Is it time for a National Reserves League?

[Ellie Aquitaine]

The NSW and Queensland reserves teams already play each other multiple times each year. Games against the other NEAFL sides are limited. Of those teams , several are pretty high standard now. Not VFL standard but not easy beats.

You're kidding. The gap between NT Thunder, Aspley and Syd Uni and the rest of the standalone teams (based on ladder position) was huge. Of consistently high standard, probably only NT Thunder.

Of all the people talking about the "glory days" of a Reserves curtain raiser, who honestly is going to bother getting there early and sitting through 5-6 hours of footy in one go? Might have been a fun novelty as a kid (until you got tired or bored, as kids often do), but I doubt many would do it consistently as an adult.

I usually aim to be at the NEAFL for the second half when they're playing the curtain-raiser for GWS. And since GWS have a lot of afternoon games, it is an early start but I'd argue that it might get more people than when they play a stand-alone at Blacktown.

The NEAFL is going to be overhauled again for 2017 when Clubs licenses expire. There are probably two or three stand alone teams that provide regular challenges to the reserves sides and the fortunes of the reserves sides are dependent on the health of the senior squad.

From a development perspective the young players drafted to the AFL teams in NSW and Qld, including the academy players, would benefit more from a reserves comp where the overall skill level is higher than the current NEAFL standard.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I really hope we create a national reserve comp and I look forward to the day the SANFL dies.

Mind you I quite enjoy watching them fall further and further into an irrelevance

Probably the worst comment I have ever seen on BF.

 

[saintal]

Probably the worst comment I have ever seen on BF.

It's a sentiment shared by many (most?) Power supporters. Was surprised the comment didn't use the words "campaigners" and/or "pissant".

 

[aCunningPlan]

I could see the SANFL and WAFL surviving a reserves comp being established, the media coverage is still there and people still identify with the clubs. Even though all my family is Victorian, the fact I was raised in South Australia means I always keep track of how westies are going along. The VFL however is overrun with AFL reserves sides, I've lived in Ballarat for eight years and have not once seen a Roosters match. A look in the papers sees the vfl reduced to a ten line summary on a Monday, compare that to the 'tiser and you get full teams, game previews and reviews of the local comp along with radio commentary of just about every match.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It's a sentiment shared by many (most?) Power supporters. Was surprised the comment didn't use the words "campaigners" and/or "pissant".

Yep they have real bee in their bonnet!!!

 

[chiwigi]

Probably the worst comment I have ever seen on BF.

Why?
Do you not understand the harm they cause both to the local AND national game.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Why?
Do you not understand the harm they cause both to the local AND national game.

Your kidding right? What harm do the SANFL cause the local and National game?
You do know that only a very small percentage of footballers play AFL yes? You must also know that AFL is not everything in the football world, if you were not quite good enough like hundreds and thousands of players aren't they should be able to play in seriously strong high level comps like the SANFL and have a good career and make a bit of coin on the way.
Only one in a hundred at best make it to the AFL, so in your world there should be no leagues under the AFL?
I know Port have had some issues with the SANFL but to wish for the League to not exist is just stupid on so many levels.

 

[Power Raid]

Yep they have real bee in their bonnet!!!

yep we do

the sanfl nearly killed us and you couldn't believe the effort that had to be rolled out to get them off PAFCs board. In my opinion and the corporations act is, an director not acting in the interest of the company should be removed and may face criminal and civil penalties. It is rare a company or its shareholders take action against directors as it only adds to the pain.

We may never seek legal remedies but we will never forget.

PS Port also helped the crows through the same period.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

yep we do

the sanfl nearly killed us and you couldn't believe the effort that had to be rolled out to get them off PAFCs board. In my opinion and the corporations act is, an director not acting in the interest of the company should be removed and may face criminal and civil penalties. It is rare a company or its shareholders take action against directors as it only adds to the pain.

We may never seek legal remedies but we will never forget.

PS Port also helped the crows through the same period.

That's all good and well and we only ever hear the Port side of things on here. But the SANFL has a place in footy as a major second tier Comp and that was what I am replying to. The SANFL dying is in no ones best interest.

 

[chiwigi]

Your kidding right? What harm do the SANFL cause the local and National game?
You do know that only a very small percentage of footballers play AFL yes? You must also know that AFL is not everything in the football world, if you were not quite good enough like hundreds and thousands of players aren't they should be able to play in seriously strong high level comps like the SANFL and have a good career and make a bit of coin on the way.
Only one in a hundred at best make it to the AFL, so in your world there should be no leagues under the AFL?
I know Port have had some issues with the SANFL but to wish for the League to not exist is just stupid on so many levels.

Do some research (there's plenty out there) then comment, don't rant through ignorance. If you think the SANFL is about grassroots football, then that's where your first piece of research needs to be.

 

[Papa G]

That's all good and well and we only ever hear the Port side of things on here. But the SANFL has a place in footy as a major second tier Comp and that was what I am replying to. The SANFL dying is in no ones best interest.

The SANFL clubs can not accept their place on the pecking order. They think they should still be calling the shots, they think they should be in charge. It is not like in WA where from a far at least, the interactions and dealings between the AFL clubs, the WAFL and WAFC seem far more cordial and mutually beneficial. Their hatred and jealousy of Port Adelaide in particular has not dissipated and to them the Crows were nothing but their cash cow. The live in a deluded world where they still think it's 1982. They have been demoted to a second tier league with waning interest. The SANFL heirachy for all those years tried to plug the dam wall and refused to see what was coming and in the end got over run. They managed to negotiate to maintain power, but to the detriment of the AFL clubs. Their "second best league" mantra is a deluded ****ing joke. If they concentrated harder on being community based clubs and breeding grounds for elite talent (and actually negotiated better rewards for producing talent from the AFL than just simply bleeding the 2 SA based AFL clubs) the better off they would be instead of being bitter and twisted that it ain't 1982 any more.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The SANFL clubs can not accept their place on the pecking order. They think they should still be calling the shots, they think they should be in charge. It is not like in WA where from a far at least, the interactions and dealings between the AFL clubs, the WAFL and WAFC seem far more cordial and mutually beneficial. Their hatred and jealousy of Port Adelaide in particular has not dissipated and to them the Crows were nothing but their cash cow. The live in a deluded world where they still think it's 1982. They have been demoted to a second tier league with waning interest. The SANFL heirachy for all those years tried to plug the dam wall and refused to see what was coming and in the end got over run. They managed to negotiate to maintain power, but to the detriment of the AFL clubs. Their "second best league" mantra is a deluded ******* joke. If they concentrated harder on being community based clubs and breeding grounds for elite talent (and actually negotiated better rewards for producing talent from the AFL than just simply bleeding the 2 SA based AFL clubs) the better off they would be instead of being bitter and twisted that it ain't 1982 any more.

I do not agree that the mandate for second tier leagues is simply to produce talent for the AFL. Yes that is a bi product of the league but it should not be their mandate. Their mandate first and foremost must be to win the state league premiership cup.
When you have over 90% of your participants in that state league that are focused solely on that league the mandate must be for those 90% to achieve the highest success in that league.
You say they should have a focus on grass roots footy and community footy but all that costs money, if Port and the Crows don't contribute to the pie then where do those state leagues get the money from to do the job the AFL clubs don't wish to do?
Yes we seem to have a better system here in WA but that also has some issues, clearly not to the extent that you guys have had but it may occur when the new stadium here is finished.

Once again my comments are based on that I don't want any state league to fold, they have taken enough hits as it is.

 

[the harry]

This wouldn't have been a problem if we made Scooter come back through & spend a enough time in the WAFL to force his way into the senior side, rather than giving him a free pass.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

This wouldn't have been a problem if we made Scooter come back through & spend a enough time in the WAFL to force his way into the senior side, rather than giving him a free pass.

To be honest it's not a problem at all, Freo are not complaining their players can't play this weekend. A nothing issue made into something by the Eagles. Will have zero effect on anything that happens at the Eagles.

 

[The_Reaper]

This wouldn't have been a problem if we made Scooter come back through & spend a enough time in the WAFL to force his way into the senior side, rather than giving him a free pass.

To be honest it's not a problem at all, Freo are not complaining their players can't play this weekend. A nothing issue made into something by the Eagles. Will have zero effect on anything that happens at the Eagles.

This weeks problem is barely nothing.

The real problem is that forcing the state leagues to cope with the AFL reserves leagues, the state leagues are getting damaged.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

This weeks problem is barely nothing.

The real problem is that forcing the state leagues to cope with the AFL reserves leagues, the state leagues are getting damaged.

I don't think a national reserves league can work and it is also a huge waste of money.
I do think AFL reserves sides can play in State Leagues though but it needs tweaking.
I will speak for WA only here.
Eagles to form their own side, Dockers to take over Peel and then we have a 10 team comp with no byes.
AFL reserves do not participate in Finals as they don't care about them and their main thought is the AFL.
When finals approach the two AFL clubs can organise scratch matches against any other AFL clubs that also want a hit out.
I don't think any AFL clubs reserves sides should be in finals in any State League, it is clear they don't give a crap about it so it would not be an issue for them.
The State Leagues would regain some integrity and these issues which happen yearly would no longer be an issue.
As an example this weekend the Eagles reserves could of had a hit out with the Adelaide reserves be that in Adelaide or in Perth. Yes there would be a cost but far less than a national reserves comp which no one will care about.
I don't see any other alternative, we can't have second tier finals being compromised by AFL clubs.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I can't wait to dance on the SANFL's grave

 

[Papa G]

This "integrity" line bleated by the SANFL is bloody hilarious too. They demanded that both Port and Adelaide "play the line" meaning they'll always play their best team. Then they bleat when Port in particular play too well, then on the other hand they argue that the the "integrity" of the finals is at risk because it's not the primary aim of the AFL clubs to win the SANFL flag, then on the other hand ban a player who played 10/18 Magpies games and desperately wanted to play from playing finals.

Integrity? Pfffft.

 

[Underdog]

A national reserves league will cause barely a ripple to the viability of state leagues. Nobody supports reserves football and very few attend the WAFL to watch AFL players, they do so to support their local side.

I have no problem whatsoever if the AFL want to withdraw their players from the state leagues to field reserve teams.

 

[saintal]

"Integrity" is not possible when you have 8 participants playing by one set of rules, and 2 others with their own unique circumstances and agendas. As for Sam Gray, Port knew the qualification rules prior to the Freo game. Why have rules if they're not going to be followed?

 

[Portmanteau]

"Integrity" is not possible when you have 8 participants playing by one set of rules, and 2 others with their own unique circumstances and agendas. As for Sam Gray, Port knew the qualification rules prior to the Freo game. Why have rules if they're not going to be followed?

There was quite a reasonable argument to be mounted given Gray missed an SANFL game due to a game being postponed I'm the wake of the Walsh tragedy. We weren't just applying for the hell of it.

As an aside, I always find it a bit comical when SA-based fans of an SANFL team but AFL team outside of Crows/Port argue the SANFL integrity issue until their blue in their face but seem unaffected that their AFL team benefits from an unencumbered reserves arrangement in the VFL/WAFL/otherwise. Bottom line there is extreme paranoia about two SANFL participants whose supposed competitive advantage is yet to garner any tremendous results. Combined the Adelaide/Port reserves are pretty much average. What is the big problem?

 

[Beasley]

The VFL seems to be working well for the Melbourne clubs. No need to change a thing.

 

[doona]

To expensive.

 

[deck]

Scott Selwood and Pat McGinnity are unable to play this weekend for East Perth because they haven't played enough WAFL games to qualify - understandably West Coast aren't happy but fair enough on the WAFL standing up for the integrity of it's own final series.

In the first week of the WAFL finals, Fremantle resting a whole bunch of players meant that Peel had to field a virtual reserves team in it's first ever finals match and was predictably smashed by over in 100 points.

Looking over in SA and it seems that the standalone AFL reserves sides have had a severely negative impact on both SANFL attendance and tv viewers.

The NSW and QLD sides are significantly disadvantaged by playing against weak standalone sides with players significantly below SANFL/VFL/WAFL standard. The standalone sides are disadvantaged by the arbitrary merger of NSW and QLD leagues leading to much higher costs. In the short history of the NEAFL, many teams have already voluntarily relegated themselves.

In Victoria the former VFA is pretty much dead and apparently Port Melbourne are looking to try and organise a break away league.

The current situation disadvantages 4 AFL clubs, slightly disadvantages some WA clubs like West Coast this weekend but most of all is having a severely negative impact on football at the lower levels which will eventually affect the AFL.

So it's time to bring back the Reserves league.

In regards to how it would work it would be separated into two conferences

National Conference

Divided into two divisions of four teams. Each team plays each other team in it's division 4 times (12 matches) and plays each team in the other division twice (8 matches) for a total of 20 matches.
There is a combined ladder for both divisions.

Northern Division
1. Brisbane
2. Gold Coast
3. Sydney
4. UWS

Western Division
1. Adelaide
2. Fremantle
3. Port Adelaide
4. West Coast

Victorian Conference

One division of ten teams. Each team plays seven other teams twice (14) and two teams three times (6) for a total of 20 matches.

1. Box Hill
2. Collingwood
3. Essendon
4. Footscray
5. Geelong
6. Melbourne
7. North Melbourne
8. Northern Blues
9. Richmond
10. St Kilda

Finals works the same as the AFL


Finals
1. Vic Conference 1
2. Nat Conference 1
3. Vic Conference 2
4. Nat Conference 2
5. Vic Conference 3
6. Nat Conference 3
7. Vic Conference 4
8. Nat Conference 4

The highest ranked team hosts the Grand Final. If it's 1st vs 1st then the time with more points over the season hosts. If they have the same number of wins than the team with the higher percentage hosts.

How does this idea solve the original problem?

There is no guarantee the same teams are playing finals leaving teams with no reserves playing in september.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

BINGO