Autopsy Insipid Dogs flogged by Hawks - Rd 22

[Doggy]

You forgot Jiath, + Reeves/DGB managed who'd likely be there.

Every team is missing players. You don't really need to be in here after a loss

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Every team is missing players. You don't really need to be in here after a loss

Sorry, big fan of reading what the other teams board has to say regarding the game (W or L) and players for both sides etc. Gets me a different view.

 

[JTCWBFC]

I posted this in the game thread.

But can someone explain to my ignorant self why we have to play an extra around the ball when we apparently have such a good midfield when you look at the individual players?

If they can't go head to head & need an extra, are they really that good?

 

[W W Biscuit]

Sorry, big fan of reading what the other teams board has to say regarding the game (W or L) and players for both sides etc. Gets me a different view.

That's fair enough, and I think that a lot of us lurk on opposition boards for the same reason. Make no mistake, Hawthorn's effort yesterday was huge. If the positions were reversed, and an undermanned Dogs had pulled off the upset victory, we'd all be rightfully over the moon. Take nothing at all away from your guys - it was a super impressive effort and you ought to be proud. Having said that, you can also appreciate just how let down all of us Doggy supporters are feeling right now, given the context of the game and what it meant to our season. We are hurting pretty badly.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I posted this in the game thread.

But can someone explain to my ignorant self why we have to play an extra around the ball when we apparently have such a good midfield when you look at the individual players?

If they can't go head to head & need an extra, are they really that good?

Think it's a fair amount to do with setup at stoppages and the connection to go with roles.

Hawthorn played a spare down back which led you to having an extra in the guts. With
Bont (classy but also inside), Treloar (can play inside/outside and has speed), Daniel (speed kicking etc yknow), (Baz when he plays in there), Hunter on the wing and somewhat Macrae with his reliable kicking. It's got a decent mix. For me i think it's just pressure, they can't seem to handle the heat alot of the time when it's applied in big bunches and their mids aren't tackling machines barring Libba.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

That's fair enough, and I think that a lot of us lurk on opposition boards for the same reason. Make no mistake, Hawthorn's effort yesterday was huge. If the positions were reversed, and an undermanned Dogs had pulled off the upset victory, we'd all be rightfully over the moon. Take nothing at all away from your guys - it was a super impressive effort and you ought to be proud. Having said that, you can also appreciate just how let down all of us Doggy supporters are feeling right now, given the context of the game and what it meant to our season. We are hurting pretty badly.

Yeah, idk what happened really. I expected a huge loss logically but with the Clarko stuff going on and the clear Doggies flaws that are noticeable in spades (Like midfield pressure handling and dishing out) lack of a big fwd this week lack of a consistent key defender etc. But with that midfield it shouldn't be that badly beaten. It's starts with coaching, get the right setup and gameplan in the middle but 2 is the players just giving a **** and putting in some effort, tackling etc. They look good with it but weren't prepared to work for it. Libba is one of the only ones in there giving his all and even he was down on his effort and when he's down you know there's really no one else. They need an inside mid who can just bring the workrate, bring up the energy and tackling which will help his team. Like us with Newcombe.

 

[Struggle]

I posted this in the game thread.

But can someone explain to my ignorant self why we have to play an extra around the ball when we apparently have such a good midfield when you look at the individual players?

If they can't go head to head & need an extra, are they really that good?

Because English doesn't want to compete in the ruck. We need the extra number when they're getting first use.

Cordy would be more competitive in there

 

[Here we go dogs]

I haven’t been this flat after a game since we lost to Fremantle in Round 23 of 2016

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Much of the blame is getting placed on the shoulders of an out os sorts a tiring English, but as big an issue as that is. Its our mids inability to halt the momentum of our opponents in general play that is the real issue. The fact is that we have rushed back a number of players players particularly Treloar and Dunkley who are vital parts of our current midfield rotations from extended breaks with zero match fitness.

This is obviously a consequence of us having no choice but to play them given there is no possibility of getting match fitness into them in the VFL. This is having the knock on effect of cooking them early in games and passing the load onto the rest of the midfield. In a team that absolutely relies on its midfield its proved to a burden they can't carry.

We rolled the dice in the hope that these two vital cogs would get match conditioning before the finals. Ultimately our strength may prove to be our Achilles heal and it may cost us the double chance and the hard fought wins that we banked when they weren't in the side. Or it could prove a masterstroke that gets these guys up to speed just in time.

One thing is certain we won't have to wait long to find out which one it is.

This is it Norm. We have had a poor ruck all season. Even Martin is in bottom group of the AFL. We are top 4 because our Mids are top 2 and our forward line has been up there also. Statistically our defenders are solid - if our Mids are on top and so that’s how it works.

If our Mids our down - we lose - strength and Achilles heal as you say. But what is more likely - we solve our ruck problem or Bont, Dunkley, Smith, Trelor get back to form for the finals. Bont has tried to carry the team but can’t do it for months others - looks tired and needs Dunkley and Trelor to play like they did earlier in the year. Smith has also struggled - has completely lost his aggression.

Our team is coming back in and the question is will they have the hunger to play to their potential - if they do we are good enough to win.

Important ins for the past few weeks:

- Keath
- Dunks
- Trelor
- VDM
- Weightman after a rest
- Wood

That’s a lot of new players - All underdone and it showed. But no VFL lest no choice and they need to get match fit by the finals. If they all play to their ability we beat Essendon and would have beaten the Hawks.

- Gardner
- JUH after a needed rest but has become important to spread away from Bruce - is much better than Hannan.
- Richards - as a HBF he adds something in big games - he was nearly BOG against Melbourne until he went down.
- Martin (if he is fit - doesn’t win taps but makes it a 50/50 for our Mids to have a fair chance.

If these are added we are turning over half of our team! That’s nuts.

The absence of the above has exposed our depth - and reliance on people like García, McNeil, Scott and JUH who will likely be stars but are still under 10 games - what do we expect?

I have been one to be a bit so-so about Scott but Bevo pointed to how no one came to defensive end of the square allowing Hawks to walk through - this has been a big part of Scott’s role - he or Richards need to probably address this.

And my drive by - ready to cop abuse moment - I will go against most here and say I still think English will make a competitive ruckman. Watching him closely he hasn’t found his method - he tries to win taps like a Gawn or Goldy but maybe he has to even up like Mummy, Nankervis and play much more as a tall mid around the ground going for every mark he can. Brisbane game in Ballarat obviously a model.

To do this he has to work more on his core strength and upper body - he jumped at least 5 kegs this off season and will get another 5 this time. He just gets work out and worked over ATM. Now before I am shot - I absolutely believe a solid ruck is an absolute priority - two different ruck works beautifully for us Martin has shown that.

 

[Libba39]

You forgot Jiath, + Reeves/DGB managed who'd likely be there.

They are not best 22

 

[Dewyyyyy]

They are not best 22

Umm, ever watched football? okay i'll cut you some slack but like, Jiath is the most hyped up player we've had since Cyril.

 

[Northernsoul74]

They are not best 22

Jiath is definitely best 22 for them.

 

[Libba39]

Umm, ever watched football? okay i'll cut you some slack but like, Jiath is the most hyped up player we've had since Cyril.

Nah I've never watched it. Please enlighten me...

On second thoughts just p155 off

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Jiath is definitely best 22 for them.

<3

 

[Al dente]

was surprised how mature the hawks are

Hawthorn	Attribute	Western Bulldogs
189.0cm	Height	186.4cm
87.0kg	Weight	84.3kg
24yr 10mth	Age	25yr 6mth
100.7	Games	101.0

9	Less than 50	4
3	50 to 99	8
6	100 to 149	2
4	150 or more	8

 

[Dewyyyyy]

was surprised how mature the hawks are

Hawthorn	Attribute	Western Bulldogs
189.0cm	Height	186.4cm
87.0kg	Weight	84.3kg
24yr 10mth	Age	25yr 6mth
100.7	Games	101.0

9	Less than 50	4
3	50 to 99	8
6	100 to 149	2
4	150 or more	8

Wait we were that young? it said 25 before the game. + Dont' take average age, Silk is like 40.

9 less than 50 is nuts.

 

[Dogs 13]

I think we'll cop a well deserved roasting all week and if we have any pride, we had better come out all guns blazing on Friday night. No excuses. Comfort zone at Marvel. Must win. Don't care how it's done, just win.

You mean the ground we've lost 3 of our last 4 and that win was against the spooners. Port's won all 5 there this year, although they haven't played a top side apart from GWS. I hope we can regain our love of playing there.

God I wish we could go to such a crucial game.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Few associated thoughts

• Centre bounce issues two weeks in a row. It's part due to lack of competitiveness in rucking - English getting beaten by Draper and Ceglar vs the guy who refused to get beaten by Gawn in the last quarter a few weeks back doesn't look like the same person.
• What do we do about it? Dunkley is a good defensive centre bounce mid laying tackles and doing one-percenters but hasn't been rotated there. Surely he's got to move back as it'll be less harmful when we lose the centre breaks
• Hawthorn in the first quarter showed something similar to what Essendon did well - we're so concerned with game-breaking, long kicking and overlap run that we don't have a kicking game or a control game to work through strong opposition pressure
• A large part of this is just how poor our half-forward line is. Lead-up targets and those who can find space, make good decisions, take marks, and execute a short kick aren't there. Vandermeer and JJ are picked for their pace, but not their composure or skill. Hannan is picked for his long kicking and his wing/half-forward/forward pocket utility, but not as a guy who you'd rely on to be able to take 5+ uncotested marks to control the game. Do we go back to Lipinski, Wallis and West acorss the half forward line? I reckon yes to the first and no to the latter two, but you have to question it.
• Gardner's a better player than Cordy, period. There was he was preferred to start the season
• For all the talk about ruck situation - and I'm not denying the bottom of the barrel can fall out for English - I'd much rather back in English to find consistency and have an influence than ask Sweet and Young who aren't up to AFL standard to play what is simply beyond their standard. Young I was hopeful for but he just isn't up to it. English has proven he can play better, you don't BOG with 200SC last year in a game unless you have some serious talent. He's just go to have a baseline level "bad" game that's 50%, not 20%, of his talent. It's weird.
• Treloar and Dunkley will be better for the run. We win that game and we win against Essendon if both play to their abilities after long injury-layoffs. Players don't come back after non-12 month injuries and play that poorly forever. They've demonstrated their ability over hundreds of league games between them, Dunkley was virtually our best player through six rounds to start the season. Between the two of them, the quality of these two AA level players is the difference between being a top-4 and a non-finals team. For all the doom and gloom about not being a top 4 quality team anymore - I would opine we are the second those two are better with the run in their legs.
• Not that it really made more than maybe a goal or two difference in the end, but Hawthorn clearly knew the conditions and ground better, positioned themselves better with the wind, and could just do things like read the softness of the ground and attack the ground balls better than us.
• Bailey Smith returning to the crappy form of earlier this year sucks, really.
• Again, for all the doom and gloom, we still should be favourites against Port on our usual turf, and the fact that it still remains in our destiny is a good thing. A win against an equivalent opponent in the top 4 puts us right into premiership contention, and the fact we lost this game might be forgotten if Dunkley, Treloar, English play good games that we all know they can to win it for us next week.

 

[hatescaptcha]

I thought Vandermeer was good in the first. He will be better for the run.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

I posted this in the game thread.

But can someone explain to my ignorant self why we have to play an extra around the ball when we apparently have such a good midfield when you look at the individual players?

If they can't go head to head & need an extra, are they really that good?

We bring the extra into the stoppage, we drag our wings close in stoppages while our opponents keep their width. I'd have to guess that we can't win if we only break even in clearances so we over-invest in our midfield. Also why we don't rotate our mids as much even though it tires out our best players too much. Pre-season the team was talking about getting our mids to be threats forward as well so we can rotate them through more but we've seemed to abandon that.

I wonder if we had three players, say Garcia, McNeil and Wallis, taking 10 minutes of midfield time each every week would our team look fresher?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I thought Vandermeer was good in the first. He will be better for the run.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Nah, disagree, he was dreadful.

Negative AFL Player Rating score - not just by a few decimal points but a negative score of like 2 or 3

Missed a very easy shot at goal hitting the post.

Only 9 disposals for the game - maybe metres gained is the reason - nah, only 131 metres gained, which is low.

Maybe he had a high kick-handball ratio, or that he won a heap of the contested ball - nah, only four kicks and five hb's and four contested and five uncontested. And then, only five of his nine disposals were effective - very low considering the fact that 80+% of handballs should be effective, and about two thirds of kicks should be effecvtive.

Issue with our ball movement is when you have him, Garcia, Hannan and JJ who aren't winning enough of the ball - Hannan 6 touches, Garcia 8, Vandermeer 9 and at least JJ had 12, but that's still bad - getting to the right spots to be able to win uncontested possession - it really hinders your ball movement because the midfield just haven nothing to kick to, or are forced to absorb more pressure to find a target. Those four as a collective were woeful.

 

[SSSSSS]

I know it's cliche but hoping it's the loss you needed to have.

Hope you guys go all the way again. Couldn't stand a Richmond 3peat, the injectors, $hitney, Kane the flog Cornes getting to celebrate, the yes voting merger wanting chardonnay sipping campaigners or GilWS going all the way.

Has to be either you guys or Brisbane nabbing another for Birchall for me. Best of luck for the rest of the season.

 

[Dogs 13]

I know it's cliche but hoping it's the loss you needed to have.

Hope you guys go all the way again. Couldn't stand a Richmond 3peat, the injectors, $hitney, Kane the flog Cornes getting to celebrate, the yes voting merger wanting chardonnay sipping campaigners or GilWS going all the way.

Has to be either you guys or Brisbane nabbing another for Birchall for me. Best of luck for the rest of the season.

No special mention for Doc

 

[SupercededMan]

We have this terrible habit of an opportunity being presented to us and stuffing it right up.

That was our worst loss of the year by a million miles. Don't even think of spinning that Bevo. We deserve to be torched in the reviews this week, absolutely torched. Disgusting performance.

"Worst" could be measured using a number of metrics. One of them is how many points a team lost by.

Our worst loss, I think, was 28 points.

Yeah, I'm as flat as a shit carter's hat, too.

 

[SupercededMan]

Don’t say that their are a few Bevo lovers around and they will disagree with you

"Fanboi", thankyou.