Analysis Is Leppa the Right Man for the Job?

[hench]

What % chance do you give Leppa to be coach Round 1 2018? And do you want to waste 2017 to see what happens?

 

[SizeMatters]

Leppa has given up. I think he resigned to the fact he was likely to get the boot after the Pies game TBH. He is a shell of a man and just seems so lost and mentally weak. Time to go Leppa.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I'm not pro Leppa, in fact as of the weekend I'm convinced he won't last, but I think your comparison needs to be prefaced by a couple of points.
A) Essendon's entire set-up is based around limiting the damage. A very defensively minded structure that has held up reasonably well all things considered. "So why don't Brisbane follow suit and place a higher premium on defence?" Glad you asked.
B) As we now know the Lions' players pretty much demanded an offence-heavy brand after the Bulldogs win late last year. Leppa gave in to player demand to avoid another player exodus (another example of the tail wagging the dog).

I disagree with your assessment that Essendon play to limit the damage, in fact I think they play a similar style of game to us. What they do better is have a whole team defensive strategy that is miles better than ours, despite still being terrible. They have conceded significantly less points than us with what is a fairly average backline, yet are still 120 or so points worse off than the next worse team (Gold Coast).

 

[James North]

I disagree with your assessment that Essendon play to limit the damage, in fact I think they play a similar style of game to us. What they do better is have a whole team defensive strategy that is miles better than ours, despite still being terrible. They have conceded significantly less points than us with what is a fairly average backline, yet are still 120 or so points worse off than the next worse team (Gold Coast).

I saw your post earlier about the Dons' backline being pretty average ... I don't think the backline is our problem. Our problem is that our forwards and mids are turning the ball over and not running back hard enough or into the right spaces to prevent easy scores over the top. Not many backlines in the comp could stop most entries into our 50s that occur as a result of that lack of team defence.

If the Dons have let in less points it's much more likely to do with not turning the ball over and better defensive run from their 'non-defenders'.

I think just about everyone sucks and we need a lot of things to go right to turn it around.

 

[Eons]

Watching our team chase reminds me of how I chase after my 3 year old. I have to pretend I'm trying my hardest so she thinks she is really quick but I'm going at about quarter pace.

 

[Lions Lions]

Leppa 3.5% chance he stays and implements another year of offense orientated style with little to know defence on the plate too.

96.5% new coach comes in and at least tries to build a team defensive system.

 

[Bucking Beads]

It makes me sick that a Head Coach in the AFL changed his game plan to appease Players who weren't happy to play defense. Now look at us. FFS. Disgrace and a terrible reflection on Leppa and the Players who apparently demanded this.

 

[Gadzorks]

Players setting the game plan is probably a tad extreme. For the coaching staff it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. The club would be so conscious of avoiding another player exodus at all costs. Playing a brand that the players are known to dislike* while not delivering results or constantly getting hammered...

*It should never come to this. It's clear we have a self-entitled bunch of players who think they're God's gift to the world. Schwab et al. have some really interesting decisions ahead of them. Regardless of who's coach I don't think they'll be able to rectify the attitudinal problems amongst some of the senior core.

I think you are spot on in a way- the is a deep cultural problem that is going to take a long time to turn around.

 

[Ironmonger]

It seems very unlikely that player happiness is much of a concern when the coaching staff set the gameplan. As others have said, it would be a black mark against Leppitsch if he was pandering to the players on this, but he's never struck me as a panderer.

There did seem to be something of a change in approach after the losses to Port and Collingwood earlier in the year. There's certainly been less run and carry off half back since then, and we've seen new players get a go pretty consistently after fielding relatively settled sides in the first few rounds. I don't know if that was the players' influence, but I reckon there was something about the Collingwood loss in particular that changed Leppitsch's approach.

 

[SizeMatters]

The question is why are we so poor after a whole season? I recall Leppa saying he was pleased after the WCE game as we scored 100 points+ but that we will be working on our defensive side of things... I assume we have been working on it the whole year since we have pretty much been the worse side all season when it comes to scores against?

 

[notliondown]

Doesn't explain why we are conceding so many high scores though. In fact we have conceded 300 more points than Essendon, check out the respective backlines from last week:

Dea Hartley Mcdonald-Tip
Gleeson Francis Dempsey

vs.

Hammelman Merrett Cutler
Dawson Andrews Mayes
​

I mean, Essendon kept Adelaide - a far superior team to a significantly lower score at Adelaide oval than we did at the GABBA against Port. Let's be honest, their backling will look nothing like that next year either so it's not a personnel thing, the only really good player there is Francis and he is a first year player.

This isn't an isolated incident either. Every week we concede scores against average sides. That is not a youth thing, it is structural and has been happening since round one. Comes back to the coach.

Lets also remember that Worsfold has no long term plan for this team. This is a make shift, shoved together team that everyone expected to lose week after week. His only job this year was to try and limit the damage and pain. His entire "need" for this team was to be respectable.

If your sole intent week in week out was to "not lose badly" and that was the limit of expectation I'd say it'd be a relatively easy thing to achieve. Lyon and Roos played that style for years. Winning on the other hand isn't so easy... as Ross the Boss.

 

[notliondown]

This is all by memory but Leppa openly stated that he was approached by the players to implement a fast open style of game plan at the end of last season. After the win against the Bulldogs last year he believed they actually "demanded" it in the way they played. He said it's always the desire of young players to play a quick style and after the struggles of last year with a more defensive set up he was willing to accommodate it. He also said that he was always defensively minded and that was his default style so it took a lot to change. It's all on the record of an SEN before the game interview - the bulldogs game I think.

This was a time he was under pressure to change his style and be more open and consultative. Was he held to ransom... well that depends on your point of view. Given the struggles last year and the rumours of rifts, physical abuse and aggression you could probably argue the answer is yes.

So now as a coach you have a game plan which you almost felt compelled to create and are forced to defend. Not a good situation. I have very little doubt that should he be coach next year our game plan will be different. And he'll be in a position to say I told you so.

I really think some here underestimate the power of the playing group. As a club we've been held to ransom for years. Player power at least contributed to the removal of the last coach. Leppas first job was to try and stop an exodus. It's hung over his head ever since. It's used by the media and managers as a blunt instrument. He's damned if he's too tough or condemned for being weak.

And to be honest I'm not sure anyone else will be able to change that.

 

[lioninthesand]

This is all by memory but Leppa openly stated that he was approached by the players to implement a fast open style of game plan at the end of last season. After the win against the Bulldogs last year he believed they actually "demanded" it in the way they played. He said it's always the desire of young players to play a quick style and after the struggles of last year with a more defensive set up he was willing to accommodate it. He also said that he was always defensively minded and that was his default style so it took a lot to change. It's all on the record of an SEN before the game interview - the bulldogs game I think.

This was a time he was under pressure to change his style and be more open and consultative. Was he held to ransom... well that depends on your point of view. Given the struggles last year and the rumours of rifts, physical abuse and aggression you could probably argue the answer is yes.

So now as a coach you have a game plan which you almost felt compelled to create and are forced to defend. Not a good situation. I have very little doubt that should he be coach next year our game plan will be different. And he'll be in a position to say I told you so.

I really think some here underestimate the power of the playing group. As a club we've been held to ransom for years. Player power at least contributed to the removal of the last coach. Leppas first job was to try and stop an exodus. It's hung over his head ever since. It's used by the media and managers as a blunt instrument. He's damned if he's too tough and condemned for being weak.

And to be honest I'm not sure anyone else will be able to change that.

This is all true. But I am not personally keen on this slowly becoming the new narrative that is developing. "Leppa had a great plan but the players stuffed it all up by changing it on him, poor bugger was hung out to dry'. It is a very small part of a huge problem, for example.. he implemented this incredibly shonky 'high press' which we are not equipped in the slightest to execute, that is primarily why we are scored against so easily.

We still play cautious a lot of the time going forward, we are described as playing a 'chip it backwards' style of play by most commentators, we are hardly taking it down the highway like Geelong in 2009.

We don't know how to defend, not sure who's fault that is but almost every other team, including Essendon, isn't having nearly as tougher time as us.

 

[Bucking Beads]

This is all true. But I am not personally keen on this slowly becoming the new narrative that is developing. "Leppa had a great plan but the players stuffed it all up by changing it on him, poor bugger was hung out to dry'. It is a very small part of a huge problem, for example.. he implemented this incredibly shonky 'high press' which we are not equipped in the slightest to execute, that is primarily why we are scored against so easily.

We still play cautious a lot of the time going forward, we are described as playing a 'chip it backwards' style of play by most commentators, we are hardly taking it down the highway like Geelong in 2009.

We don't know how to defend, not sure who's fault that is but almost every other team, including Essendon, isn't having nearly as tougher time as us.

Not one person has said Leppa had a great plan.

 

[lioninthesand]

Not one person has said Leppa had a great plan.

OK... that's confusing the hell out of me then, aren't we supposed to be sticking to this / backing in this plan we are half way through?

Also, that quoted part was obviously an extreme version of the sort of sentiment I was highlighting, though suggesting others 'believe in his plan' isn't the part I thought would draw a re-buttle. LOL!

 

[Bucking Beads]

OK... that's confusing the hell out of me then, aren't we supposed to be sticking to this / backing in this plan we are half way through?

Also, that quoted part was obviously an extreme version of the sort of sentiment I was highlighting, though suggesting others 'believe in his plan' isn't the part I thought would draw a re-buttle. LOL!

Which plan are you even taking about. Leppa has a game plan and the club has a plan for the list which has included playing the youth.

 

[notliondown]

This is all true. But I am not personally keen on this slowly becoming the new narrative that is developing. "Leppa had a great plan but the players stuffed it all up by changing it on him, poor bugger was hung out to dry'. It is a very small part of a huge problem, for example.. he implemented this incredibly shonky 'high press' which we are not equipped in the slightest to execute, that is primarily why we are scored against so easily.

We still play cautious a lot of the time going forward, we are described as playing a 'chip it backwards' style of play by most commentators, we are hardly taking it down the highway like Geelong in 2009.

We don't know how to defend, not sure who's fault that is but almost every other team, including Essendon, isn't having nearly as tougher time as us.

I'm flattered you feel compelled to quote and reply to every post I write on this topic lioninthesand - I'm beginning to think you have a little man crush...

But where exactly did I or anyone else say that Leppa had a great game plan? You fail to see that most of the support for Leppa is based on a chance to fulfill potential, finish a job and in the interests of club and player stability. I really don't recall anyone suggesting he's some God's gift to coaching.

I actually clearly stated that last year the plan/team struggled. And I've also posted about Essendon and how their situation is utterly opposed to ours. Maybe you need to slow down on the insatiable urge to reply and let the context sink in a little first.

You don't like him, you don't want to see him coach next year. I get it.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Looks like Mark Williams is going to be let go by Richmond. I'm not suggesting him as Head Coach but he could be the experienced head our coaching team is lacking..

 

[lioninthesand]

I'm flattered you feel compelled to quote and reply to every post I write on this topic lioninthesand - I'm beginning to think you have a little man crush...

But where exactly did I or anyone else say that Leppa had a great game plan? You fail to see that most of the support for Leppa is based on a chance to fulfill potential, finish a job and in the interests of club and player stability. I really don't recall anyone suggesting he's some God's gift to coaching.

I actually clearly stated that last year the plan/team struggled. And I've also posted about Essendon and how their situation is utterly opposed to ours. Maybe you need to slow down on the insatiable urge to reply and let the context sink in a little first.

You don't like him, you don't want to see him coach next year. I get it.

You're kidding right? coming from a poster like yourself whom offers a re-buttle / excuse for almost everything mentioned about Leppa and rolls out the same replies to every conversation over and over and over? I think if we went back you would have responded to my point of view, more than I have have yours - but isn't that what forums are for - not sure why this post tipped you over the edge? Also.. you have misrepresented my view or have been ignoring my view for several weeks now, I infact want him to coach on next year and have stated it time and time again over the last couple of months. what my post is doing here, is attempting to moderate the recent attempts to pin things (sometimes almost entirely) on the playing group.. people have tried it several times in defence of him I am personally opposed to that narrative (whilst admitting they have to take some blame), please highlight what part of my reasonably measured post you found so upsetting that you had to get so worked up in response?

 

[scoman]

Looks like Mark Williams is going to be let go by Richmond. I'm not suggesting him as Head Coach but he could be the experienced head our coaching team is lacking..

Seems to bounce around a bit doesnt he? Why are teams letting him go?

 

[lioninthesand]

Looks like Mark Williams is going to be let go by Richmond. I'm not suggesting him as Head Coach but he could be the experienced head our coaching team is lacking..

He would be a great option for a senior assistant to Leppa IMO, great at motivating and very endearing to young players - plus carries enormous weight (not literally) This is the sort of candidate I would want us to employ to help Leppa next year. another bonus is he won't have senior coaching ambition. Only issue is - that richmond influence runs pretty deep if he is there also.

 

[James North]

He would be a great option for a senior assistant to Leppa IMO, great at motivating and very endearing to young players - plus carries enormous weight (not literally) This is the sort of candidate I would want us to employ to help Leppa next year. another bonus is he won't have senior coaching ambition. Only issue is - that richmond influence runs pretty deep if he is there also.

If he is leaving, I'd like to know why first...

 

[lioninthesand]

If he is leaving, I'd like to know why first...

Yeah of coarse, hoping it's just a freshening of personal type scenario.

 

[POBT]

Seems to bounce around a bit doesnt he? Why are teams letting him go?

Not really. Was at Port as head coach for a really long time. Couple of years at GWS and then at Richmond for a fair while.

 

[Bucking Beads]

If he is leaving, I'd like to know why first...

Off contract I believe which makes it easy to let him go if you're having a full clean out of coaching staff like Richmond are likely to do.