Roast Inner Feral Fan Unleashed - Warning - Unbridled, passionate, and objectionable opinions within

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agro said:
I’ll listen to 3AW all day long - but Titus O’Reilly now on with Jacqui Felgate - now switching off 🙄

I’d prefer Tim Watson and Kane Cornes double than that tool O’Reilly
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yep Titus has two jokes, Melbourne supporters being rich snobs, and Collingwood/Richmond supporters being bogan criminals
 
Not Carlton related (so mods please delete if not relevant), but I need to unleash on petty, factional, small-minded, short-sighted junior footy club cultures which cater to nepotistic self-serving cabals and cliques at the expense of growing the game in non-traditional markets (Canberra in this case) and the development of aspiring junior footballers.
 
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Blue Reaper said:
Not Carlton related (so mods please delete if not relevant), but I need to unleash on petty, factional, small-minded, short-sighted junior footy club cultures which cater to nepotistic self-serving cabals and cliques at the expense of growing the game in non-traditional markets (Canberra in this case) and the development of aspiring junior footballers. My boy and I have some decisions to make.
Click to expand...


It happens at every level of all sports - the committees are filled with parents who are only there to boost their kids.

Both the kids and the parents usually get found and weeded out in the end - but you’re right it is an issue.

But at the end of the day if it wasn’t for parental volunteers there would be no (or very little) junior sport, so we need to accept the good with the bad, but by all means the bad should be called out.

We used to tell whingy parents, please join the committee and help us.
 
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Arr0w said:
I feel a few have already breached the compound and trying their hardest to get a rise
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I find the worst are those passionately invested in results and outcomes, with no regard for the actual participants and official. They owe the club, by extension ARGUABLY us their best efforts, no more.

I have no problem with researched and reasoned comments, even “tasteful” criticism, but no time for those regarding players as insensitive pieces of “meat”.
 
I've just come back from reading the postmatch thread on the Collingwood board, and it got me thinking.

The only difference between Collingwood of the last three seasons and Collingwood under Buckley has been increased continuity of players, the rising force of their younger brigade (Quaynor, Daicos x2, McCreery, Murphy, Noble) and those traded in (Hill, Lipinski, Frampton) and goal kicking accuracy. Everything else - absolutely everything - is the same.

The gameplan Bucks took to a grand final in 2017 was running forward in waves, always relying in having an additional handball option available when/if you ran into trouble. They went the forward handball a lot, they could and did kick low and hard to their forwards, Cox and Mihocek.

... which is their exact game right now.

Does Fly use what he has a little differently? Cox to the ruck is something Bucks tried first. Moore to the backline is something Bucks did first. Bucks never had Nick Daicos, and Josh wasn't the player then that he is now. Fly trusts his players more certainly, and is much more willing to lose a position to prove a point; early in his tenure, Moore was criticized hard for being a poor one on one defender and getting bags kicked on him to demonstrate that for Moore to work he needed an offsider; enter Murphy.

Then we get to the real difference, beyond cattle: goalkicking accuracy.

Under Bucks, they kicked more or less with the AFL average. Under Fly, they go through patches where they simply do not ****ing miss. It makes sense that Elliott is an accurate shot for goal; the bloke's a gun and has been for a looooong time. But they simply did not miss critical shots for two years; in 2022, if they needed to kick a shot they nailed it regardless of where they shot from, and nuff said about last year.

It's noteworthy that Collingwood supporters are bemoaning at present how they're missing 'gettable' shots; are the shots they're missing actually 100% kickable 100% of the time, is it realistic to expect to kick them every time? They've just gone through two seasons of not missing; of COURSE they're going to have unrealistic expectations of what gets kicked and what doesn't.

Onto the point of this...

Melbourne went through a patch in which they too couldn't miss. From late 2021 to about halfway through 2022, they were an unstoppable juggernaut because they were both miserly in defense and brutal in attack. Fritsch was a deadeye, Kosi was an unstoppable force and one of the best on the run kicks for goal in the comp; Tom MacDonald was able to compete in the air and if he got a shot he'd nail it. Petracca emerged and couldn't miss either; Gawn was in the form of his life and could bomb them from outside 50. Then, out of seemingly nowhere, they lost it; MacDonald either got injured or went missing, Gawn came down from heaven, Petracca is still awesome but lost that ability to not miss, Fritsch got figured out and started to miss the shots he'd nail, Kosi seemed to get distracted by the prospect of hurting people and started going for a wander where before he was as focused as anyone onfield.

They went from kicking 120 points pretty much every game to struggling to kick 70+.

For pretty much ever since, they occasionally find a bit of fluency and they'll make it rain for a game or two in a row. Everyone will tell us to look out, they're back, oh no; but, it fades because of course it does. You don't get fortune like that for free.

Now, to describe it entirely as good fortune is to understate what coaches do and the amount of work players undertake, but there is still - when all the expertise has been accounted for, when all the work and practice and grunt effort through pain has been undertaken - an aspect of luck into any run of good form. You're going to see runs in which a team (or teams) win by small margins and pundits will contemplate 'what they do differently' to the teams that continue to lose by small margins, but in the fullness of time it's a matter of probability.

In the same way, goal kicking accuracy is a function of probability.

Collingwood have won their flag and have every reason to be a mite complacent. Their coach is famous for his laid back attitude; now, professional sportspeople do a hell of a lot of work and there's no ****ing around in that, but he's not going to bake them for being off for a few weeks. He'll back himself to turn their form around, and he will.

But goal kicking accuracy is not form.

Unless they can get back to where they were - kicking on average 10-20% better than their opposition from all positions on the ground - they're not better than a side that sits 4-10, based purely on injuries. They're still strong - they've not had Pendlebury and Sidebottom drop off yet - but injuries have played a role in both opening round and round 2.

But without that impossible accuracy, they're extremely gettable.
 
Gethelred said:
I've just come back from reading the postmatch thread on the Collingwood board, and it got me thinking.

The only difference between Collingwood of the last three seasons and Collingwood under Buckley has been increased continuity of players, the rising force of their younger brigade (Quaynor, Daicos x2, McCreery, Murphy, Noble) and those traded in (Hill, Lipinski, Frampton) and goal kicking accuracy. Everything else - absolutely everything - is the same.

The gameplan Bucks took to a grand final in 2017 was running forward in waves, always relying in having an additional handball option available when/if you ran into trouble. They went the forward handball a lot, they could and did kick low and hard to their forwards, Cox and Mihocek.

... which is their exact game right now.

Does Fly use what he has a little differently? Cox to the ruck is something Bucks tried first. Moore to the backline is something Bucks did first. Bucks never had Nick Daicos, and Josh wasn't the player then that he is now. Fly trusts his players more certainly, and is much more willing to lose a position to prove a point; early in his tenure, Moore was criticized hard for being a poor one on one defender and getting bags kicked on him to demonstrate that for Moore to work he needed an offsider; enter Murphy.

Then we get to the real difference, beyond cattle: goalkicking accuracy.

Under Bucks, they kicked more or less with the AFL average. Under Fly, they go through patches where they simply do not ******* miss. It makes sense that Elliott is an accurate shot for goal; the bloke's a gun and has been for a looooong time. But they simply did not miss critical shots for two years; in 2022, if they needed to kick a shot they nailed it regardless of where they shot from, and nuff said about last year.

It's noteworthy that Collingwood supporters are bemoaning at present how they're missing 'gettable' shots; are the shots they're missing actually 100% kickable 100% of the time, is it realistic to expect to kick them every time? They've just gone through two seasons of not missing; of COURSE they're going to have unrealistic expectations of what gets kicked and what doesn't.

Onto the point of this...

Melbourne went through a patch in which they too couldn't miss. From late 2021 to about halfway through 2022, they were an unstoppable juggernaut because they were both miserly in defense and brutal in attack. Fritsch was a deadeye, Kosi was an unstoppable force and one of the best on the run kicks for goal in the comp; Tom MacDonald was able to compete in the air and if he got a shot he'd nail it. Petracca emerged and couldn't miss either; Gawn was in the form of his life and could bomb them from outside 50. Then, out of seemingly nowhere, they lost it; MacDonald either got injured or went missing, Gawn came down from heaven, Petracca is still awesome but lost that ability to not miss, Fritsch got figured out and started to miss the shots he'd nail, Kosi seemed to get distracted by the prospect of hurting people and started going for a wander where before he was as focused as anyone onfield.

They went from kicking 120 points pretty much every game to struggling to kick 70+.

For pretty much ever since, they occasionally find a bit of fluency and they'll make it rain for a game or two in a row. Everyone will tell us to look out, they're back, oh no; but, it fades because of course it does. You don't get fortune like that for free.

Now, to describe it entirely as good fortune is to understate what coaches do and the amount of work players undertake, but there is still - when all the expertise has been accounted for, when all the work and practice and grunt effort through pain has been undertaken - an aspect of luck into any run of good form. You're going to see runs in which a team (or teams) win by small margins and pundits will contemplate 'what they do differently' to the teams that continue to lose by small margins, but in the fullness of time it's a matter of probability.

In the same way, goal kicking accuracy is a function of probability.

Collingwood have won their flag and have every reason to be a mite complacent. Their coach is famous for his laid back attitude; now, professional sportspeople do a hell of a lot of work and there's no ******* around in that, but he's not going to bake them for being off for a few weeks. He'll back himself to turn their form around, and he will.

But goal kicking accuracy is not form.

Unless they can get back to where they were - kicking on average 10-20% better than their opposition from all positions on the ground - they're not better than a side that sits 4-10, based purely on injuries. They're still strong - they've not had Pendlebury and Sidebottom drop off yet - but injuries have played a role in both opening round and round 2.

But without that impossible accuracy, they're extremely gettable.
Click to expand...
Bucks had the technicals and tactics down. Fly brought in a better culture it's just a 5% lift in support, confidence hard work etc and those patches of never missing shots etc come. Think Voss has set up a really good atmosphere with Cook at Carlton se we'll give it a shake. Feels a happier place than Brisbane.

I honestly believe Melbourne area outlier as a premiership club. Just won in spite of partying, attitude etc etc
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
Bucks had the technicals and tactics down. Fly brought in a better culture it's just a 5% lift in support, confidence hard work etc and those patches of never missing shots etc come. Think Voss has set up a really good atmosphere with Cook at Carlton se we'll give it a shake. Feels a happier place than Brisbane.

I honestly believe Melbourne area outlier as a premiership club. Just won in spite of partying, attitude etc etc
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Covid premiership for Melbourne. Compromised season
 
Last season, there was a good 6-8 week block that Nic Newman played that I think would stack up almost against any half back in history. He went through a period where he didn't just rarely make mistakes but took on the most challenging option almost every time and if he ****ed it up was able to go in and clean up his own work. He was nigh untackleable, he was able to wrongfoot opposition with his sidestep, and off both feet he was lethal.

I don't know if he'll ever get quite that high again, but he was a huge driver of the early part of that resurgence last year and a huge reason why we started scoring super heavily. His regression was also correspondingly the reason our scoring started to dry up; without him scything through midfield with dangerous long kicks, we lack serious penetration by foot. Williams is a lovely kick, but he hits 30-35m passes well; compare this to Boyd who can hit a tall 50m away pretty comfortably. Doc is a long kick and so is Acres. Cincotta is pretty reliable across the board too, but he's not quite as good at range as Boyd is. Saad is a wonderful player, as he allows us to cheat by him being an excellent kick over 35m but by him running at least 15m before he kicks we manage to get at least 50m out of him first; he's made me eat my words prior to getting him multiple times over.

I have some very real concerns about how we're going to deal with our outs now that we have in part cultivated a transition game based on incisive disposal through midfield and back half on turnover when we simply do not have the quality of disposal to back it up. We had better go back to demolishing sides around the ball, but no Cerra, Carrol or Dow will make that tricky as well and it gets exposed by teams able to get the ball away from the in tight and to the second ring around a stoppage; teams that can make their superior legspeed count.

Because we would have about one of the slowest midfield groups by footspeed in the comp.
 
It is becoming genuinely difficult to remain positive about this team with the constant barrage of injuries that occur weekly. We are about to enter a five week patch in our fixture where play Giants, Cats, Pies, Dees and Swans, who would all be expected to be a top 4 contender in 2024. It is great to bank some wins early but we need to be putting up strong performances against these teams if we want to give ourselves a shot at a top-4 finish.

Our injury list is borderline depressing at the moment with Cerra, McGovern, Saad, Martin, Motlop, Fogarty, Docherty, Silvagni, Cuningham, Marchbank, and then potentially Cincotta as well. "Next man up" is all good and well to say but it can only get you so far - it doesn't matter what sort of depth you have no team can cope with that quality and quantity of players unavailable. We probably have 35-37 players on our list that are capable of playing AFL football in 2024 and with 11 of them unavailable it makes it very difficult for the MC to put a competitive team together, especially against the quality of teams we have coming up.

I truly hope we get some of these players back ASAP and/or they prove me wrong and just find a way to get some important results over the next month or so. It may not be pretty and it may not be comfortable but we just need to find a way.
 

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Carlton supporters need to HTFU. Lose one and its a crisis, disaster and we won't win for the next 4-6 weeks. Its a ****ing sport. You win some and you lose some. Its not a ****ing catastrophe to lose a game.

Back them. They will respond. Next player up.
 
Gethelred said:
I have some very real concerns about how we're going to deal with our outs now
get exposed by teams able to get the ball away from the in tight and to the second ring around a stoppage; teams that can make their superior legspeed count.

Because we would have about one of the slowest midfield groups by footspeed in the comp.
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The next block of games(fast ball moving units like Giants, Pies, Melb. Swans, Suns and Port) will really test our resources.
No Gov, Saad and Cunners, Walsh the lone hard running mid and possibly behomoth's like Pitto and Young included.
I'm looking forward to the challenge, our coaching/selection group will have to prove themselves.
At least it's early in the season to be exposed to these issues and some 'magnet moving', which I haven't seen much of, might be necessary.
 
The Blue Weirdo said:
The next block of games(fast ball moving units like Giants, Pies, Melb. Swans, Suns and Port) will really test our resources.
No Gov, Saad and Cunners, Walsh the lone hard running mid and possibly behomoth's like Pitto and Young included.
I'm looking forward to the challenge, our coaching/selection group will have to prove themselves.
At least it's early in the season to be exposed to these issues and some 'magnet moving', which I haven't seen much of, might be necessary.
Click to expand...
Find A Way.
 
The Blue Weirdo said:
The next block of games(fast ball moving units like Giants, Pies, Melb. Swans, Suns and Port) will really test our resources.
No Gov, Saad and Cunners, Walsh the lone hard running mid and possibly behomoth's like Pitto and Young included.
I'm looking forward to the challenge, our coaching/selection group will have to prove themselves.
At least it's early in the season to be exposed to these issues and some 'magnet moving', which I haven't seen much of, might be necessary.
Click to expand...
McGovern can be covered Saad is a loss.
Cunningham is irrelevant
Walsh is back and so is the proper midfield set up sans Cerra for another week

GWS will be tough - great test
I do not rate Collingwood and they ant handle Charlie and Harry
Melbourne is always a close match and who knows who will be back by then
Swans is always close
Suns - big deal
Port- we have their number

The positive out of all the injury stuff is that a few players will get the opportunity to stand up and we might find a player that really comes on out of it all.

Best to stop thinking about Marchbank and Cuningham and Martin- scrub them out of your thinking same as people constantly quoting the absence of Jack and Docherty- they are not relevant for the year at least - clean slate -

Next man up. No reason we cant win half these games at least if the team can get its nasty back.
 
JustaBattler said:
McGovern can be covered Saad is a loss.
Cunningham is irrelevant
Walsh is back and so is the proper midfield set up sans Cerra for another week

GWS will be tough - great test
I do not rate Collingwood and they ant handle Charlie and Harry
Melbourne is always a close match and who knows who will be back by then
Swans is always close
Suns - big deal
Port- we have their number

The positive out of all the injury stuff is that a few players will get the opportunity to stand up and we might find a player that really comes on out of it all.

Best to stop thinking about Marchbank and Cuningham and Martin- scrub them out of your thinking same as people constantly quoting the absence of Jack and Docherty- they are not relevant for the year at least - clean slate -

Next man up. No reason we cant win half these games at least if the team can get its nasty back.
Click to expand...
3 of 6 is break even for me
 
Gethelred said:
Last season, there was a good 6-8 week block that Nic Newman played that I think would stack up almost against any half back in history.
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Newman hit 3 targets inside 50 in the last quarter. A big reason we got the roll on. Doubt the whole team hit 3 targets inside 50 the whole game lol

Such a good kick. We need to find a way to have him kicking it more often. Unfortunately with Saad and Gov out and Williams defending not his strongsuit Newman is probably playing more defensively minded - until that patch in the last quarter where it was score or be damned.
 
If there is a silver lining to all this - and it'd want to be pretty ****ing shiny - it's that we now know unequivocally how important Saad and Doc are; rather, how important their roles are.

We've not been without Cripps for any amount of time so we can't tell whether he'd be just as important an out, but we are up shit creek at present because there's no intelligence about our game. We're more than predictable, we're basic; it's an either/or proposition. We go fast or ultra slow; we take the game on, or we don't, and there's precious small impetus in either direction from off field aside from at quarter time. It's why we seem to go the fast play when we should shut things down, why we go sideways or tempo when we need to go quick.

We desperately need more leadership in our transition game.
 
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100% agree regarding their importance. I was thinking earlier today, if we could replace Zac Williams with either Docherty OR Saad for the 3 recent losses, we'd have won 2 or even all 3 of those. Williams can look good on his day but he has been remarkably poor recently and a leader he definitely is not. So many better ways we could have spent that money.
 
no fate said:
100% agree regarding their importance. I was thinking earlier today, if we could replace Zac Williams with either Docherty OR Saad for the 3 recent losses, we'd have won 2 or even all 3 of those. Williams can look good on his day but he has been remarkably poor recently and a leader he definitely is not. So many better ways we could have spent that money.
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It is something that could turn around, though. Gov was absolutely done all of a year ago, and he's since lit it right up when fit.

Our back 6 looks much more dynamic when you've Doc, Boyd, Saad, Gov, Kemp/Marchbank, Newman in the team rather than Young, Williams, Cincotta. Even Cinc isn't too bad; needs time in the ones, and if he's lockdown it frees Boyd to be more discerning and attacking.
 

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Roast Inner Feral Fan Unleashed - Warning - Unbridled, passionate, and objectionable opinions within

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