Is Buckley A Good Coach?

[jathanas]

The senior coach is an important club figure and a legitimate topic of discussion. It's fair to do so and everyone has a right to express their view.

The mod team observed that the thread was dominated by a few protagonists and their points were repeated i.e. 8 years of regression vs marked improvement in 17,18 etc Pretty much everyone with a strong opinion has already expressed it here.

What further degraded discussion was the simplistic "sack FIGJAM" or "he's a legend" type posts.

This thread will remain open. If your view has slightly shifted or you have new thoughts please share. In an effort to encourage quality discussion repetitive statements and circular arguments will from now on be deleted as will silly posts suggesting that we sack a coach on match-day.

FYI Gone Critical Anzacday Maggie5

 

[BringouttheGimp]

What I find amusing about comparing Buckley to Clarkson..

Clarkson won a premiership in 2008.. then went on to win 3 consecutive premierships from 2013-2015. They had their injury woes as well.. and lost the Big Bud at the end of 2013.

Geelong only lost the 1 game in the h&a season in 2008. Overwhelming favourites.

2013-2015 what more did you expect from Clarko? You can argue until the cows come home about him having the players.. did he under achieve with them? Or were we all expecting them to beat reptilian shapeshifters cause there was no one left to beat? Like what the hell? Expect em to take 4 from 4? What exactly?

2 different times frames.. premierships in both.

Buckley - NA

There is no comparison at all..

 

[ZEV]

Interesting you cherry picked the GWS game when we had the least number of <50 players (6) for the season and 9 >150 games players, in fact every player on our list with over 150 games.

The six team changes between GWS and Geelong were Adams, Howe, Thomas, Greenwood, McCreery and Cox (all forced changes except Cox who was unavailable anyway) out for Bianco, Wilson, McCrae, Poulter, Murphy and Cameron. This wasn't Bucks playing kids, it was injury forced.

The reason I picked the GWS game however was the fact that they were clearly the most inexperienced side we have played for the year with only 1494 games experience. They smashed us. If we couldn't execute against them what chance do we have with no Adams, Howe, etc.

 

[ZEV]

What I find amusing about comparing Buckley to Clarkson..

Clarkson won a premiership in 2008.. then went on to win 3 consecutive premierships from 2013-2015. They had their injury woes as well.. and lost the Big Bud at the end of 2013.

Geelong only lost the 1 game in the h&a season in 2008. Overwhelming favourites.

2013-2015 what more did you expect from Clarko? You can argue until the cows come home about him having the players.. did he under achieve with them? Or were we all expecting them to beat reptilian shapeshifters cause there was no one left to beat? Like what the hell? Expect em to take 4 from 4? What exactly?

2 different times frames.. premierships in both.

Buckley - NA

There is no comparison at all..

Al makes footy fun. Bucks makes it not fun.

 

[Matrix10]

For one who speaks so calmly and what seems like to sound like the voice of reason and numingly boring, to say in his after match press conference against the Cats , "the team was playing a better brand of football " a brand of football that delivered 1 goal in 3 quarters of football mind you, Bucks is totally deluded , I think he is totally paranoid and has lost the plot, this is the new, "Bucks normal" . welcome to the new Collingwood world order.

 

[Axl the great]

This thread has long been at a stalemate. There is a group who blame the coach for our parlous situation and seem to believe that a change of coach will change our fortunes. There is a group that doesn't see the coach as the main cause of the malaise, but looks at the other factors that are in play. Neither of these groups take any notice whatsoever of the opposing group's arguments.

Then there is the bulk of Collingwood supporters that realizes that none of us know. We hear the noisy fallout, and wonder if there is fire where there is so much smoke, but all we really are looking for is improvement. We have few facts. We can see that the list is in dire straits, but have to guess where the fault lies.

It was perhaps instructive to watch the skills of Footscray fall apart under Melbourne's pressure. Our team is like that every week and fails in similar ways. Perhaps the message is that the problem is simply not enough talented players. Beveridge certainly wasn't telling his players to chip across the field to go slow. It was to find a way past the crush. Even his players failed.

I would love to see our players blast past opponents with pace and sublime skills. Unfortunately, they have to try and grind their way past because not enough of them have the ability to do that. The answer lies in recruiting better players, and that is a slow process, made worse by our management failings.

Clarkson's reputation is built on the star players that Hawthorn recruited and bought in. He had a lot of them for a long time. He would not, I suspect, have had the same success with North Melbourne's list. Players make coaches.

Sorry got to disagree with this, The most important players are the ones without the footy not with it, there is no willingness to make options or space in the next link in the chain, this comes down to either instructions or work rate not skill, the really good teams have 2 or 3 options most times when looking for the next player we struggle to find one on a consistent basis, how often do we see our players stop and look with no options available.
Even when in open play, we handball backwards from a contest to stagnant players who are motionless and easy prey to be tackled, there is massive issues with spacing to receive the footy and moving it in a forward motion especially by hand.
These traits are system based and should really be coachable, and for Buckley to get up there and basically endorse what we are doing shows we are playing to instruction.
Once your system is right and productive, disposal improves on all players performance and confidence improves and the rest roles on and you end up with is a very good and well drilled team.
Most players in AFL footy can kick and can chose a decent option when your system and game style allows you time, space and multiple options but slot even the most of elite kicks into our system at the moment and 100% their efficiency and output drops.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So now there is a narrative that if we cop hidings it will damage developing players confidence, there's also a narrative which I'm leaning towards that playing the style of footy we're playing is also damaging to the confidence of developing players - because it's so negative.

So going by that logic it doesn't matter what style of game you play you're going to damage the confidence of your developing players.

That would suggest these players have never played in teams that have copped hidings.

I seriously doubt that.

If we look at other 'developing teams' like ess, syd and ade, they regularly copped big hidings in recent years (and maybe even this year). How much confidence damage does it look like they're developing players have now?

Now whether or not we can or cannot maintain ideal game, which we've show in periods of games for the last 2 and half seasons. The overly defensive style is not viable for success. Only if you have the overall team skills to transition and negate your opposition in the same game ala syd 2005 then you will not succeed.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Once your system is right and productive, disposal improves on all players performance and confidence improves and the rest roles on and you end up with is a very good and well drilled team.
Most players in AFL footy can kick and can chose a decent option when your system and game style allows you time, space and multiple options but slot even the most of elite kicks into our system at the moment and 100% their efficiency and output drops.

The current premier says hi. Oh and there was a team a few years ago that just missed a flag with a really good system too, can't put my finger on it.

 

[jackcass]

The six team changes between GWS and Geelong were Adams, Howe, Thomas, Greenwood, McCreery and Cox (all forced changes except Cox who was unavailable anyway) out for Bianco, Wilson, McCrae, Poulter, Murphy and Cameron. This wasn't Bucks playing kids, it was injury forced.

And that's how it should be isn't it? The kids should earn their stripes in the VFL and get senior opportunity through weight of performance or a vacancy in the senior team. Sadly there has been more of the later than the former but even here it's still been 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen the other. With 23 or 24 players on the list with <50 games it was pretty inevitable wasn't it but we've still seen Tyler Brown given games in the midfield ahead of Sier, who was initially replaced by Rantall, Keane & Wilson preferred over Madgen.

And lets not forget that the GF side had a forced change with Presti (200+ games) replaced by Brown (50th game in the GF). Even Leon (200+ games) was replaced by Goldsack (40-50 games). I'd say Blair and Macaffer were gifted games ahead of Medhurst and Lockyer as well. Add those players and you completely change the games profile of the team.

The reason I picked the GWS game however was the fact that they were clearly the most inexperienced side we have played for the year with only 1494 games experience. They smashed us. If we couldn't execute against them what chance do we have with no Adams, Howe, etc.

They hardly "smashed" us. We kicked 2 of the 1st 3 goals of the last quarter to be within 9 points 8-10 minutes of the final quarter. They kicked the last few goals to make it look a lot worse than it was but the game was pretty much in the balance for the first 3 quarters.

 

[domus]

What has happened to Pies ball movement? I On the Couch I Fox Footy - YouTube

Here's your answer.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Slow slow ball movement. We can’t score. He’s gone. Simple

 

[Doc1763]

Slow slow ball movement. We can’t score. He’s gone. Simple

We can only hope

 

[domus]

It's frightening to hear from the "experts" that unless we can nab Chris Scott, Clarko or Ross Lyon, Buckley will stay. The cowardly, defensive minded, safety first mindset behind our appalling game plan is also alive and well in our administration. 12 years under the legendary Malthouse brought us one flag. Surely if "due process" is carried out we can identify a fresh young gun with a clear vision and passion to see it applied rather than attempt to appease the masses with a "name" coach. I honestly cannot stomach what is going on at Collingwood.

As for Buckley's comments after the abomination last Saturday-the man has no shame. To talk about the confidence in the sheds with this horrific gameplan and his boast of competitiveness with the best should be the final nail in his coffin, but it seems the morons in charge want to play safety first.

 

[domus]

Hopefully ten thousand at Marvel against Freo will speed things up. That's more than the crap he serves up deserves.

 

[domus]

Sorry got to disagree with this, The most important players are the ones without the footy not with it, there is no willingness to make options or space in the next link in the chain, this comes down to either instructions or work rate not skill, the really good teams have 2 or 3 options most times when looking for the next player we struggle to find one on a consistent basis, how often do we see our players stop and look with no options available.
Even when in open play, we handball backwards from a contest to stagnant players who are motionless and easy prey to be tackled, there is massive issues with spacing to receive the footy and moving it in a forward motion especially by hand.
These traits are system based and should really be coachable, and for Buckley to get up there and basically endorse what we are doing shows we are playing to instruction.
Once your system is right and productive, disposal improves on all players performance and confidence improves and the rest roles on and you end up with is a very good and well drilled team.
Most players in AFL footy can kick and can chose a decent option when your system and game style allows you time, space and multiple options but slot even the most of elite kicks into our system at the moment and 100% their efficiency and output drops.

I saw plenty of options ahead of players. They simply refused to take them. DeGoey breaking clear and running forward in the second term had players out in space in front of him but chose to handball to Grundy who was standing still beside him. It has been drilled into their brains to maintain possession at all costs. Even Pendlebury and Sidebottom are doing it. Buckley has even infected them.

 

[ZEV]

And that's how it should be isn't it? The kids should earn their stripes in the VFL and get senior opportunity through weight of performance or a vacancy in the senior team. Sadly there has been more of the later than the former but even here it's still been 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen the other. With 23 or 24 players on the list with <50 games it was pretty inevitable wasn't it but we've still seen Tyler Brown given games in the midfield ahead of Sier, who was initially replaced by Rantall, Keane & Wilson preferred over Madgen.

And lets not forget that the GF side had a forced change with Presti (200+ games) replaced by Brown (50th game in the GF). Even Leon (200+ games) was replaced by Goldsack (40-50 games). I'd say Blair and Macaffer were gifted games ahead of Medhurst and Lockyer as well. Add those players and you completely change the games profile of the team.



They hardly "smashed" us. We kicked 2 of the 1st 3 goals of the last quarter to be within 9 points 8-10 minutes of the final quarter. They kicked the last few goals to make it look a lot worse than it was but the game was pretty much in the balance for the first 3 quarters.

I think we are getting off topic. My point was no matter who played the style of play is not going to work.

They won 4/4 quarters with a bunch of nobodies.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Why do we even bother going to watch these kids play in these under 18 comps.. draft combines.. and shit like that.. agility speed beep tests reaction time tests vertical jump tests general skills etc.. then instructing these lads to kick it sideways and backwards like Roman's in tortoise formation.. like slugs re.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's frightening to hear from the "experts" that unless we can nab Chris Scott, Clarko or Ross Lyon, Buckley will stay. The cowardly, defensive minded, safety first mindset behind our appalling game plan is also alive and well in our administration. 12 years under the legendary Malthouse brought us one flag. Surely if "due process" is carried out we can identify a fresh young gun with a clear vision and passion to see it applied rather than attempt to appease the masses with a "name" coach. I honestly cannot stomach what is going on at Collingwood.

As for Buckley's comments after the abomination last Saturday-the man has no shame. To talk about the confidence in the sheds with this horrific gameplan and his boast of competitiveness with the best should be the final nail in his coffin, but it seems the morons in charge want to play safety first.

Well it is speculation - keeping Buckley, pardon my optimism but I believe GW will be looking very closely at those 'young guns' you talk about, if he is worth his salt. My money is if the club could land an Yze, Caracella, Leppa whatever then I reckon GW would almost certainly recommend them over keeping Nathan.

It's likely we'll never know if that came to pass that it came from the advice of GW, but it'd hard to argue against that that wouldn't transpire.

 

[Chameleon75]

Well it is speculation - keeping Buckley, pardon my optimism but I believe GW will be looking very closely at those 'young guns' you talk about, if he is worth his salt. My money is if the club could land an Yze, Caracella, Leppa whatever then I reckon GW would almost certainly recommend them over keeping Nathan.

It's likely we'll never know if that came to pass that it came from the advice of GW, but it'd hard to argue against that that wouldn't transpire.

gw will outline a range of options from no change through to radical changes with the pros and cons, it will be up to board to decide which direction they take.

 

[Carringbush2010]

gw will outline a range of options from no change through to radical changes with the pros and cons, it will be up to board to decide which direction they take.

If that is the case, the board makes the decision (which is due process), they'll have no room to move. The noise of groundswell among the fan base can't be ignored and if the unpopular decision (or what would likely be in opposition to GW's recommendations) is made the noise will just get louder.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Fancy being a player.. instructed to look for a sure thing 15 metres to the side of ya.. but your gut is telling you to chose another option.. when you use your gut.. you're effectively using your brains.. you're not being an idiot.. it's all probability man.. eg.. the speed and direction of the wind.. how I'll trajectile the pill.. the positioning of your team mate and opposition player.. placing the pill on your boot.. your skills.. your direct opponents skills.. etc etc.. then you make a decision..

Fancy all that being taken away from you cause some bloke in the box is forcing you to kick it sideways..

How will you ever grow as a side if everyone is wired to think the same way. Where's the x factor. Where's the unpredictability. The aura.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

10 20 50 100 games together.. different personalities.. get to know each other's games.. inevitably you're gonna play like the Harlem Globetrotters.. opposition sides won't know what hit em..

If you gave me an option of a 13th spot last yr over a 6th placed spot.. I'd take the 13th place spot.. under the condition you give me a free flowing attacking style of football.. cause we are building towards bigger and better things.. we're not just going to become perennial finalists.. what is the point in that.. we're not doing in the hope of plucking one premiership from abyss.. it's about multiple premierships!

You look at these coaches that have been in the system for a while.. Lyon Roos Longmire Scott Buckley.. 3 premierships between them.. then you've got the likes of Blight Matthews Hardwick Clarkson.. what's that.. 13 premierships between em. Just a rough look at it.. but you can see 2 dinstinct styles of coaching.

 

[jackcass]

gw will outline a range of options from no change through to radical changes with the pros and cons, it will be up to board to decide which direction they take.

I'd be very surprised if Wright and Anderson didn't present a single recommended course of action to the board as the best way to move forward.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

There you go.. apologies for letting it rip a bit.. but comes from the heart.

These lads deserve better than what they're being taught about the game.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Enough of the piss farting around.. and let's play. Lose.. so be it.

Go and play the bloody game man.

 

[Chameleon75]

I'd be very surprised if Wright and Anderson didn't present a single recommended course of action to the board as the best way to move forward.

could do, but I’d still expect their report to cover all options.