Is it time for a National Reserves League?

[JPetro83]

Yes! the afl has $hitloads of cash to fund it.
they need a full blown reserves comp. each game to be played as the curtain raiser to finish a hour or 1 hour and 20 mins before the start of the main game so teams can get out there for their pre game warm ups.
Reserves finals to be played at suburban grounds and the Grand final to be played at the MCG as the curtain raiser to the main game that day. just like the old days.

 

[ZingerB]

Who's gonna compensate the SANFL for allowing games to be moved to AO?

Why do they need to be compensated? They don't own AO. The only reason they got anything is because they held a gun to the clubs heads as they controlled the licenses and would only give them up and allow a move if we agreed to the SMA deal where they don't do anything. The only reason it wasn't a bigger issue is because someone needs to fund the SANFL / grass roots and that is accepted, which goes to my earlier point. Does the SANFL want the AFL clubs or not? They are perfectly happy to reap the financial rewards we bring, as are the clubs. Meanwhile they do everything to exclude us and make us as weak as possible out of spite.

 

[Norwood1878]

Why do they need to be compensated? They don't own AO. The only reason they got anything is because they held a gun to the clubs heads as they controlled the licenses and would only give them up and allow a move if we agreed to the SMA deal where they don't do anything. The only reason it wasn't a bigger issue is because someone needs to fund the SANFL / grass roots and that is accepted, which goes to my earlier point. Does the SANFL want the AFL clubs or not? They are perfectly happy to reap the financial rewards we bring, as are the clubs. Meanwhile they do everything to exclude us and make us as weak as possible out of spite.

Yeah, that's right. So they relinquished control and moved games away from FP. For that they had a price. If PA didn't like it they shouldn't have signed off and agreed to the deal.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Why does it need to be a designated competition? Clearly the AFL clubs don't care about it and use it as a training venue, let them all just play scratch matches each week for their hit out against each other.
There is no need for them at all to be in any comp for a prize. They don't care so what's the point.
Just another AFL issue needing 2nd tier leagues to fix their issue.

 

[ZingerB]

Yeah, that's right. So they relinquished control and moved games away from FP. For that they had a price. If PA didn't like it they shouldn't have signed off and agreed to the deal.

A similar argument could be applied to allowing Port / Adelaide to have a reserves team **wink wink**. The difference is one was a decision imposed upon us (e.g we only got into the AFL by allowing the SANFL to own our license hence they owned us [literally]- after they deliberately blocked our entry into the AFL and imposed conditions that almost bankrupted the magpies), and the other was a voluntary decision which we gave considerable concessions for. Apparently that doesn't stop the SANFL through the clubs whining about it.

 

[Underdog]

Anyone know the average attendance of two AFL/VFL sides playing compared to two VFL sides?

 

[Norwood1878]

A similar argument could be applied to allowing Port / Adelaide to have a reserves team **wink wink**. The difference is one was a decision imposed upon us (e.g we only got into the AFL by allowing the SANFL to own our license hence they owned us [literally]- after they deliberately blocked our entry into the AFL and imposed conditions that almost bankrupted the magpies), and the other was a voluntary decision which we gave considerable concessions for. Apparently that doesn't stop the SANFL through the clubs whining about it.

How many millions did the SANFL gift the Power?

 

[ZingerB]

How many millions did the SANFL gift the Power?

And how many millions did they take off us in return, and how much did they make from us Pre 1997 when we were the powerhouse of the SANFL? Small hint - it is more than they have given us.

 

[SimonH]

.... Does the SANFL want the AFL clubs or not? ...

Depends what you mean by 'want'. Want them to exist and be sustainable in the AFL? Or want them to ride roughshod over everyone and everything so that every little whim gets granted, regardless of the rules, common sense, or the best interests of SA footy as a whole?

 

[Silent Alarm]

Port Melbourne trying to organise a breakaway league?

Very interesting. Is there any more on this?

Who would actually play in it? Clubs like Sandringham and Williamstown are soon to have no AFL affiliates, so there's them. But what about the Bullants? Are they still in contract/essentially owned by Carlton and would they continue on in the current VFL? Would we see classic old VFA clubs return?

 

[doggies ftw]

Pretty sure we had to stump up about 500k to make our VFL team work but that included upgrades to Whitten Oval. Its been brilliant so far. Huge advantage to have everyone on the list on the same page, playing the same way and playing in the positions they would be at AFL. Weve already seen the benfits having players step up to AFL seamlessly when required. Every team should be doing this and a reserves comp would be fantastic.

 

[Schauermann]

Obviously for the integrity of a second league the system of AFL players shared among the teams was much better. But it makes it harder for the AFL clubs to have influence on development of their players not making the main team. Still creating an artificial 2nds league will probably not be liked by many. Cultural thing. Some state league clubs have quite a long history. And supporters can watch their team every week without having to fly across the country. I actually like the system of splitting AFL players between state league team most even when it is a disadvantage for most AFL clubs. Also nice to see even AFL stars play a game for their original clubs at times...

PS Finals are a problem anyway when it comes to AFL players needing game time in a state league during finals time when their team didn't make finals there...

 

[Papa G]

Depends what you mean by 'want'. Want them to exist and be sustainable in the AFL? Or want them to ride roughshod over everyone and everything so that every little whim gets granted, regardless of the rules, common sense, or the best interests of SA footy as a whole?

Mate the SANFL only care about their own little fifedoms. Why the **** are they whinging so much about this? It's just their petty jealousies of Port continually over riding every thing they do. What the **** has Port playing in the SANFL got to do with the good of SA footy as a whole? What has taking Port's traditional country and metropolitan development zones off them by stealth got to do with the health of SA football as a whole? Port throughout time immemorial have developed SA football talent better than most, so "the benefit of SA football as a whole" can not be the reason, simple, ingrained hatred and jealousy is. Sure it's fine that Centrals with salary cap cheating funded by pokie money in Adelaide's most deprived and poorest region can play in 12 Grand Finals in a row winning 9, coinciding with their juniors rarely making finals in the same period, that's dandy, that's all good, that's great for SA football as a whole isn't it? Lets just paint this for what it is. Jealousy, hatred, Hypocrisy.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The simple reality is that while people might say they want the reserves side to play before the main game the facts are they still won't go and watch them.
East Perth were once s powerhouse club in the WAFL, they now have virtually the entire Eagles seconds side playing for them and their crowds have dropped. Why don't the thousands of Eagles members go watch their seconds play? They don't even go watch them in Grand Finals.
Alastair Clarkson pulled players off the ground in the VFL grand final which went down to the wire. He did it for the right reasons for Hawthorn but what about the right reasons for the 10-15 players who had to cop a loss because of it. Do you think they cared about Hawthorn winning the flag?
Ross Lyon rested all his players and Peel fielded a seconds side in a final and lost by 100 points.
Why on earth does it need to be a real comp, it's a training base and that's it.
All it should be with zero coverage, no TV, no funding. Treat it exactly as the AFL Clubs treat it. No need to hear a word about their training hit outs.

 

[ZingerB]

Depends what you mean by 'want'. Want them to exist and be sustainable in the AFL? Or want them to ride roughshod over everyone and everything so that every little whim gets granted, regardless of the rules, common sense, or the best interests of SA footy as a whole?

You have some serious victim complex going on. We were forced to have completely separate administrations at great cost which almost bankrupted the Magpies. Then to get a unified club again, we needed to renounce all voting rights and a share of the proceeds of the sale of AAMI + lose our recruiting zone. Then the SANFL changed the rules to prohibit us from bringing in interstate players last year(okay fine we don't really need them even though Krakeour is a good story but whatever). Now rumours are circling that some of the SANFL clubs want to restrict us to 14 AFL listed players in our reserve side and prevent us from playing at Alberton, completely negating the advantage of having a ****ing reserves side in the 1st place. All the while they are reaping the rewards from the SMA for doing absolutely nothing. You can take your petty, narrow-minded nonsense elsewhere

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Fair chance Selwood and/or McGinnity would have been rested anyway. Or in a reserves league they may have been emilinated already or forced to fly across the country to play a meaningless reserves match.

Cost is prohibitive.

 

[SimonH]

And how many millions did they take off us in return, and how much did they make from us Pre 1997 when we were the powerhouse of the SANFL? Small hint - it is more than they have given us.

I'm sorry, but that argument is pathetic. It is the argument of those who have nothing left to argue. All SANFL clubs contributed to the development, growth, success and assets of the SANFL from 1877. Like any sporting comp, the SANFL was/is an ongoing asset, where goodwill and brand (i.e. the idea that many thousands of South Australians will support their club and attend its matches year-in-year-out) is a major part of its value. Its assets were and are used to run the SANFL comp and otherwise promote and develop footy in SA. The SANFL comp benefitted from having strong, well-supported clubs playing good footy; the clubs benefited from playing in the premier competition in South Australia, with all that that brought. SANFL is not, and was never, a mountain of money that got a little higher every year.

The idea that one of its clubs, a few years after it leaves the SANFL for another comp (thereby diminishing the value of the SANFL comp) and gets itself into financial strife, is entitled to draw down from some imaginary cash reserve, the notional cash value of the part it played in the comp over the previous 120 years, is a non-sequitur. It does not follow.

It's directly analogous to a businessman saying, 'I left the company that I owned a 10% share of, to take a bigger, brighter offer elsewhere—but that bigger, brighter offer didn't turn out so well financially, and just landed me in a mound of debt, so now I've got an entitlement—goddamn it, I've got a right—to demand endless loans from my former company to get me back on my feet. If anything, that company should thank me. Without me, they'd be nothing'. One of few things more hilarious than that line of logic, would be the bidding documents and associated financial forecasts that Port Adelaide produced circa 1994/95 to accompany their bid for an AFL licence (small hint—they didn't say, 'give us an AFL licence, and in a decade or so we'll be a financial basket-case, requiring propping up to the tune of millions'). It's a shame that they don't seem to be readily available online. Despite the paranoia of many Port people, if there were anyone out there in the corridors of SA footy power who really did have a vendetta against Port, they'd just need to publish those very, very costly works of fiction.

 

[Ant_]

Port Melbourne trying to organise a breakaway league?

Very interesting. Is there any more on this?

Who would actually play in it? Clubs like Sandringham and Williamstown are soon to have no AFL affiliates, so there's them. But what about the Bullants? Are they still in contract/essentially owned by Carlton and would they continue on in the current VFL? Would we see classic old VFA clubs return?

Williamstown has been stand alone for 2 years

 

[ZingerB]

I'm sorry, but that argument is pathetic. It is the argument of those who have nothing left to argue. All SANFL clubs contributed to the development, growth, success and assets of the SANFL from 1877. Like any sporting comp, the SANFL was/is an ongoing asset, where goodwill and brand (i.e. the idea that many thousands of South Australians will support their club and attend its matches year-in-year-out) is a major part of its value. Its assets were and are used to run the SANFL comp and otherwise promote and develop footy in SA. The SANFL comp benefitted from having strong, well-supported clubs playing good footy; the clubs benefited from playing in the premier competition in South Australia, with all that that brought. SANFL is not, and was never, a mountain of money that got a little higher every year.

The idea that one of its clubs, a few years after it leaves the SANFL for another comp (thereby diminishing the value of the SANFL comp) and gets itself into financial strife, is entitled to draw down from some imaginary cash reserve, the notional cash value of the part it played in the comp over the previous 120 years, is a non-sequitur. It does not follow.

It's directly analogous to a businessman saying, 'I left the company that I owned a 10% share of, to take a bigger, brighter offer elsewhere—but that bigger, brighter offer didn't turn out so well financially, and just landed me in a mound of debt, so now I've got an entitlement—goddamn it, I've got a right—to demand endless loans from my former company to get me back on my feet. If anything, that company should thank me. Without me, they'd be nothing'. One of few things more hilarious than that line of logic, would be the bidding documents and associated financial forecasts that Port Adelaide produced circa 1994/95 to accompany their bid for an AFL licence (small hint—they didn't say, 'give us an AFL licence, and in a decade or so we'll be a financial basket-case, requiring propping up to the tune of millions'). It's a shame that they don't seem to be readily available online. Despite the paranoia of many Port people, if there were anyone out there in the corridors of SA footy power who really did have a vendetta against Port, they'd just need to publish those very, very costly works of fiction.

As pointed out numerous times, the amount coming out from the PAFC through stadium deals eclipses the amount going back in. Do we factor in the free rent Adelaide has got for 20 years or is only a problem when it is Port Adelaide. Not to mention the splitting of the administrations. You don't get to rip money out hand over fist, made costly demands of us, and then whinge when we lose money.

 

[Silent Alarm]

The issue for me is that a national reserves league could dilute the interest in the WAFL/SANFL and those classic old Melbs' clubs, but then having AFL teams in those competitions as stand-alones or with sister partnerships ends up insulting the integrity of those competitions and clubs.

 

[master bate]

Port Melbourne trying to organise a breakaway league?

Very interesting. Is there any more on this?

Who would actually play in it? Clubs like Sandringham and Williamstown are soon to have no AFL affiliates, so there's them. But what about the Bullants? Are they still in contract/essentially owned by Carlton and would they continue on in the current VFL? Would we see classic old VFA clubs return?

Port, Williamstown, Coburg I guess then grab on to Sandy when the Saints leave. Frankston.

North Ballarat and Werribee could potentially dump North considering they only share the reserves players.

Box Hill and the Northern Blues you'd think are too far ingrained with Hawthorn and Carlton and the Casey-Melb relationship isn't a great one but neither club have the resources to break it off.

A stepwise reintroduction of the reserves would probably see the old VFA clubs break off and the Victorian teams play amongst each other. Then maybe integrate matches against the NSW/QLD teams either together or separate to the NEAFL (ie teams could play once a month against a VFL team but mainly in the NEAFL) followed by the WA and SA clubs coming in.

 

[The_Reaper]

The issue for me is that a national reserves league could dilute the interest in the WAFL/SANFL and those classic old Melbs' clubs, but then having AFL teams in those competitions as stand-alones or with sister partnerships ends up insulting the integrity of those competitions and clubs.

Everything indicates that the SANFL has suffered a lot under the new model.

Both crowds and tv ratings are significantly down

 

[DazzaTys]

The AFL wants a national reserve competition, its just the pissants in South Australia don't.

Please don't tar us with the same brush. The SANFL is run by a bunch of inbred, inflexible and uncomprimising bunch of campaigners known to man. The sooner we get the hell out of that camp into a national reserve comp the better.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Everything indicates that the SANFL has suffered a lot under the new model.

Both crowds and tv ratings are significantly down

So how will taking 40 players out of the competition assist that?

 

[The_Reaper]

So how will taking 40 players out of the competition assist that?

Takes out 20% of the teams that aren't making winning their number 1 priority.

Given Adelaide and Port already have standalone reserves sides none of the SANFL sides will be weakened