Ins & Outs Vs Tigers

[anubis]

Why would you drop johnson he only had 9 clangers and three inaffective pozzies out of 16 not to mention the 4 free kicks against him.Johno needs to head off to the mark mcgough school of kicking would be a huge improvement.Hmm and this is what we dropped clarke for great call

 

[Jabso]

Ben Johnson needs to develop into a tagger if he wants to keep his spot beyond the next year or two. He certainly has the endurance to do it. If not, I wouldn't mind seeing him go back to a full-time back pocket, where he played some of his best football.

I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves as far as the decline of Johnson goes. Rumours of his demise are greatly exaggerated. He played his best football in 2006 where especially early on he was one the AFL's best running defenders/wingman and he found form as far as kicking goes. His kicking that year was a huge improvement, he just needs to get into the swing of things.

 

[mdc]

I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves as far as the decline of Johnson goes. Rumours of his demise are greatly exaggerated. He played his best football in 2006 where especially early on he was one the AFL's best running defenders/wingman and he found form as far as kicking goes. His kicking that year was a huge improvement, he just needs to get into the swing of things.

One year doesn't make a career.

His kicking was solid that year, but he's still got a shocking action with a slow release. Which is ok when your confidence is great and a lot of your possessions are coming off handball receives, but not otherwise.

Ultimately, Johnson should be in the 22 for now - but to maximize his effectiveness he should be more defensive (thus less ball for him and his opponent) and he needs to play deeper in the backline.

 

[Camo1902]

Okay so i was 1 of the blokes on Big Footy last week defending Chris Egan when a number of people jumped on him, but now i admit it....i was wrong. He just isn't willing to get his head over the pill or put his body on the line. His skills are very good but he's just not willing to do the 1 percenter.

So for that reason i'd drop Egan and bring Clarke back in. Also would love to see Reid get another crack but not sure who to drop for him.

 

[domus]

Toovey is not up to it as far as I'm concerned. He doesn't move like a natural footballer and makes far too many stupid decisions to instill any confidence in his ability to play at the top level.
Egan is simply one of the most frightened footballers to have ever tiptoed onto an oval. I don't care how quick or skilled he is-his refusal to put his body on the line is a disgrace when all of his teammates are constantly sacrificing their own. In the old terminology, Egan is a jib. I hope he can change his spots, but for now-he should be out!!
Clarkey in for Egan.

 

[bradrowe#32]

I want to see Stanley and Cook have another run in the seniors.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Just hearing Clarkson on Footy Classified talking about filling positions for their next premiership side. They got Dew, as they saw him as one of the 22 players to make up their next premiership side. One, or maybe both, of Rioli and Stokes are two more names to make up that 22 as well.

I am just wondering whether the next premiership side, or in the very least the next premiership contending footy side we're building towards, has Ben Johnson. At his best, no doubt Johno makes our best 22. And I'm not here suggesting he should be dropped for this week after one poor game after finishing his suspension.

I am saying though, that in the quest for forming that next premiership side, which we've been doing for the last few years (started with Thomas and Pendles for mine), is Johno in it, or is he taking a youngster's spot (Wellingham perhaps)?

Its a fair question because with the emergence of Brown in the last few weeks, we've identified our CHB for that premiership side. No certainty at this stage, 2 games into his career, but for us to win a flag, Browny holds down CHB. Same with trading for Wood. He holds down the ruck, or backup ruckman, in our next flag-contending side.

I'm a Johno fan. But are we holding back by not unleasing a Wellingham, a Stanley, or maybe a McCarthy, by not moving on someone like Johno when he's not going to make our next premiership team anyway. It worked for Browny, why can't it work for Stanners say?

Johno plays this week. But I'm starting to subscribe to the theory that form disregarding, there will be a few younger midfielders currently out of the side who should supercede him in the seniors sooner rather than later. I want that premiership, and I don't want Hawthorn gettting there first.

 

[Jabso]

One year doesn't make a career.

Yes but at the same time, one poor game does not mean you are in decline.

 

[anubis]

Unless your marty clarke put johnno in the magoos.I am not saying he has not been a great servant to the club, his tackle on burgoyne in the goal square is something i won't forget.Collingwood for years has had horrible kickings team i.e Mcgough, Licuria, R Shaw Tarrant for goal and johnno has never been reliable to name a few.We now have Pendles, Didak, Leon and Daisy whose delivery into the forward line is exceptional, Clarke adds to that where i think Ben leaves alot to be desired.As posted we need players who will take us to a flag and i see many other younger players who are better choices than him at the moment.

Cheers C.J
Being dyslexic i accidently sold my soul to santa.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Ben Johnson needs to develop into a tagger if he wants to keep his spot beyond the next year or two. He certainly has the endurance to do it. If not, I wouldn't mind seeing him go back to a full-time back pocket, where he played some of his best football.

I don't think Johnson is great man-on-man. Even when he was a defender, he was only OK, IMO. He's very vulnerable against any opponent who is decent overhead, and because he's so one-sided and erratic with this disposal, he's not a player I'd like to see spend too much time inside defensive 50.

I think his best football was as a hard-running half-back, whose main responsibility was to run and receive. He's quick and covers a lot of ground. And given time and space, his delivery is more reliable. But for mine, 'more reliable' is still not great, particularly when we have so many other players in the same boat, and particularly when the ability to hit targets becomes more important with each passing year.

Johnno, I hope, will be replaced by the likes of Wellingham, Clarke, and McCarthy.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Yes but at the same time, one poor game does not mean you are in decline.

He's coming off a poor year in 07, so it's more than one game that's really at issue. And with more talent on our list than at any time in the last 15 or so years, fringe players are rightfully coming under more scrutiny.

 

[checker]

i wouldnt drop johnson yet. itwas only he's first game back.

outs for me would be egan (obvious reasons) and Goldsack (rest/injury collision looked nasty)

In Iles for egan , definitely deserves more AFL games after good consist games in the VFL and Dawes for Goldsack see how he goes.

 

[anubis]

Ins Reid, Anthony, Clarke
Out Johnson, Egan, moneybags if injured


I would love to say Dawes but i doubt he will come in until rd 8 and will line up on the G-train, Brown/Roo, Wakes/Kosi

Cheers CJ
Being dyslexic i accidently sold my soul to santa

 

[mdc]

I don't think Johnson is great man-on-man. Even when he was a defender, he was only OK, IMO. He's very vulnerable against any opponent who is decent overhead, and because he's so one-sided and erratic with this disposal, he's not a player I'd like to see spend too much time inside defensive 50.

I think his best football was as a hard-running half-back, whose main responsibility was to run and receive. He's quick and covers a lot of ground. And given time and space, his delivery is more reliable. But for mine, 'more reliable' is still not great, particularly when we have so many other players in the same boat, and particularly when the ability to hit targets becomes more important with each passing year.

Sure, he's rubbish overhead, but I remember him being fairly tight as a defender otherwise. I certainly think he could do a good job on your Stokes/Buchanan types. There might not be one in every team though, which is why I think he has to try becoming a genuine tagger.

He can't persist with being our no.1 run-and-receive player (as he had been) because that's Clarke's responsibility now (despite the poor round 1 game).

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Sure, he's rubbish overhead, but I remember him being fairly tight as a defender otherwise. I certainly think he could do a good job on your Stokes/Buchanan types. There might not be one in every team though, which is why I think he has to try becoming a genuine tagger.

He can't persist with being our no.1 run-and-receive player (as he had been) because that's Clarke's responsibility now (despite the poor round 1 game).

I pretty much agree with your assessment of him. I'm not a fan of him as a defender, but if we need a second small defender with pace I suppose he's an option (Lockyer I'd prefer to see in the midfield). Johnno might work as a tagger in much the same way Rhyce is working at the moment. If Rhyce's primary responsibility is to negate the opposition's best mid, then you can wear him not being super-clean by foot. Same applies to Johnno.

I agree that if we're to take the next step our outside runners need to be cleaner by foot. We're in the frustrating position at the moment where many of our best runners are our least reliable users of the footy. That's the challenge confronting Egan. We can cop him being outside, IMO, if he can cover lots of ground and reliably hit targets. Whether he can do that remains to be seen.

Plus, I'm just itching to give Stanley and Wellingham a go. Stanley, in particular, has been made to work hard for a senior berth. Time for him to have a go-round.

 

[MarkT]

Johnson is hard nut and he has pace. We need more of both of those qualities not less. His disposal is not good enough and we need improvement there as well. Until someone comes along who provides all 3 and not just 2 of those qualities in the midfield then Johnson remains a required player. Give Stanley and Wellingham a run over the next month and see what they have with a view to making falls at the end of the year on either them or the incumbents they may replace. One way or another we have to make the calls so we need to see what we have.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Johnson is hard nut and he has pace. We need more of both of those qualities not less. His disposal is not good enough and we need improvement there as well. Until someone comes along who provides all 3 and not just 2 of those qualities in the midfield then Johnson remains a required player. Give Stanley and Wellingham a run over the next month and see what they have with a view to making falls at the end of the year on either them or the incumbents they may replace. One way or another we have to make the calls so we need to see what we have.

I don't think Johnson is a hard nut, Mark. He plays an outside run-and-receive game.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Ouch! - Benny.... 12 errors out of 16 touches.

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/game_stats?mid=2008009

Actually, I watched the game this morning, and these stats are misleading. There's no way only four of Johnsons possessions weren't errors. His kicked the ball OOB three times, but he wasn't as diabolical as these stats suggest.

 

[MarkT]

I don't think Johnson is a hard nut, Mark. He plays an outside run-and-receive game.

He does at times but he puts is head over the ball gets his hands dirty. I have often wished he'd play more often in the square at centre ball ups but he has been used a lot as a running half back in recent years.

 

[theone5]

J.Clement is obviously gone forever, which is sad because he was such a great backman but hypothetically, lets say this:
N.Maxwell is a certain starter on any given week.
T.Goldsack plays this week and also holds his spot for the rest of the year.
S.Wakelin picks up his slack and finishes off his career respectfully.
N.Brown keeps his form up.

If this was the case, then what most of you guys are saying is that J.Anthony will never get a game this year and that it will be even harder for him once S.Prestigiacomo comes back in.
I mean, from my reports, he can play as a flanker or even in the forward line?

Why not put him on the half back flank this week?
It is a great time to blood another youngster against Richmond.

 

[Kirby]

J.Clement is obviously gone forever, which is sad because he was such a great backman but hypothetically, lets say this:
N.Maxwell is a certain starter on any given week.
T.Goldsack plays this week and also holds his spot for the rest of the year.
S.Wakelin picks up his slack and finishes off his career respectfully.
N.Brown keeps his form up.

If this was the case, then what most of you guys are saying is that J.Anthony will never get a game this year and that it will be even harder for him once S.Prestigiacomo comes back in.
I mean, from my reports, he can play as a flanker or even in the forward line?

Why not put him on the half back flank this week?
It is a great time to blood another youngster against Richmond.

What you say does make sense, however, it is very unlikely that wakelin and presti will play in the same side. They are effectively competing for the one place.

JA's debut will largely depend upon the form and fitness of Goldsack and Maxwell, although due to his versatility he could get a role on the interchange.

 

[theone5]

What you say does make sense, however, it is very unlikely that wakelin and presti will play in the same side. They are effectively competing for the one place.

JA's debut will largely depend upon the form and fitness of Goldsack and Maxwell, although due to his versatility he could get a role on the interchange.

Well, MM has publicly stated that he is going to debut even more youngsters this year, including Anthony and Dawes (actually saying their names), so going by that, we know he will play this year.
It is a follow on from last year in order to develop the club for the future.
He has guts and it is working well for him as a coach, very well.

What i am saying though is that J.Anthony is more ready than any other player as he has been in the game for a few years now, his body is ready and he is in good form.
He deserves his chance and i think it is now.

Like i said, could the changes be this?
Out: Egan, Johnson
In: Anthony, Clarke or In: Anthony, Reid

I think MM will make more than 1 change coming off a loss.

 

[Bloben]

There is Harry O back there too.

I think it is safe to say (and I am touching wood) that we will be down a backman by either form, injury or suspension throughout the season.

 

[ClarkeM]

For mine in: Clarke, Toovey (best in reserves), Reid or Holland
out: Johnson, Egan, Goldsack (injured?)

Clarke is a definite and should replace Egan or Johnson.
Toovey apparently dominated in twos and Holland was also good.
Maybe Reid as another tall forward option

If Reid goes in it will be a Saviour for my Dreamteam

 

[4#Didak#4]

Out: Egan, Johnson
In: Clarke/Reid , Holland

Depending on matchups - possibly go with Ried if it stretches the Tigers backline - as Corey Jones did last week by having King man him up.

Holland I believe needs to come in and put a heavy tag on Foley.