Investigation into Essendon Fitness Program

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mxett said:
Doc Reid said it was ok to use, thats why Hird was ok with it.
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jerry springer said:
got any proof of this?
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mxett said:
Jobe said it
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Correct .So Essendon might have to stop blaming this "rogue element" Dank on everything now.Would that be correct?

I leave you with this

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/whats-up-doc-20130625-2ouh2.html#ixzz2XE9xRXib

Reid's link with the supplements saga remains of interest, particularly as the program has regularly been attributed to a ''rogue element''.

The club has maintained Reid was excluded from key decisions on player health through the program, in which using external doctors to sign off on requests to test player's blood or inject players was adopted.

Reid also detailed his concerns about the program in a letter to the club board, but it's unclear why he did not pursue this when answers were not forthcoming.
​

A massive backflip from what we have been hearing.Sounds like the entire club knew what was going on to me.

Methinks Jobe just dropped your club fairly in the shit
 
Southern Urchins said:
About 5 weeks too late, but fantastic post.
mxett would make a great death row lawyer though....until his client was executed because he didn't really have a clue or valid legal argument.
But credit to him for flying the flag in the face of overwhelming evidence he is wrong.
Maybe this is Vlad's BF multi acct? mxett is never wrong after all.
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Lol I admitted I was wrong on a point only half an hour ago.

But anyway, if I leave I'm sure the discussion will move to a more constructive balanced debate.
 

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I'm having déjà vu. I could understand a bit of regurgitation when new people arrived today, but it's just weird seeing mxett and Ian W having a conversation about S0, human consumption and AOD I could have sworn I read weeks ago. Next minute someone will bring up Chemist's Warehouse.
 
simoro1 said:
if there was zero grey area, watson would not be playing Thursday night.
I would also advise you to read this http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-25/how-the-dons-might-argue-their-case
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Right. A defence that Essendon have a magic letter. Which they dont. Because if they did, it would have been stapled to the players consent forms. TGA also publish special exemptions, by the way (one of the other drugs Essendon was using has one, which is why it passes S0).

Next, the ACC report said it was not banned under S2, but that it was not approved for human use. Which means its banned under S0.

Im also curious as how Essendon justify using a report written in 2012 to justify drug use in 2011.

Next, the alleged doubt. There is none, and anyone who tells you otherwise has either not read Section 0, is delusional or is lying.

As to why an infraction notice hasnt been presented, you'll see them all as a batch after they finish all the interviews, seeing as how EFC has promised to lawyer up and all. But if it was up to me, as soon as those consent forms existed, I'd have issued them all, and Essendon players would be sitting out their six to eighteen month bans, and James Hird would be into his four years.
 
jerry springer said:
Correct .So Essendon might have to stop blaming this "rogue element" Dank on everything now.Would that be correct?

I leave you with this

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/whats-up-doc-20130625-2ouh2.html#ixzz2XE9xRXib

Reid's link with the supplements saga remains of interest, particularly as the program has regularly been attributed to a ''rogue element''.

The club has maintained Reid was excluded from key decisions on player health through the program, in which using external doctors to sign off on requests to test player's blood or inject players was adopted.

Reid also detailed his concerns about the program in a letter to the club board, but it's unclear why he did not pursue this when answers were not forthcoming.

A massive backflip from what we have been hearing.Sounds like the entire club knew what was going on to me.

Methinks Jobe just dropped your club fairly in the shit
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I think people misunderstand the rogue issue. AOD was on the original consent forms, plus Doc Reid apparently stated he had seen evidence that AOD could be used within the rules. Therefore we knew he was involved in the decision to use aod virtually from the first day this broke.

Where the rogue element comes in is the use of other substances Reid didnt agree to, which is where I think Reid was pushed aside by dank and maybe Robinson.
 
IanW said:
Right. A defence that Essendon have a magic letter. Which they dont. Because if they did, it would have been stapled to the players consent forms. TGA also publish special exemptions, by the way (one of the other drugs Essendon was using has one, which is why it passes S0).

Next, the ACC report said it was not banned under S2, but that it was not approved for human use. Which means its banned under S0.

Im also curious as how Essendon justify using a report written in 2012 to justify drug use in 2011.

Next, the alleged doubt. There is none, and anyone who tells you otherwise has either not read Section 0, is delusional or is lying.

As to why an infraction notice hasnt been presented, you'll see them all as a batch after they finish all the interviews, seeing as how EFC has promised to lawyer up and all. But if it was up to me, as soon as those consent forms existed, I'd have issued them all, and Essendon players would be sitting out their six to eighteen month bans, and James Hird would be into his four years.
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the consent forms claim there was attached documentation showing evidence all supplements were WADA compliant.

Apparently the club and players have confirmed they saw this evidence.
 
Tabletop said:
Why didn't jobe admit he took thymosin as well? Was it because it would have blown his "thought i was injected with legal stuff" defense?
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He probably just assumed it was legal as well.. but it was definitely on the form. I also got the impression that he thought that he was injected with everything that was on those forms... which would therefore include thymosin.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...essendon-players/story-e6frf9l6-1226637891974

You may recall that the only question was regarding which type of Thymosin it was. The form didn't specify and the beta-4 version is the illegal one. Given Cronulla was apparently on it (the 4 version) and there's evidence of Dank buying truckloads of it in connection with Essendon, it's pretty hard to believe they were using another version.
 
Graffy4242 said:
Says nothing at all. More "dog ate my homework" excuses.

The fact that your club is desperately seeking any technical loophole to avoid the fact they have cheated the competition is galling. Hang your heads in shame. It's about as low as you can go in a team sport.
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its hardly a loophole. If Essendon can successfully argue that it was fit for and approved for human use and therefore does not fall under the S0 clause then they are cleared. Hardly a loophole
 
Tabletop said:
When will we hear about the thymosin beta-4? or did only cronulla allegedly take it?
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IMO Thymosin and other drugs are partly the reason for Jobe's mea culpa last night.

Listen to his exact words. He admits to taking what he thinks was AOD but he's not exactly sure what it was.

He used his words carefully.

The players advice might just be you are dead to the world on AOD as it's on your consent forms and unequivocal...but deny knowledge of anything else as there will be zero public sympathy for s2 PED use.
 
Hands Down said:
so you are trying to disprove a negative? Good luck with that approach.

What we do know about the artificial peptide AOD9604 is that is was originally patented by its Monash University inventor in 1998 as an Anti-Obesity drug.

The advantage of pulling an active peptide group out of a giant complex Human Growth Hormone is that you can get specific effects without the side effects associated with HGH

If you follow the path that AOD9604 took since it was originally patented, you will see some very interesting developments.

A trial found that AOD9604 assisted with cartlidge and other tissue repair. They also found that AOD9604 had an side effect whereby the subjects experienced EUPHORIA.

Are you aware that AOD9604 was later patented as an anti-depressant drug? (2003)

NOTE: Patenting a drug doesnt mean anyone can use it. It must go through very strict trials and testing before that happens
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Yes, seen all that. In fact I quoted it earlier in this thread. Calzada updated research into AOD in April 2013 and showed it didnt promote muscle or cartilage growth. Willet summarised all research to date only a month ago and said it did nothing other than create mild euphoria in 60% of cases.
 

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Tabletop said:
Where did the documentation come from? Who researched the legality of the supplements? Was it double checked?
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How would I know. Doc Reid apparently authorised the consents and the use of aod though. According to Gerard Healy this is a game changer for him. He's known Doc Reid for decades and just cannot imagine he would take such a risk without suitable convincing proof it was safe and compliant.
 
mxett said:
Yes, seen all that. In fact I quoted it earlier in this thread. Calzada updated research into AOD in April 2013 and showed it didnt promote muscle or cartilage growth. Willet summarised all research to date only a month ago and said it did nothing other than create mild euphoria in 60% of cases.
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Must be the "erotics" that Evans spoke of...........
 
TerryWallet said:
IMO Thymosin and other drugs are partly the reason for Jobe's mea culpa last night.

Listen to his exact words. He admits to taking what he thinks was AOD but he's not exactly sure what it was.

He used his words carefully.

The players advice might just be you are dead to the world on AOD as it's on your consent forms and unequivocal...but deny knowledge of anything else as there will be zero public sympathy for s2 PED use.
Click to expand...

Interesting theory.

Just a hunch?

The admission was weird. Something smells. And it smells like a concoction to direct the hounds away from the fox trail.
 
mxett said:
the consent forms claim there was attached documentation showing evidence all supplements were WADA compliant.

Apparently the club and players have confirmed they saw this evidence.
Click to expand...

Mate, the issue is, this is irrelevant. They took a banned substance regardless of forms or evidence
 
mxett said:
the consent forms claim there was attached documentation showing evidence all supplements were WADA compliant.

Apparently the club and players have confirmed they saw this evidence.
Click to expand...


And what? No one can find a copy? :rolleyes:

If that were true, this mess would have been over months ago.
 
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