Is it time?

[76woodenspooners]

Most clubs don't change coaches of winning teams.

Some do and it works out alright?

Both Geelong and Sydney changed coaches around the same time and it worked out alright for them?

 

[Robroy22]

Ahhh the Hawthorn Model.
For 50 odd years the whipping boys, they made up the numbers....bit like the Tigers and the Saints before Hafey and Jeans. And then into the breach stepped John Kennedy. He gave them the ticker, he gave them the belief, they built a dynasty on Kennedy's beliefs and on his ruthlessness. Who was the president of the Hawks back then??
After Kennedy another ruthless coach stepped in, Allan Jeans. The man that ordered Jimmy O'Dea to "take care of Greening"....and more success followed....even when Jeans was sick in hospital, Alan Joyce coached the Hawks to yet another Flag! (A drovers dog could have)
Despite all their success on field however the Hawkers still nearly went down the gurgler ad they would have too hadn't Don Scott stepped up and inspired the masses (his speech that night was reminiscent of his mentors Kennedy and Jeans). So they scraped together the $$$ they needed to survive (really well run club they were huh?) and they scrimped and scratched and scraped along with little success until the superdrafts that netted them Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Franklin, Roughead, Rioli and Croad (whom they swapped and reswapped successfully twice!)
And now we speak of them as visionaries! Their model is to be copied by all and sundry! Their success is to be vaunted as "See...thats what we should be doing"
Well you know what?
If One of Kennedy, Jeans, Scott, Matthews, Hudson and their contemporaries, Hodge and the rest of the superdraft, Clarkson.... if any one of these gentlemen had not been at Hawthorn over the last 50 years it MAY not have happened like it has.
I hate to tell you but the best run businesses can still fail (GFC anyone?) The best intentioned leaders can still missread the circumstances they face and put their shareholders into terrible strife.
The Hawks, just like our own "Invincibles" have been the best team of their generation. Their political mantra has not won them footy games, Cyril has! Their president changing regularly hasn't got the hardballs that Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis have and their off field departments haven't had the killer finish that Breust and Burgoyne have been able to deliver.
We can all aspire to greatness, but lets face it in an open race, the best still wins, no matter what their sponsors or presidents say!

 

[MISFITS]

As it stands the currant Collingwood board members are:
Edward McGuire
Alex Waislitz
Alisa Camplin
Christine Holgate
Mark Korda
Paul Leeds
Ian McMullin
Gary Pert

Of these candidates is the likely successor to McGuire.

 

[Apex36]

And he almost sent the club into extinction too.

Towards the end of the 2009 season we got within weeks away from being shutdown by the Westpac bank. The only reason we weren't is because of the million dollars we raised through the 'Club 5' campaign to pre-sell five year memberships. We then went on to win a Premiership ($$$), divest ourselves of the pubs debacle, and the rest is history .

He took over at the end of 2008. The club was already in a dire situation at that time, and Eddie had to spend that whole year devising a suitable strategy to dig the club out of the hole it was well and truly in up to its neck.

To say that 'he almost sent the club to exctinction too' as if he was in any way responsible for getting the club in to that position is deceitful and completely disrespectful to the man who is responsible for keeping the club you support in existence.

 

[CFC2010]

Leave Eddie alone get rid of Pert is my vote.

By the way a few months ago (after Carogate) I heard a rumour that Eddie was forced to step down.

Not sure if people remember but I posted a photo of Ed with my son & I after the Gold Coast game.

I couldn't resist so I asked him if he was stepping down this year...........he replied......NO WAY.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I havent seen McGuire ever stop trying to further the cause of the club.

Nobody would ever dispute Ed's passion

It's Ed's competency and longevity in the role that is the subject of debate.

And there is no one better that has presented to take over.

How would we know? Unless they're in the media (McGuire, Koch, Brayshaw) or politics (Kennett) we'd have no idea who is out there and what they're capable of. And whilst the media and politics are valid stocks to draft Presidents from, they're not the only source of them.

So having your little tantrums about things that don't go the way you want them, are exercises in futility.

Questioning whether 17 years is long enough for our President to serve isn't unreasonable

 

[Sco80]

Nobody would ever dispute Ed's passion

It's Ed's competency and longevity in the role that is the subject of debate.



How would we know? Unless they're in the media (McGuire, Koch, Brayshaw) or politics (Kennett) we'd have no idea who is out there and what they're capable of. And whilst the media and politics are valid stocks to draft Presidents from, they're not the only source of them.



Questioning whether 17 years is long enough for our President to serve isn't unreasonable

I agree. 17 years is a long time. A fresh insight would do wonders. Ed has set the club up beautifully off field so it would be hard to ham that side of things up unless of course he overstays and we continue to plummet down the ladder.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Put up some names that would do a better job than Ed...
I can't think of a better man for the job....still.

That's kinda like asking who is a more famous Collingwood person than Ed?

There are probably lots of very capable and passionate Collingwood members who are captains of business and industry who could do a brilliant job.

Pretty sure none of us had heard of Christine Holgate before this year, but if she was running the show and was able to deliver Collingwood the kind of success that she's achieved for Blackmores, then we'd have a very chuffed supporter base.

 

[jmac70]

The succession plan delivered our club's 15th Premiership, how can you possibly say it's been a complete failure?

I don't agree with that. Had MM been given a two year contract extension in 2009 we still would have won the flag, IMO.

 

[jmac70]

Some do and it works out alright?

Both Geelong and Sydney changed coaches around the same time and it worked out alright for them?

In those cases the incumbent coach wanted to leave.

 

[mattys123]

In the end the president of the club isn't that overly important.

Ed became the face of our club and still is to a large degree.

But our success, or lack of success can't be put down to one man.

Ed wouldn't have been the one who pushed for Davoren to be installed, or kept as the sports science chief.
Ed wouldn't have been the one who recruited Young, Karnezis, Lynch etc over the past few years.
Ed wouldn't have been the one who invited Trevor Hendy and the LT crew to take over the football department.

Ed was complicit in the coaching succession deal, but that will come to an end next year it seems.

He has helped set this club up for a sustainable long term future (once again not all his doing), that can not be questioned, especially when the boss of the AFL (Good old Gill) says that 10 clubs will lose money this year.

We are going ok, we have a good young list, a strong financial situation, all we have to do now is figure out once again how to take advantage of our strengths and translate them to on field performance.

I trust ED to do that, can't see anyone better waiting in the wings anyway, I reckon Delly might be the next best candidate and he won't retire for another 10 years from basketball.

Keep Ed, make other changes.

 

[76woodenspooners]

He took over at the end of 2008. The club was already in a dire situation at that time, and Eddie had to spend that whole year devising a suitable strategy to dig the club out of the hole it was well and truly in up to its neck.

To say that 'he almost sent the club to exctinction too' as if he was in any way responsible for getting the club in to that position is deceitful and completely disrespectful to the man who is responsible for keeping the club you support in existence.

Ed took over at the end of 1999 ... The pubs debacle happened under his watch.

Maybe you're getting him mixed up with Pert?

 

[Sco80]

That's kinda like asking who is a more famous Collingwood person than Ed?

There are probably lots of very capable and passionate Collingwood members who are captains of business and industry who could do a brilliant job.

Pretty sure none of us had heard of Christine Holgate before this year, but if she was running the show and was able to deliver Collingwood the kind of success that she's achieved for Blackmores, then we'd have a very chuffed supporter base.

Exactly. Maybe a female perspective may be the way to go also

 

[76woodenspooners]

If we lose Eddie we will never get out of the mess we are in.

Did you say the same about McAlister in the 90's?

 

[76woodenspooners]

I don't agree with that. Had MM been given a two year contract extension in 2009 we still would have won the flag, IMO.

Let's agree to disagree

 

[Saintly Viewed]

John Wiley?
The Melbourne Club boy. The one who interviened in the ASADA investigation despite his government appointed drugs commission role.
Fitzpatricks mate. No thanks.

Kelly. Yes, great sports management acrament but he will make Buckley Coach for life as he and Pert were the two key figures that removed Malthouse for Bucks.

Bertrand? The West Australian. Not sure. He had his hands full with the mess that is Swimming Australia.
I am with you 90 percent Saintly, but more of these nominations then we should definitely keep Ed as president for life!

I've just given the names touted around the traps. Though bertrand was more me.
I'm sure there are various candidates that could emerge.
Oh, I'm totally in agreement re Kelly. I'd prefer Ed easily.
John Wylie? Don't know enough about him, other than I hear he's well regarded but if he's in Melb Club, I think the world has moved on from that stuff.

A person I thought of as well is Paul Leeds who has been on the VRC committee (well regarded loves racing so can't be half bad) and Board experience with Collingwood.

I must say the general discussion I this thread has been excellent because it is more about the discussion that's what can happen, cheap shots delivered etc.

Good work all.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Ahhh the Hawthorn Model.
For 50 odd years the whipping boys, they made up the numbers....bit like the Tigers and the Saints before Hafey and Jeans. And then into the breach stepped John Kennedy. He gave them the ticker, he gave them the belief, they built a dynasty on Kennedy's beliefs and on his ruthlessness. Who was the president of the Hawks back then??
After Kennedy another ruthless coach stepped in, Allan Jeans. The man that ordered Jimmy O'Dea to "take care of Greening"....and more success followed....even when Jeans was sick in hospital, Alan Joyce coached the Hawks to yet another Flag! (A drovers dog could have)
Despite all their success on field however the Hawkers still nearly went down the gurgler ad they would have too hadn't Don Scott stepped up and inspired the masses (his speech that night was reminiscent of his mentors Kennedy and Jeans). So they scraped together the $$$ they needed to survive (really well run club they were huh?) and they scrimped and scratched and scraped along with little success until the superdrafts that netted them Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Franklin, Roughead, Rioli and Croad (whom they swapped and reswapped successfully twice!)
And now we speak of them as visionaries! Their model is to be copied by all and sundry! Their success is to be vaunted as "See...thats what we should be doing"
Well you know what?
If One of Kennedy, Jeans, Scott, Matthews, Hudson and their contemporaries, Hodge and the rest of the superdraft, Clarkson.... if any one of these gentlemen had not been at Hawthorn over the last 50 years it MAY not have happened like it has.
I hate to tell you but the best run businesses can still fail (GFC anyone?) The best intentioned leaders can still missread the circumstances they face and put their shareholders into terrible strife.
The Hawks, just like our own "Invincibles" have been the best team of their generation. Their political mantra has not won them footy games, Cyril has! Their president changing regularly hasn't got the hardballs that Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis have and their off field departments haven't had the killer finish that Breust and Burgoyne have been able to deliver.
We can all aspire to greatness, but lets face it in an open race, the best still wins, no matter what their sponsors or presidents say!

Super star post.
Give me a terrific list, healthy players, get ball, use ball well, direction and voila success follows

 

[Saintly Viewed]

As it stands the currant Collingwood board members are:
Edward McGuire
Alex Waislitz
Alisa Camplin
Christine Holgate
Mark Korda
Paul Leeds
Ian McMullin
Gary Pert

Of these candidates is the likely successor to McGuire.

Paul Leeds

Gary is on the board because he's CEO? I'm assuming?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

That's kinda like asking who is a more famous Collingwood person than Ed?

There are probably lots of very capable and passionate Collingwood members who are captains of business and industry who could do a brilliant job.

Pretty sure none of us had heard of Christine Holgate before this year, but if she was running the show and was able to deliver Collingwood the kind of success that she's achieved for Blackmores, then we'd have a very chuffed supporter base.

And she could get balmey to front their advertising.


Got to admit nobody does injury reports like balmey, I think, maybe, short term, or longer.....

 

[76woodenspooners]

In the end the president of the club isn't that overly important.

Couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

IMHO it's the most important role.

Success is driven by culture, and culture is driven from the top.

Ed became the face of our club and still is to a large degree.

Agree

But our success, or lack of success can't be put down to one man.

No, but it's the President and the board who make all the important appointments and set the strategic direction of the club and drive the organisational culture.

Ed wouldn't have been the one who pushed for Davoren to be installed, or kept as the sports science chief.

Maybe, but Ed and the board would have appointed the person who did decide to recruit Davoren and to keep him.

Ed wouldn't have been the one who recruited Young, Karnezis, Lynch etc over the past few years.

Ditto

Ed wouldn't have been the one who invited Trevor Hendy ...

Ditto

... and the LT crew to take over the football department.

Ed and the board would / should have been deeply involved in that decision.

Ed was complicit in the coaching succession deal, but that will come to an end next year it seems.

A fait accompli you reckon?

He has helped set this club up for a sustainable long term future (once again not all his doing), that can not be questioned, especially when the boss of the AFL (Good old Gill) says that 10 clubs will lose money this year.

True

We are going ok, we have a good young list, a strong financial situation, all we have to do now is figure out once again how to take advantage of our strengths and translate them to on field performance.

I don't think we can take our off-field position for granted.

I trust ED to do that, can't see anyone better waiting in the wings anyway, I reckon Delly might be the next best candidate and he won't retire for another 10 years from basketball.

What are the criteria for being a good Collingwood presidential candidate?

How would Delly fit that criteria?

(Serious question)

 

[Baltimore Jack]

It's probably a topical question ...

... IIRC the last time his position was ratified in the AGM was start of 2014, IIRC the board has three year terms, so he's probably coming up for re-election. It'll be either start of 2017 or 2018. Baltimore Jack do you know?

Keep an eye on the CFC website, they announce that kind of stuff around this time of year, in the dark hours of the season.

If anybody wants to challenge then they'd better get their skates on and start preparing, because Ed already has ...

.... In the absence of finals, what better way to appease the AGM crowd than to bring Gubby back and sack half the assistants?

Yeah, I seem to recall it was 2014

 

[mattys123]

Couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

IMHO it's the most important role.

Success is driven by culture, and culture is driven from the top.



Agree



No, but it's the President and the board who make all the important appointments and set the strategic direction of the club and drive the organisational culture.



Maybe, but Ed and the board would have appointed the person who did decide to recruit Davoren and to keep him.



Ditto



Ditto



Ed and the board would / should have been deeply involved in that decision.



A fait accompli you reckon?



True



I don't think we can take our off-field position for granted.



What are the criteria for being a good Collingwood presidential candidate?

How would Delly fit that criteria?

(Serious question)

The Delly thing was a bit facetious, it seems our president has to have a larger then life personality due to the profile of our club.

The normal criteria for someone to be President (of any club) would be a successful business background with extensive contacts and obviously a life long fan of that club.

It does seem that the role of President at our club is more important than it is at some others, and maybe we could change that when/if Ed is longer President.

A question, how many current club presidents can you name? I'd be lucky to get 4 correct I reckon, showing that at most clubs it's not the most important role.

The CEO seems to have taken over that "most important" title at most clubs, but probably not ours, yet.

Whether that's a good thing or not, I simply don't know.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Other than that group who make some noise online about challenging him, but never do anything about it ...

My read on the mood from AGM's is that there is a lot of underlying dissent towards Ed, the members would love to have other candidates to be put up and give a strong showing, but that'd be just to keep Ed in line because at the end of the day they'd vote to keep him in by a narrow majority.

 

[76woodenspooners]

A question, how many current club presidents can you name? I'd be lucky to get 4 correct I reckon, ...

You'd be doing better than me!

... showing that at most clubs it's not the most important role. The CEO seems to have taken over that "most important" title at most clubs, but probably not ours, yet.

Fame isn't a measure of importance (or power)

 

[Saintly Viewed]

some well known types that are Collingwood supporters, who in theory may have suitable qualifications for board positions.

No judgment is made on them, just throwing out some names. Herb Elliot of puma is likely too old now.

John Brumby (Premier Victoria, and Treadurer)
Richard Alston (Victorian senator, high networks)
Paul Keating (Prime Minister) (only joking) (seriously only joking)
John Bertrand (see previous discussion; very articulate media performer)

I'm sure there are others out there