above.

Like the other players we're talking about here (and the ones I haven't mentioned in this post), he's obviously got plenty of improvement left. And he'll get even better once he's progressed further in physical development, of course.

And speaking of matchups, he successfully shut down Adam Goodes at Manuka recently.

 

[stickman11]

These comments are spot-on, it may surprise some Melbourne fans, but you are not actually tanking, the reality is you have a shocking list that will take another three drafts to rebuild, tanking is so over-rated for teams that are ACTUALLY very ordinary to say the least.

Better than having a list that relies on Judd and Fevola to win

 

[EOP26]

Scully and Trengrove over a couple of late season meaningless wins thanks.

The Dees are taking advantage of the last un-compromised draft and are that close to getting picks 1,2 and 18 to add to our expanding young talent.

I'm sure if your club was in the same position, you'd expect the same tactics displayed by Melbourne.

So you are proud of winning the Wooden Spoon - That is a first.

 

[Trav 20]

Worrying I would of thought

What's worrying is your command of the English language

Morton, Watts, Grimes, Blease, Scully, Strauss, Maric, Garland, Jurrah, Bennell, Frawley are going to be great players and all are potentially AA, along with Davey and Sylvia.

Btw, Frawley is now 195cms.

You're best worrying about the kicking skills of your vanilla mids.

 

[stickman11]

Exactly, Carlton with all those picks are only just making the finals, yet still a bit off the pace and they also got to add one of the top 3 players in the game to those draft picks, something I can't see Melbourne ever managing to do. The whole time they had been tanking other teams have been able to drop out and then get back into the 8 and compete while still getting good players.

Look at Adelaide, they actually have quite a young playing list who personally I would take over the youngsters Melbourne have stockpiled and they have basically been a finals side for the last decade. Think of all the number 1 picks who were not the best player in the draft, there are heaps...tanking is yet to reward anyone imo.

The difference is Carlton had to fill their team with floggs from othersides. We are well into our youth policey - the talent is there unlike Carlton who haven't recruited well in the key position areas.

The more people write our list off, the better for us when the young players start to shine.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I only see Melbourne when North plays them, and for almost all the game time I've seen in the past two years, they have been beyond appalling. If I supported them, I'd need to believe they were doing it on purpose and find something, anything to take pride in.

And kudos to the Melbourne supporters who came yesterday - you are the bravest of the brave. The rest who could have come but didn't should be ashamed to look you in the face.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I only see Melbourne when North plays them, and for almost all the game time I've seen in the past two years, they have been beyond appalling. If I supported them, I'd need to believe they were doing it on purpose and find something, anything to take pride in.

And kudos to the Melbourne supporters who came yesterday - you are the bravest of the brave. The rest who could have come but didn't should be ashamed to look you in the face.

Well H2H, I don't think any of us Demons expected a 5-star performance from our guys yesterday, considering that, like I've said, we have TWENTY players out injured at the moment, 11 of those in our best 22- an even higher injury toll than we had for the Sydney & Richmond matches.

Realistically, it would have been a pretty big achievement for us to win under those circumstances.

PS- Kudos to both the Demons supporters and the North Melbourne supporters who did go to that game I'd say... the turnout was poor from both sides IMO.

 

[whelan=legend]

I only see Melbourne when North plays them

Stopped reading there.

Do you think you have a valid opinion from that?

 

[Rimmer]

Open letter to ... 'I am proud my club is tanking'

You are a loser and an embarrassment to all true Melbourne supporters. Most Melbourne supporters are enduring this failure only taking some small comfort in the draft pick concessions.

Draft choices alone do not win premierships.

To the Melbourne people out there who love their club you have my sympathies, all clubs have some vermin in their ranks, he is nameless here on the boards but he is every guy you see at the footy singing the oppositions club song when your team loses.