Is it time for a National Reserves League?

[ZingerB]

I don't think it's just a PA matter. The prediction about 4000 strong crowds to AFC matches just never happened and the fees paid don't make up for the decline in crowds. Look at die hard Maggies fans that walked away like the cheer squad. Have a read of their FB page when the maggies became Power rezzies.

Weren't the figures way up last year? The fact that there is now some fairly good quality coverage on 7 might affect attendance, but would make up for it (and then some) in terms of $ to the clubs. It seems suspicious that the 1st year football is on 7, attendances are down.

 

[ZingerB]

South
Australian
National
Feeder
League

Instead of trying to be the 'second best competition in Australia', try and become the best feeder league in Australia. Western Australia appears to be shitting it all over you at the moment.

And now they are trying to shitcain us at a time where we have actually nurtured talent and brought young players through (In S Gray's case a home grown lad to).

 

[The_Reaper]

Weren't the figures way up last year? The fact that there is now some fairly good quality coverage on 7 might affect attendance, but would make up for it (and then some) in terms of $ to the clubs. It seems suspicious that the 1st year football is on 7, attendances are down.

Based on The_Wookie 's figures, SANFL tv ratings are down 23% this year.

And if the SANFL deal is like the WAFL deal, the SANFL is actually paying for the telecasting costs.

Stand alone reserves sides are better for Adelaide and Port Adelaide.
They're shit for the SANFL.

A split is best for both parties

 

[ZingerB]

Based on The_Wookie 's figures, SANFL tv ratings are down 23% this year.

And if the SANFL deal is like the WAFL deal, the SANFL is actually paying for the telecasting costs.

Stand alone reserves sides are better for Adelaide and Port Adelaide.
They're shit for the SANFL.

A split is best for both parties

That's fine, we will just take our increased costs in playing in the VFL or equivalent from the money we give the SANFL and show them what it is really like without us.

 

[Norwood1878]

Weren't the figures way up last year? The fact that there is now some fairly good quality coverage on 7 might affect attendance, but would make up for it (and then some) in terms of $ to the clubs. It seems suspicious that the 1st year football is on 7, attendances are down.

I meant PA home crowds, sorry i wasn't clear.

2011: 3067
2012: 2752
2013: 2942
2014: 3258
2015: 2551

 

[seanoff]

There will be no curtain raisers on a regular basis.

1. The game before will have to start at least 4 - 4.5 hrs before the main game. So Richmond v Coll rd21 the ressies would start at say 9:15am. How many people are showing up for that game? Seriously. How many people have the time or motivation to sit there from 9:00am to 5:00pm. I'd want to be getting paid to do that.

2. The ground managers are not going to allow much more traffic on their grounds. Esp at the MCG and Etihad. So another 45 games at the mcg isn't happening. The players, fans, media are up in arms if the grounds aren't pristine. Imagine how chopped up they would be with an extra 50 games.

3. Travel is not as easy as some think. These ressies games are going to have to be played day before or day after most likely unless they have their own game day staff, ie trainers, docs, physios, etc So it will be extra hotel rooms, staff travel blah blah. With nothing else it's probably an extra 1 - 1.5 m per year.

 

[Norwood1878]

That's fine, we will just take our increased costs in playing in the VFL or equivalent from the money we give the SANFL and show them what it is really like without us.

Port don't pay to play in the SANFL.

 

[ZingerB]

I meant PA home crowds, sorry i wasn't clear.

2011: 3067
2012: 2752
2013: 2942
2014: 3258
2015: 2551

Again 2014 (the 1st year of reserves) was our best year, but the first year of channel 7 coverage was our worst. Doesn't that point to people watching TV instead of going to the game?

 

[Norwood1878]

Again 2014 (the 1st year of reserves) was our best year, but the first year of channel 7 coverage was our worst. Doesn't that point to people watching TV instead of going to the game?

I don't know. How many PA home games were televised?

 

[ZingerB]

Port don't pay to play in the SANFL.

What I was saying was if (as some rumours are floating around at the moment) many SANFL clubs are unhappy with us being in the comp and want to impose some pretty ridiculous restrictions, then maybe stop asking for money from the AFL team and justifying it through the need to support the SANFL clubs and grassroots footy, through the stadium deal. I am sick of w***ers putting their hands out for money and giving us the finger with the other. People only seem to want the money that our supporters bring, but otherwise we can get ****ed.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

There will be no curtain raisers on a regular basis.

1. The game before will have to start at least 4 - 4.5 hrs before the main game. So Richmond v Coll rd21 the ressies would start at say 9:15am. How many people are showing up for that game? Seriously. How many people have the time or motivation to sit there from 9:00am to 5:00pm. I'd want to be getting paid to do that.

2. The ground managers are not going to allow much more traffic on their grounds. Esp at the MCG and Etihad. So another 45 games at the mcg isn't happening. The players, fans, media are up in arms if the grounds aren't pristine. Imagine how chopped up they would be with an extra 50 games.

3. Travel is not as easy as some think. These ressies games are going to have to be played day before or day after most likely unless they have their own game day staff, ie trainers, docs, physios, etc So it will be extra hotel rooms, staff travel blah blah. With nothing else it's probably an extra 1 - 1.5 m per year.

It isn't the curtain raisers that is the question. It is asking for a reserves league, they could play at Whitten Oval for all it mattered. It is about continuity in playing

 

[Football Tragic]

Don't really see the point in mixing Victorian clubs with the non Victorian clubs. It just increases travel expenses.

It's a reserves league so it doesn't have to be a fair competition because the whole point of the comp is to get players ready for getting called up.

As for method two - one of the whole points of this thing is to completely separate the state leagues from AFL reserves.
The state teams don't want to be involved with AFL reserves and lose out from being part of reserves competitions

If you don't have travel then you won't have a National Competition. It's as simple as that. Without travel you just have state leagues which is exactly what we have now.

 

[The_Reaper]

If you don't have travel then you won't have a National Competition. It's as simple as that. Without travel you just have state leagues which is exactly what we have now.

Not really sure where you're going with this.

This is just the ressies. In order to make sure each team has the best chance to prepare their players for seniors whilst minimising the damage to the existing state leagues.

 

[Upgrayedd]

What difference does it make if the Lions field 6 listed players + topups in a reserves league vs fielding 6 listed players + topups in the NEAFL?

No real reason why the current top-up arrangements couldn't continue, and would be probably an improvement over the current farcical NEAFL situation where a kid who's played as a Lions academy top up all year suddenly finds himself eligible to represent a different club in the finals

And the assumption is the neafl are happy to help the afl to weaken their comp and relegate them to the third tier comp

 

[The_Reaper]

And the assumption is the neafl are happy to help the afl to weaken their comp and relegate them to the third tier comp

Over the few years the NEAFL has existed about half the state teams left have already voluntarily relegated themselves.

It's an Frankenstein's league stuck together from various bits and pieces so that the NSW and QLD AFL reserves would have somewhere to play.

The NSW and QLD teams already get top up players from the local leagues

 

[Norwood1878]

What I was saying was if (as some rumours are floating around at the moment) many SANFL clubs are unhappy with us being in the comp and want to impose some pretty ridiculous restrictions, then maybe stop asking for money from the AFL team and justifying it through the need to support the SANFL clubs and grassroots footy, through the stadium deal. I am sick of ******s putting their hands out for money and giving us the finger with the other. People only seem to want the money that our supporters bring, but otherwise we can get stuffed.

It's more complicated than you're suggesting. There was a cost penalty for allowing the Licenses to be sold and games moved from Footy park to AO. If there is a short fall in profits as promised from the SMA then that's an entirely different matter.
Anyway let's get this thread back on track.
Cheers.

 

[Football Tragic]

Not really sure where you're going with this.

This is just the ressies. In order to make sure each team has the best chance to prepare their players for seniors whilst minimising the damage to the existing state leagues.

If we want a try Reserves Comp then it needs to be represented by every AFL team. This will mean that for them all to play each other they will need to travel. A division/league system would reduce that amount of travel but in the end a National Reserves comp will require teams or the AFL to cover this additional cost. If the cost is too steep then the state leagues are the only answer

 

[The_Reaper]

If we want a try Reserves Comp then it needs to be represented by every AFL team. This will mean that for them all to play each other they will need to travel. A division/league system would reduce that amount of travel but in the end a National Reserves comp will require teams or the AFL to cover this additional cost. If the cost is too steep then the state leagues are the only answer

Why do they all have to play each other?

 

[Stewart2Austin Reborn]

From an SA perspective, an AFL reserves league would be great. Neither the SANFL or the SA AFL clubs are happy with the current agreement and we should look to change that.

The clear animosity between them (which is even evident in this thread!) should be reason enough for both PAFC and AFC to venture towards a new reserves set-up. If 8 SANFL clubs don't want us, then there's no point trying to convince them. They aren't changing their minds.

Besides, any 'agreement' that is put forth can never 100% satisfy all parties.

As it stands, the SANFL are worried about the integrity/inequality of their competition*, and, rightfully so. If the majority of stakeholders in the SANFL don't want AFL interference, then, democratically speaking, that's how it should be, no matter how much I personally disagree with that stance. Also, as it stands, both the Power and Crows want more say in how their allowed to structure their reserves sides, which the SANFL will never agree to.

Basically, no matter what middle-ground we arrive at, the SANFL, the PAFC and AFC will all be mostly unsatisfied.

We need to move.

*integrity/inequality wasn't an issue when Centrals won 9 premierships in 11 years from 2000 or 2010, or with Norwood doing a threepeat over 12/13/14

I'd be quite excited for reserves games to be curtain raisers. It would be good for the players with their development, as well as team bonding. It would be good for spectators who want to see more of their draftees, etc.

I suppose a glaring issue with the curtain raisers would be what happens when a player in the seniors side is injured right before the start of the match. Who replaces them? Someone who just played a full game? I can't remember who, but a Collingwood player did it last year or in 2013.

Still. I am incredibly in support of a national reserves league, partly because I'd like to see how depth players are going but mostly because Port and Crows get what they want and so do the SANFL.

 

[Lensen]

And the assumption is the neafl are happy to help the afl to weaken their comp and relegate them to the third tier comp

the NEAFL was literally created to provide stronger reserves competitions, but was an awkward hybrid as community clubs were also involved but have been dropping off

no reason the teams can't drop back to the QAFL and the NSW & ACT equivalents

 

[ZingerB]

It's more complicated than you're suggesting. There was a cost penalty for allowing the Licenses to be sold and games moved from Footy park to AO. If there is a short fall in profits as promised from the SMA then that's an entirely different matter.
Anyway let's get this thread back on track.
Cheers.

It is directly relevant to what you have been discussing and the broader issue of the 'proposed restrictions' which is itself directly relevant to the viability of Port and Adelaide in the SANFL (and therefore the utility of a national reserves league). The SANFL get to sell AAMI off, give it to the clubs (excluding Port which you know like contributed to it and all) and they get the SMA deal because we were forced to allow the SANFL to hold our license and we were only getting it back if the SANFL's financial future was secured even though they have no direct interest in AO, and they were gifted the land at West Lakes. So I say it again, if the SANFL clubs don't want us in their comp anymore, that's fine, tear up the SMA agreement, and stand on your own two feet.

 

[Norwood1878]

It is directly relevant to what you have been discussing and the broader issue of the 'proposed restrictions' which is itself directly relevant to the viability of Port and Adelaide in the SANFL (and therefore the utility of a national reserves league). The SANFL get to sell AAMI off, give it to the clubs (excluding Port which you know like contributed to it and all) and they get the SMA deal because we were forced to allow the SANFL to hold our license and we were only getting it back if the SANFL's financial future was secured even though they have no direct interest in AO, and they were gifted the land at West Lakes. So I say it again, if the SANFL clubs don't want us in their comp anymore, that's fine, tear up the SMA agreement, and stand on your own two feet.

Who's gonna compensate the SANFL for allowing games to be moved to AO?

 

[Stewart2Austin Reborn]

Who's gonna compensate the SANFL for allowing games to be moved to AO?

Are you talking about finals matches?

 

[damochandler]

there won't be one any time soon. the afl are going to press on with the neafl from what i have heard. west coast and freo will eventually have their own stand alone 2s team in the wafl. the afl clubs want their own ressies teams so they can control where and when these players that have missed out every week in the seniors

 

[master bate]

I think it is time. Almost all clubs have stand alone reserves teams and the ones that don't exhibit a strong control over their fortunes. Converting the state leagues back to state leagues would be good for them I think. Port Adelaide would be the main concern, they'd be a little unhappy having just come back together as 1 club.

West Conference:
West Div - the 4 WA and SA teams
Vic-W Div - 5 Vic teams

North Conference
North Div - 4 NSW and QLD teams
Vic-N Div - 5 Vic teams

I'd go with a 18 round season stretched out over 20-22 weeks. The question would be how to minimise travel and the costs associated with it. Not to mention the cost of the reserve listed players and how to make sure clubs in the non footy states can attract decent players. The divisions allow for minimising travel and then a ladder filled with teams who have had equal fixtures.

So for a non Vic team for example a WA team: 4 derbies. 2 home/2 away v SA teams. 5 home, 5 away v Vic teams = 7 travels.
For a Vic-W team: 8 all Vic games. 5 home, 5 away v WA/SA teams = 5 travels.

Shuffle the Vic W and Vic N clubs every year. Either randomly, rotating 2 teams each year or swapping based on the AFL or reserves ladder.

4 weeks of finals. Divisions winners play for a week off. 2 Wild card teams based on the best record play each other. Loser of the first game plays the winner of the second game and then whoever wins takes on the team who had the week off. Then the 2 winners of the 2 conferences play in the grand final.