Coach Is Hardwick now the second best coach in the league behind Clarkson?

[Frank Grimes]

Chris Scott has the highest winning percentage of all time (25 game minimum). Got to be in the discussion

Chris Scott inherited a premiership list in the middle of their peak and topped up to continue to make finals (admittedly done a good job doing so).

Hardwick inherited a side described as worse than Fitzroy and developed the list to the current era of success.

Obviously due to the coaches being on different journeys due to their starting points, winning percentage alone shouldn’t be the only or most important measure.

 

[Engimal v3]

I'd have Simpson ahead. Coaching an MCG tenant is always going to be a bit easier, but top 3 at the moment for sure. I don't think he's always been a good coach, but I think he's learnt a lot about coaching from doing a lot of stuff wrong for a long time. The comparison is a guy like Brad Scott, who never seemed to learn from mistakes. Both were as crap as each other at one point, and now one is sacked and the either is a premiership coach.

 

[Sttew]

For me, yes. And clearly.

Consider his record factoring in where Richmond came from. Prior to Hardwick, Richmond had not made finals since 2001 and had made 3 finals series since 1980, where they won their last flag.

In 10 seasons under Hardwick, Tigers have made 5 finals series and won 2 premierships. In one of those years, he took the Tigers to finals after starting 3-10, never been done in history. He took a side that finished 13th in 2016 to Premiers in 2017, the greatest jump in one season the AFL has seen.

We were a basket case when Dimma took over, regular fixtures in the bottom 4, yet Hardwick's record now stands at 130-99-2 from 231 games coached. Not bad at all considering the platform he inherited.

Aside from Clarko, for me Hardwick is the clear number 2 coach in the league, particularly based on his record.

Some wanted him sacked in 2016, but the club stood by him and his record now is outstanding on paper.

Here we go yet again...a Richmond supporter demanding affirmation. TBH, with 2 premierships, we didn't need a thread to know Dimma is No.2

 

[BF Tiger]

Based on the 3peats, back to back GFs ... its on the board, come back when someone even gets into back to back GFs ....

Obviously a brain fart there.

True, if he is middling until 2030 then he could well be overtaken if the competition start winning multiple flags, but as of 2020 Clarkson is still ahead of the pack imo and will retain it for a couple of years at least.

I can just hear you two next year if the Eagles triumph... Simpson is the best.

 

[faible]

I'd have Simpson ahead. Coaching an MCG tenant is always going to be a bit easier, but top 3 at the moment for sure. I don't think he's always been a good coach, but I think he's learnt a lot about coaching from doing a lot of stuff wrong for a long time. The comparison is a guy like Brad Scott, who never seemed to learn from mistakes. Both were as crap as each other at one point, and now one is sacked and the either is a premiership coach.

Good point here; Hardwick seems to have taken on his failings and learned from them, plus the club has done well to add experienced support around him (Balme + Caracella most notably). Think we're seeing more clubs look beyond just the head coach now when reviewing the performance of the side, getting the off-field stuff right has never been more important, all the most successful clubs of the last decade or so have generally been ones that got their house in order.

Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn, West Coast, now Richmond have all improved how they've been run in order to provide a strong environment for on-field performance. You'll get the odd side pop up and win a premiership i've no doubt (e.g. Western Bulldogs) but to generate a sustained run at finals means having a good mix of on and off-field success.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

Probably. But anyone calling Dimma a better coach than Clarkson is a beer drinking goldfish influenced by recency bias.

If you give the credit to Chris Scott and not his very good list. Even he is a better coach than Dimma who failed horribly for years. It took him 8 years to turn them around.

They are all kids compared to Clarko. A lot of people underselling Clarko in this thread. If you're as superficial as premierships then Malcolm Blight (who failed in 4 Grand Finals) b2b rates higher because it's b2b (your logic).

I think Clarko is clear number 1 ...and as some have stated Dimma 2, with Simpson and Scott close behind, have to include Longmire as well.
Dimma, Simpson and Scott have teams that can make finals so they can leapfrog other coaches or reach the levels of others.
Whats interesting is if Longmire and Clarko can develop a team and challenge again to hopefully win more flags.

Interesting discussion, hope trolls dont come in and derail this thread.

EDIT: Sydney Coach not new Freo

 

[Damon_3388]

Chris Scott has the highest winning percentage of all time (25 game minimum). Got to be in the discussion

Clearly the smartest coach in the room.

 

[faible]

Longmuir

Gone early there; Longmuir is the new Fremantle coach, Longmire is Sydney.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Chris Scott has the highest winning percentage of all time (25 game minimum). Got to be in the discussion

Actually 6th on that list, but a great record nonetheless.

 

[Kwality]

You blokes clearly have a very short attention span - as the reigning coach Dimma has the respect of the comp, BUT comparisons with Clarko are premature, e.g get in 2 GFs in a row, Clarko made a habit of it, Dimma couldnt do it.

 

[Kwality]

That's not the question though, the question is who is the better coach.

Hardwick is still the only coach ever to be eliminated from finals by the 9th placed team. I'm not holding his woeful record against Brad Scott against him either.

Your cherrypicking is exactly what the Tiger tryhards are into, but they need to be the best even after 2 GFs only in the AFL comp.

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

Gone early there; Longmuir is the new Fremantle coach, Longmire is Sydney.

LOL ... I meant Sydney coach Longmire .. i'll go back and edit ...

 

[Kwality]

So this is why I had you on ignore...kudos to me

The opinion posted was not mine, go through to the keeper? The entitled tend not to want/need to hang on.

 

[Cyclonus]

He's the best currently. His team is playing the best style at the moment, and it can't be stopped when they're at their hottest.

 

[Kwality]

I rate Simpson very highly. Scott not so much.

What Scott has going for him is amazing longevity, he has kept the Cats up in SF/PF final territory for close to a decade, that's got to be respected. However in terms of his quoted W percentage, it's largely to do with the fact that unlike Clarko or Hardwick, Scott did not inherit a dud group. Before Scott Cats had gone Flag, GF, Flag, GF. He took on a champion team and got them there again in 2011. Since that however, his finals record has been poor.

I would say Scott trended down, while the others trended up.

The trend is a better descriptor to pump up Dimmas tyres, this time last year Simmo was reigning premier with 2 x GFs to his name, Dimma has nudged ahead with 2 flags.
Dont remember even the silliest Eagles fan* suggesting Simmo anything but a Clarko apprentice.

* there is a tread suggesting the Eagles 2018 side was its best ever, mainly kids who never experienced an Eagles flag - every bit as silly as comparing Simmo with Malthouse/Dimma with Clarko

 

[Kwality]

Why would they?
I’ve never heard storm fans complain about the final location either.
Sure there’s probably a few, but it wouldn’t be common.

Wait for the NRL GF bidding, even the Kiwis are in, so is Dan.
IF the Storm is your point of reference, have an ear for the Bananabenders.
“The AFL needs to ask itself if money and revenue is more important than equity and fairness and having a truly national competition.”
As a competitor in the national comp, can you really accept the glory, its not like the Melbourne Cup its a handicap also run in Melbourne.

the Wiley old master coach

Whats Rob got to do with it?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I mean if he plays in Adelaide he'd be the oldest player in the league.

The whole flags don't count if you beat interstate teams is bulls**t
Your mob won last year against the Pies it's not impossible you've just got to take your chances on the day.

Not impossible - just harder

And I didn't say they don't count

I just posed the question - would he be a dual premiership coach?

Would Clarkson have 4?

Would Longmire now have 3?

If premierships are the biggest factor in "best coach" - then ignoring a significant legup is folly

 

[The Falcon Strike]

It's actually amazing how salty you blokes are for a supporter base that won a flag a year ago.

Not salty at all.

It's a simple fact. The grand final is played at the MCG.

In every sport all around the world, there is a home ground advantage. It provides a benefit to coaches of those teams and potentially inflates their coaching credentials.

 

[Kwality]

I can just hear you two next year if the Eagles triumph... Simpson is the best.

Not my style, best ever you are delusional, it'd be like comparing Martin with Haydn Bunton Senior - not saying there arent some kids amongst BF posters that arent that silly.

 

[Kwality]

If premierships are the biggest factor in "best coach" - then ignoring a significant legup is folly

 

[RichLeMonde]

I think Hardwick has flourished with other good people around him. Balme is essential to the picture. I think Dimma actually used to be a bad match-day coach. He had a plan A, and if it didn't work he had no plan B. He was slow to react in the box. I remember our qualifying final loss against Carlton and he left Vickery in the ruck while Judd had 10 clearances in 10 minutes and the Blues kicked about 5 unanswered goals and the game was lost. The way the Tiges made adjustments and got on top after half time against Geelong in the prelim this year is in large part due to the senior assistants, and Dimma admits that they provide the majority of tactical input. Dimma is a great people manager and leader, but he needs a lot of pieces around him. I think several coaches are better tacticians, and Fagan and Bucks probably have the best combo of people management plus tactical nous. Probably an unpopular view amongst fellow Tiges supporters.

 

[Kwality]

I think Hardwick has flourished with other good people around him. Balme is essential to the picture. I think Dimma actually used to be a bad match-day coach. He had a plan A, and if it didn't work he had no plan B. He was slow to react in the box. I remember our qualifying final loss against Carlton and he left Vickery in the ruck while Judd had 10 clearances in 10 minutes and the Blues kicked about 5 unanswered goals and the game was lost. The way the Tiges made adjustments and got on top after half time against Geelong in the prelim this year is in large part due to the senior assistants, and Dimma admits that they provide the majority of tactical input. Dimma is a great people manager and leader, but he needs a lot of pieces around him. I think several coaches are better tacticians, and Fagan and Bucks probably have the best combo of people management plus tactical nous. Probably an unpopular view amongst fellow Tiges supporters.

Neil Balme & change is no coincidence.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I've read a few comments on here that the core of Richmond's premierships sides were drafted before Hardwick was coach, so a lot of the credit should go to people before him, that he came in when Richmond were already on an upward trajectory.

What do Tiger supporters think of this?

Cotchin, Riewoldt, Edwards and Rance are the only four that were there pre-Dimma

 

[Gralin]

Not impossible - just harder

And I didn't say they don't count

I just posed the question - would he be a dual premiership coach?

Would Clarkson have 4?

Would Longmire now have 3?

If premierships are the biggest factor in "best coach" - then ignoring a significant legup is folly

Success breeds success.
Clarko turned around a club that was in the middle of a long premiership drought.
Hardwick did the same.
Simpson did it also
Ditto Bevo

Clarko and Hardwick have gotten back there again, the other two not yet though Simpson has made two grand finals

You can't say whether they'd have more or less flags coaching elsewhere but I think it's fair to say that if they can get the same support from the board at another club and the time to turn that club around that Hardwick and Clarkson would succeed, Simpson a fair chance also.

Don't think Bevo or Longmire have shown enough as examples.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Dimma's record:

2010: 6-16, 15th
2011: 8-13-1, 12th
2012: 10-11-1, 12th
2013: 15-8, 7th
2014: 12-11, 8th
2015: 15-8, 7th
2016: 8-14, 13th
2017: 18-7, Premiers
2018: 19-5, 3rd
2019: 19-6, Premiers

He's consistently improved his team across the decade. From a bottom 2 rabble, to a competitive bottom 8 side, to a regular finalist, to the dominant team in the comp. Aside from the minor set back in 2014 and the major set back in 2016, it's been constant improvement.