Ins & Outs Vs Tigers

[checker]

i think were just wasting space having.. goldsack, maxwell,harry o, wakelyn and brown in the same team. 5 tall defenders, were lucky to find an opponent who has more then 3 tall forewards.

not to mention some people want to bring in another one JA.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Like i said, could the changes be this?
Out: Egan, Johnson
In: Anthony, Clarke or In: Anthony, Reid

I think there's a limit to how many tall/medium defenders one side can carry. We're already playing Wakelin, Brown, Maxwell, Goldsack, and O'Brien. I just don't see how we can add Anthony to that. We'd need to leave one of the incumbents out.

Anthony could play as a third forward. But it would be a strange decision to prefer him in this role to Reid.

 

[theone5]

I think there's a limit to how many tall/medium defenders one side can carry. We're already playing Wakelin, Brown, Maxwell, Goldsack, and O'Brien. I just don't see how we can add Anthony to that. We'd need to leave one of the incumbents out.

Anthony could play as a third forward. But it would be a strange decision to prefer him in this role to Reid.

I agree with everything you said.
Did you read my others posts above though?

With so many medium/talls in your backline already, it looks like J.Anthony might not play all year.
I mean, you could have him on the bench or put him on the BP, HB, HF or use him as a shut-down player in the backline or even use him permanently in the backline which will free up H.Shaw a bit more.

I do not know, so many options tossing around, but the point i am getting across is that from what most of you say, there is and will not be any room for him the entire season.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

I agree with everything you said.
Did you read my others posts above though?

No, I didn't actually.

With so many medium/talls in your backline already, it looks like J.Anthony might not play all year.

I think he'll play. At some point we'll get injuries. Plus, if Brown can hold his form, Wakelin's spot is probably shaky. Few sides have two monster forwards, so Wakelin won't be needed. And MM has already signalled his intention to play youngsters where he can.

I mean, you could have him on the bench or put him on the BP, HB, HF or use him as a shut-down player in the backline or even use him permanently in the backline which will free up H.Shaw a bit more.

Our mediums are all pretty athletic, but if we play too many we're gonna be vulnerable to forward lines that have a few pacy smalls. Only O'Brien has proven his ability to blanket a quick small forward. Which is to say, I think it'd be wrong to stack the defence with mediums in the belief that they're as suited to playing on smalls as they are to mediums/talls. I don't think they are.

JA will need to displace one of the existing medium/talls. Wakelin is on the thinnest ice IMO, simply because he's not gonna be part of our future.

 

[theone5]

No, I didn't actually.



I think he'll play. At some point we'll get injuries. Plus, if Brown can hold his form, Wakelin's spot is probably shaky. Few sides have two monster forwards, so Wakelin won't be needed. And MM has already signalled his intention to play youngsters where he can.



Our mediums are all pretty athletic, but if we play too many we're gonna be vulnerable to forward lines that have a few pacy smalls. Only O'Brien has proven his ability to blanket a quick small forward. Which is to say, I think it'd be wrong to stack the defence with mediums in the belief that they're as suited to playing on smalls as they are to mediums/talls. I don't think they are.

JA will need to displace one of the existing medium/talls. Wakelin is on the thinnest ice IMO, simply because he's not gonna be part of our future.

Again, very well said.
You know what you are talking about.

This is what i am trying to get at though, JA is ready to play senior football.
He was ready last year and then he got injured.
He has had a great pre-season, played extremely well on the weekend from what i have heard and is ready to play this year as well.

I think we can put our left nut on the fact that he will play this year but in my personal opinion, it is important you do not leave it too late.
The quicker you debut players, the quicker they develop into regular senior players.
Last year, Goldsack and O'Brien earnt their spot and this year, Brown looks like he is following suit.
I think JA will hold his spot once he gets a game too and i just think it is a little unfair on the kid to do all the hard work, play good football and then not find a spot in the team when he can easily be slotted into another postition.

He deserves his chance and if you wait too long, his form might drop off and his belief might drop off.
Debut him now and play him on the flank.
Could this week be his week?

 

[Lawboy]

Just please not Toovey - sure he beat Deledio once (when Deledio was playing halfback) but up forward in the re-match he absolutely smashed Toovey in what was the worst senior game by a Collingwood player since Stuart Mangin circa late 90s.

Also don't understand half this board's desire to get Wellingham into the side. He isnt on the list for starters and has never been best on ground in the 2s. What about Sammy Iles who is in the best every week in the 2s and has always shown a bit in the seniors?? Danny Stanley would be a long way ahead of him too.

In: Clarke
Out: Egan

They are gonna have 4 medium forwards in Deledio (Goldyl), Brown (Harry), Pettifer (H Shaw) and Morton (Maxwell) and only one tall in Richo so I wouldnt be surprised to see Wakelin or Brown rested from the game unless they pick J. Riewoldt.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

No point drawing a line through Toovey at this point. He is on the list and he is one we have to make a call on. If his form warrants selection then we may as well play him and see what he can offer. I’d like to see Stanley get a few games for the same reason.

Pox rationale as usual. Toovey and Stanley should be in line for promotion because of their form on Sunday and no other reason - not because we have to give them a chance before we cut them.

There is an entire season to look at the entire list, and we dont have to "make a call" on anybody in April, especially not the younger players.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

He deserves his chance and if you wait too long, his form might drop off and his belief might drop off.
Debut him now and play him on the flank.
Could this week be his week?

It could be.

From JA's pov his neck injury last year came at an inopportune time, cos it allowed Goldsack to establish his place in the team. That said, although Goldsack deserves his spot, I don't think he's got it sewn up forever. An injury, a drop in form, and JA would come in. Likewise, if Brown holds his form JA could replace Wakelin -- that could happen as early as this week IMO. Alternatively, if Brown loses form, JA could come in for him. So I think there are a few possible avenues into the side for Anthony.

FWIW, I'd be surprised if JA doesn't debut some time in the next three weeks. He's in form, and MM rates him and has publicly said he'd play him at some stage. At who's expense his inclusion will come is a bit of a headscratcher, though. (Wakes is my tip.)

 

[PHX]

Just wondering who you think Foley's opponent will be. Its well known you dont really put a hard tag on anyone much and back yourselves in on just being accountable so I was thinking Swan perhaps?

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Just wondering who you think Foley's opponent will be. Its well known you dont really put a hard tag on anyone much and back yourselves in on just being accountable so I was thinking Swan perhaps?

Probably Rhyce Shaw. He played on Black on Friday, and he's got the wheels to go with Foley. So if we choose to tag him, I think he'd be the one.

 

[Hinesight]

In Anthony

Out Egan

 

[Bloben]

Pox rationale as usual. Toovey and Stanley should be in line for promotion because of their form on Sunday and no other reason - not because we have to give them a chance before we cut them.

There is an entire season to look at the entire list, and we dont have to "make a call" on anybody in April, especially not the younger players.

I think that it is because they are playing well in the VFL they should be inline for promotion. However at this stage of their careers they must be pushing for selection or they are no chance of making it. But they should be given their opportunity as the club must make a decision on their future this season so if they warrant selection then give it to them to test whether they are ever likely to make it.

 

[checker]

In Anthony

Out Egan

please explain to me why anthony deserves a game?

plus another tall defender.

i can think of three off the top of my head who deserves a game more then anthony.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

From JA's pov his neck injury last year came at an inopportune time, cos it allowed Goldsack to establish his place in the team.

Theres no such thing as an opportune time to lose a season of footy. If it hadnt been Goldsack taking his spot last year, it would have been somebody else this year. However if you're going to lose a year, it may as well be while you're still young and have your career ahead of you, and before the club has got your head on the chopping block.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

please explain to me why anthony deserves a game?

plus another tall defender.

i can think of three off the top of my head who deserves a game more then anthony.

He deserves a game on form but probably wont get one yet on team balance.

 

[checker]

He deserves a game on form but probably wont get one yet on team balance.

on form?

yeah sure he's actually doing something these days. what about stanley, iles and clarke?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

However at this stage of their careers they must be pushing for selection or they are no chance of making it. .

Thats the same for almost every player on the list, with the exception of the first year players. Are you saying Bryan Lonie and Holland dont have to be pushing for selection?

 

[Anth_5]

egan needs to be dropped,
has been given opportunities for the past
how many ever years, and never proves himself,
very capable of running forward when a goal beckons
but when it is asked of him to run and chase opposition back men
he loses half of his speed, i can see what MM is trying to do with
Egan (a Davey like player), but he must learn to run defensively before he gets another game. given that i believe Reid should be promoted to the 1's
as his defensive forward work is fourth only to pendles, leon and thomas.
In: Ried
Out: Egan

EDIT - i left out medhurst as a good defensive forward, love the way he always puts in 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

on form?

yeah sure he's actually doing something these days. what about stanley, iles and clarke?

Stanley and Toovey are definitely in line. Iles just behind.

Clarke got dropped because of poor form and wil lhave to spend more time in the seconds

 

[checker]

Stanley and Toovey are definitely in line. Iles just behind.

Clarke got dropped because of poor form and wil lhave to spend more time in the seconds

Iles behind? hmm constantly in the best players, averaging at least 25 touches a game in the vfl. not sure what else he has to do.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Theres no such thing as an opportune time to lose a season of footy. If it hadnt been Goldsack taking his spot last year, it would have been somebody else this year. However if you're going to lose a year, it may as well be while you're still young and have your career ahead of you, and before the club has got your head on the chopping block.

My point was that had someone like Goldsack not been on the list, JA may well have walked into a best-22 spot Rd1 this year. But Goldsack was there, so that spot wasn't available.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

My point was that had someone like Goldsack not been on the list, JA may well have walked into a best-22 spot Rd1 this year. But Goldsack was there, so that spot wasn't available.

You're over- analysing.

Theres always going to be somebody take your place when you lose a year to injury. Its got nothing to do with Goldsack. It could just as easily have been Nathan Brown or Ben Reid who took his spot last year.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

You're over- analysing.

Theres always going to be somebody take your place when you lose a year to injury. Its got nothing to do with Goldsack. It could just as easily have been Nathan Brown or Ben Reid who took his spot last year.

In my opinion Anthony is a similar type to Goldsack, but not to Brown or Reid.

 

[Bloben]

Thats the same for almost every player on the list, with the exception of the first year players. Are you saying Bryan Lonie and Holland dont have to be pushing for selection?

Yes true. I would say that Lonie, Holland are in nearly the same position as Toovey and Stanley. They must be pushing for games and if they weren't to I would imagine they will be cut this year.

The slight difference is though that they are experienced firsts players which has postives and negatives. Positives is that they could be relied upon to be reasonably quality depth players through an injury and won't be as nervous etc. Negatives is that we have seen their best and so there are no upsides that Hine and co love.

There are a certain number of fringe players both young and old that must play for their careers this year. The ones that are performing should be given their go to prove that they should stay at years end.

Personally I believe that due to a deep draft this year that there will be a significant cull.

 

[Hinesight]

please explain to me why anthony deserves a game?

plus another tall defender.

i can think of three off the top of my head who deserves a game more then anthony.

Because he is the only player that deserves a game based on the VFL match I saw.. you'll also find either Maxwell or Anthony will pinch hit in the 3rd tall forward postion if he is chosen