Analysis Is Leppa the Right Man for the Job?

[LionKing]

Interesting read about Alistair Clarkson's coaching career - definitely an innovative and creative coach with some of the structures and systems he introduced and changed at the hawks. Rebuilt the hawks with some astute decision making and some good fortune. Now looking to rejuvenate his aging list over the next couple of years.

Clarkson served as a runner with the Melbourne Football Club in 1998 and was an assistant coach under Tim Watson at St Kilda in 1999, before taking over as head coach at Werribee in the VFL in 2000. He moved to Central District in South Australia, where he was premiership coach in his debut year 2001. In 2002, Clarkson guided Central District to the SANFL minor premiership and guided them to their second successive SANFL Grand Final. However, they ended up losing to Sturt. In 2003 he became the midfield coach at Port Adelaide and was part of their coaching team in the premiership season of 2004

Clarkson was appointed to his first senior AFL coaching role for the 2005 season, when the Hawks appointed him to lead their rebuilding phase. He was prepared to delist older players and introduce a youth policy. Club veterans Rayden Tallis, Mark Graham, Kris Barlow, Luke McCabe and Lance Picioane left the club and Nathan Thompson was traded to North Melbourne. Hawthorn had five wins in Clarkson's debut season. Another round of culling saw the delisting of Angelo Lekkas and Nick Holland and the trade of Jonathan Hay and Nathan Lonie. Clarkson brought to the club delisted players Brent Guerra and Stephen Gilham whom he knew from his time at Port Adelaide. In 2006 the side improved as Clarkson showed innovation by restructuring the forwards with a system that became known as "Buddy's box". The team won its last four games in a row to finish in 11th spot on the ladder. The Hawks continued to improve in 2007, winning 13 games and finishing fifth on the premiership table. This took them into the finals, where they defeated Adelaide in an elimination final, before being eliminated in a semi-final against North Melbourne.

Clarkson went against his own policy on draft day 2007 when, in addition to youngster Cyril Rioli, he recruited the recently retired Stuart Dew, that of whom he also knew from his time at Port Adelaide. He also introduced a new style of play that became known as the "Clarkson cluster". Early dominance in the 2008 season led Hawthorn to announce that Clarkson had signed a contract until the end of 2011. In 2008, he took the Hawks to second place at the end of the minor round before leading the team to the premiership victory in the 2008 AFL Grand Final against Geelong, a team which had lost only one game during the year. In doing so, Clarkson became the first (and, as of 2011, only) person to be a premiership winning coach in both the AFL/VFL and the SANFL.

After the 2008 premiership, opposition teams worked hard at picking the "Clarkson cluster" apart. Dogged by injuries to key players, the Hawks slipped down the ladder to finish ninth in 2009. After a poor start to 2010, when the club lost six out of its first seven games, including an embarrassing 43-point loss to Essendon in Round 6 after which the entire club came under scrutiny,the team finally abandoned the cluster for a more precision-kicking style. Aided by recruiting established players to cover weaknesses, the club climbed its way back up the ladder. Shaun Burgoyne and Josh Gibson arrived in 2010, David Hale in 2011, Jack Gunston in 2012 and Brian Lake in 2013, which helped Clarkson to again lead the Hawks to a premiership win, this time over Fremantle in the 2013 AFL Grand Final.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Spent Saturday night in a corporate box immediately behind the Western goals, so it gave me plenty of opportunity to observe the interaction among our back 6 or whatever. The crowd being so small, for the second home game in a row you could readily overhear the on-field chatter.

After each goal against our lads would gather for some type of recap, generally under the "leadership" of either Red Rog or Ryan Lester. Ie, this occurred rather frequently.

Because, perhaps, of his relaxed running style Lester would not always meet the agreed meeting timetable, or would otherwise spend inordinate time recovering from his exertions with both hands on knees.

Anyway, it intrigued me to speculate just what these blokes could possibly be having their heads-up about, seeing goals against occurred rather often, and really, what could there have been to discuss anyway. Apart from, like- gee aren't these goals happening quite a bit, is there anything we could possibly do about it. Like tackle? Or put the body on the line [just joking Ryan]. Maybe a bit of an occasional wander forward to remind Bastinac, Rich, Hanley et al that they also have a responsibility to put in. Just so the pill doesn't arrive down here every 25 seconds.

Just speculating, as I say.

 

[Nunez]

Spent Saturday night in a corporate box immediately behind the Western goals, so it gave me plenty of opportunity to observe the interaction among our back 6 or whatever. The crowd being so small, for the second home game in a row you could readily overhear the on-field chatter.

After each goal against our lads would gather for some type of recap, generally under the "leadership" of either Red Rog or Ryan Lester. Ie, this occurred rather frequently.

Because, perhaps, of his relaxed running style Lester would not always meet the agreed meeting timetable, or would otherwise spend inordinate time recovering from his exertions with both hands on knees.

Anyway, it intrigued me to speculate just what these blokes could possibly be having their heads-up about, seeing goals against occurred rather often, and really, what could there have been to discuss anyway. Apart from, like- gee aren't these goals happening quite a bit, is there anything we could possibly do about it. Like tackle? Or put the body on the line [just joking Ryan]. Maybe a bit of an occasional wander forward to remind Bastinac, Rich, Hanley et al that they also have a responsibility to put in. Just so the pill doesn't arrive down here every 25 seconds.

Just speculating, as I say.

I've noticed that before too. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Spent Saturday night in a corporate box immediately behind the Western goals, so it gave me plenty of opportunity to observe the interaction among our back 6 or whatever. The crowd being so small, for the second home game in a row you could readily overhear the on-field chatter.

After each goal against our lads would gather for some type of recap, generally under the "leadership" of either Red Rog or Ryan Lester. Ie, this occurred rather frequently.

Because, perhaps, of his relaxed running style Lester would not always meet the agreed meeting timetable, or would otherwise spend inordinate time recovering from his exertions with both hands on knees.

Anyway, it intrigued me to speculate just what these blokes could possibly be having their heads-up about, seeing goals against occurred rather often, and really, what could there have been to discuss anyway. Apart from, like- gee aren't these goals happening quite a bit, is there anything we could possibly do about it. Like tackle? Or put the body on the line [just joking Ryan]. Maybe a bit of an occasional wander forward to remind Bastinac, Rich, Hanley et al that they also have a responsibility to put in. Just so the pill doesn't arrive down here every 25 seconds.

Just speculating, as I say.

Probably chatting about the w***ers in Corporate boxes.

 

[Skoob]

Probably chatting about the ******s in Corporate boxes.

Hey, I was probably sitting in front of Tassie. Just a poorby visitor though.

 

[Slitherin9]

i admire your positivity. deep down i hope you are right.

the overall form of our experienced players is the major concern for me followed by the manner of our defeats ie. we seem to roll over way to easily and i find it very hard to see any sort of game plan or structure. last 6 games at home- average points against 145. were the suns/giants that bad in their first few years?

I'm actually feeling incredibly negative about our team at the moment, but am a naturally positive dude.

This is the worst we've ever been in my time, and I signed up when we were the bad news bears.

Having said that, Leppitsch has clearly fixed a massive problem. All our gun kids have re-signed.

He's deliberately taken us to the bottom. But he has board approval for this (although I think they were probably hoping for 5-6 wins, not 2).

He has a long-term plan. Which has one key component - time. If people can't buy into that and would prefer to snipe from the sidelines about short-term problems then fine. But don't expect me to listen. I'd prefer to believe in our great club.

 

[jackess]

I'm actually feeling incredibly negative about our team at the moment, but am a naturally positive dude.

This is the worst we've ever been in my time, and I signed up when we were the bad news bears.

Having said that, Leppitsch has clearly fixed a massive problem. All our gun kids have re-signed.

He's deliberately taken us to the bottom. But he has board approval for this (although I think they were probably hoping for 5-6 wins, not 2).

He has a long-term plan. Which has one key component - time. If people can't buy into that and would prefer to snipe from the sidelines about short-term problems then fine. But don't expect me to listen. I'd prefer to believe in our great club.

Our gun kids haven't all re-signed. We have a rising star winner and a 2 time leading goal kicker still unsigned. Also Dizzy who's arguably the best of the three.

 

[Lace Out]

Wooden spoon favs for 2017 makes it hard for Leppa..need something special to happen.He needs 8 wins,3 agin top sides

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Wooden spoon favs for 2017 makes it hard for Leppa..need something special to happen.He needs 8 wins,3 agin top sides

Wow Freo $34, Carlton $80 and we're $501 Way off the pace and it will be very noticeable with improvements to Freo and Essendon

 

[Ironmonger]

Our gun kids haven't all re-signed. We have a rising star winner and a 2 time leading goal kicker still unsigned. Also Dizzy who's arguably the best of the three.

Plus Aish is gone and I'm sure we'd like to have extended Schache's contract by now.

Under Leppitsch, player retention has not been good. It's not as bad as 2013, but being slightly better than the worst year any club has ever had for player retention (apart from Fitzroy maybe) is not 'fixing' the problem.

 

[josephs_79]

Our gun kids haven't all re-signed. We have a rising star winner and a 2 time leading goal kicker still unsigned. Also Dizzy who's arguably the best of the three.

Ones asking way way overs considering all he does is run in circles flapping his arms trying to tackle like a chicken.

The other has been in and out of the side (and has been our leading goal kicker because we haven't had anyone else) and at the moment is really only starting to hit form after an injury so is prolly holding out to kick his stocks up for more money.

Who else hasn't re-signed yet that is worth noting? As far as I can tell most are locked in for 1 or 2 more years or longer and the rest have re-signed this year.

 

[josephs_79]

Plus Aish is gone and I'm sure we'd like to have extended Schache's contract by now.

Under Leppitsch, player retention has not been good. It's not as bad as 2013, but being slightly better than the worst year any club has ever had for player retention (apart from Fitzroy maybe) is not 'fixing' the problem.

Aish was long gone be it to Adelaide or eventually to Collingwood. TBH I wasn't a fan and thought he was a touch over rated by a lot of people due to the lack of stocks we had.

Brisbane prolly still want Schache to sign a long term deal and he is holding out to either increase his stocks as well wait until the 2 years is up and sign a long term then with big $$

 

[Slax]

Wooden spoon favs for 2017 makes it hard for Leppa..need something special to happen.He needs 8 wins,3 agin top sides

If Leppa is our coach of course we will be spoon favourites, he's the worst coach in the league by some margin, whose going to finish below us?

 

[Lace Out]

If Leppa is our coach of course we will be spoon favourites, he's the worst coach in the league by some margin, whose going to finish below us?

Not beyond the realms he's coaching the worst team.Either way,if we turn at 2-9 that might spell curtains.

 

[M Malice]

Ones asking way way overs considering all he does is run in circles flapping his arms trying to tackle like a chicken.

The other has been in and out of the side (and has been our leading goal kicker because we haven't had anyone else) and at the moment is really only starting to hit form after an injury so is prolly holding out to kick his stocks up for more money.

Who else hasn't re-signed yet that is worth noting? As far as I can tell most are locked in for 1 or 2 more years or longer and the rest have re-signed this year.

you are right IMO. the re signings of our young players has been vastly improved since the GH5 year. below is a link from dlanod s (thanks) thread re our players contract status.

of those listed to be OOC at the end of this year the only ones i would desperately want to keep are- reuben william and archie smith, and to a lesser degree darcy gardner, matthew hammellman and billy evans. reuben and archie are 100% certain to re sign. darcy may go elsewhere who knows? mat and billy would have no currency to get to another club so if the club wants them they will be here in 2017.

Thanks to trikster for creating the initial list. Moved it here for mods to keep track and update it more easily.

Updated as of 23/06/2016 by dlanod.


By Year

2016:
Jackson Paine (R)
Josh Green
Trent West
Daniel Merrett
Justin Clarke (retired)
Darcy Gardiner
Lewis Taylor
Josh Watts
Cian Hanley (R)
Josh McGuinness
Matthew Hammelmann (R)
Billy Evans (R)
Hugh Beasley (R)
Reuben William (R)
Archie Smith (R)

 

[Nunez]

Plus Aish is gone and I'm sure we'd like to have extended Schache's contract by now.

Under Leppitsch, player retention has not been good. It's not as bad as 2013, but being slightly better than the worst year any club has ever had for player retention (apart from Fitzroy maybe) is not 'fixing' the problem.

While there are definite problems with Leppa and the club in general, it has to be said that calling him out on player retention is the biggest clutching of straws ever. We have had huge retention issues over the past few years. Leppa and the Lamberts have drastically improved that within the club.

Zorko was looking at his options outside the club, but resigned long term. Rich, a free agent, resigned when he would have no doubt had options to play in a finals bound team. Sam Mayes was out the door, yet has now resigned. Now we're left with 3 players we'd want to sign (well, two as I am sure Green will be trade currency this year) in Green, Taylor and Gardiner. All sources say Gardiner will definitely re-sign, Taylor, while a little worrisome, is not playing football that warrants the money he wants, and will no doubt find we're offering him the most of any club and will re-sign. Green I'd be betting will be used as trade currency.

Case in point, saying 'player retention as not been good' is a load of shit.

 

[Ironmonger]

While there are definite problems with Leppa and the club in general, it has to be said that calling him out on player retention is the biggest clutching of straws ever. We have had huge retention issues over the past few years. Leppa and the Lamberts have drastically improved that within the club.

Zorko was looking at his options outside the club, but resigned long term. Rich, a free agent, resigned when he would have no doubt had options to play in a finals bound team. Sam Mayes was out the door, yet has now resigned. Now we're left with 3 players we'd want to sign (well, two as I am sure Green will be trade currency this year) in Green, Taylor and Gardiner. All sources say Gardiner will definitely re-sign, Taylor, while a little worrisome, is not playing football that warrants the money he wants, and will no doubt find we're offering him the most of any club and will re-sign. Green I'd be betting will be used as trade currency.

Case in point, saying 'player retention as not been good' is a load of shit.

That's just pointlessly nasty, and less importantly it's totally wrong.

We have had enormous list turnover under Leppitsch, including many players requesting trades, and the signs are that it will continue. No matter how much you call it a 'load of shit', it remains a serious issue. Clubs do not typically have several players leave each year, and it's not enough to re-sign some players; players leaving that we want to keep needs to become a rare exception.

Bear in mind the discussion is about whether Leppitsch has fixed a massive problem, not whether he's made the problem worse. No one is arguing he's made it worse, just that nothing has been solved.

 

[Roylion]

Under Leppitsch, player retention has not been good.

Who's left under Lepptitsch, that the club wanted to retain?

2014: (Joel Patful was traded but he was contracted and the club accommodated a wish to be traded to a Sydney club)
2015: Aish, Redden, (Leuenberger was a restricted free agent and the club was happy to let go, by not matching what Essendon offered)

 

[Ironmonger]

Who's left under Lepptitsch, that the club wanted to retain?

2014: (Joel Patful was traded but he was contracted and the club accommodated a wish to be traded to a Sydney club)
2015: Aish, Redden, (Leuenberger was a restricted free agent and the club was happy to let go, by not matching what Essendon offered)

And Crisp.

If we're just going to argue that we didn't really want to keep any of the players that have left, then we can dismiss any departing player.

And it certainly seems as though there are more players still to go.

But if the players really are happy, united, and keen to stick around, then they're doing an excellent job of hiding it.

 

[Roylion]

And Crisp.

As far as I'm aware, Crisp was happy to stay and only went because he agreed to be part of the Beams trade. At the time, given that he was a fringe player, he was seen as dispensable. The ol' "steak knives".

If we're just going to argue that we didn't really want to keep any of the players that have left, then we can dismiss any departing player.

Retaining players is about holding onto players you want to keep around as part of your list. I'd argue that in the time Leppitsch has been in charge that's effectively come down to two players. Aish and Redden. Maybe Patfull, although the club let him go because of his personal circumstances.

And it certainly seems as though there are more players still to go.

Such as? Players still out of contract at end of this season are Josh Green, Trent West, Daniel Merrett, Darcy Gardiner, Lewis Taylor, Josh Watts and Josh McGuinness.

But if the players really are happy, united, and keen to stick around, then they're doing an excellent job of hiding it.

Who's said they're not? There have been 19 re-signings since the end of last season. I've got no doubt the players are dissatisfied with the lack of wins. Who isn't.

 

[POBT]

Losing a top 10 pick after only 2 years meets the definition of poor retention for me. The fact that it may or may not hurt us long term is irrelevant in terms of retention.

I mean, if we re-sign every player but Schache decides to leave next year, I don't think we'd be celebrating our retention success.

 

[Hollow Knight]

As far as I'm aware, Crisp was happy to stay and only went because he agreed to be part of the Beams trade. At the time, given that he was a fringe player, he was seen as dispensable. The ol' "steak knives".



Retaining players is about holding onto players you want to keep around as part of your list. I'd argue that in the time Leppitsch has been in charge that's effectively come down to two players. Aish and Redden. Maybe Patfull, although the club let him go because of his personal circumstances.



Such as? Players still out of contract at end of this season are Josh Green, Trent West, Daniel Merrett, Darcy Gardiner, Lewis Taylor, Josh Watts and Josh McGuinness.



Who's said they're not? There have been 19 re-signings since the end of last season. I've got no doubt the players are dissatisfied with the lack of wins. Who isn't.

Crisp was Essendon bound until the Pies opportunity presented itself.

 

[Nunez]

That's just pointlessly nasty, and less importantly it's totally wrong.

We have had enormous list turnover under Leppitsch, including many players requesting trades, and the signs are that it will continue. No matter how much you call it a 'load of shit', it remains a serious issue. Clubs do not typically have several players leave each year, and it's not enough to re-sign some players; players leaving that we want to keep needs to become a rare exception.

Bear in mind the discussion is about whether Leppitsch has fixed a massive problem, not whether he's made the problem worse. No one is arguing he's made it worse, just that nothing has been solved.

Player retention is a serious issue for 18 clubs, lets not forget that. Obviously the power clubs in Vic don't have to worry about it as much as others, but never-the-less, it is something at the top of everyone's priority list.

Onto your last sentence, whether or not Leppa has fixed a massive problem, let's once again break down Pre-Leppa and post-Leppa.

Pre-Leppa, we lost the GH5, we had senior players wanting to leave, we had young players afraid to commit, we had a board in shambles. We were a sinking ship, and had to literally hit reset due to the shape of our list and the people who'd left.

Who's left under Lepptitsch, that the club wanted to retain?

2014: (Joel Patful was traded but he was contracted and the club accommodated a wish to be traded to a Sydney club)
2015: Aish, Redden, (Leuenberger was a restricted free agent and the club was happy to let go, by not matching what Essendon offered)

^ Roylion summed it up well. Patful was happy to stay, but requested to go if a trade were available - the club helped him get to Sydney
**** James Aish. Redden, the one player Leppa lost, but with that said the trade is clearly not a big deal as his form in WA is anything but spectacular.
Luenburger would have stayed if he was our #1 ruck. Swan even said that if they knew the compensation for Luey would have been better, they would have re-signed him.

Fast forward to 2016, we have resigned all but 3 players (the three who would re-sign depending on what $$$ we offer/if we want them). We even had a player in Sam Mayes who last year wanted to leave and called off contract talks, only to decide that he wants to be a long term player for us and re-signed.

Seriously mate, I called it a load of shit because for all the faults the club has that we can attribute to Leppa, player retention is HARDLY one....

 

[Nunez]

Losing a top 10 pick after only 2 years meets the definition of poor retention for me. The fact that it may or may not hurt us long term is irrelevant in terms of retention.

I mean, if we re-sign every player but Schache decides to leave next year, I don't think we'd be celebrating our retention success.

James Aish was a special case of moron if you ask me. If a year from now Schache hasn't re-signed then IMO the 'poor retention' card can be played. Until then, I think our retention in 2016 has been fantastic.

 

[POBT]

James Aish was a special case of moron if you ask me. If a year from now Schache hasn't re-signed then IMO the 'poor retention' card can be played. Until then, I think our retention in 2016 has been fantastic.

Happy to treat Aish as an aberration once we stitch up Schache. It is totally unfair on him and the club that there's pressure to extend his contract with still more than a season to run but that is modern footy.

FWIW, I don't think retention can ever be judged on one season but I'm not ready to give too much kudos to the club for this year with 2 highly regarded youngsters and a previously best 18 player unsigned. I suspect that we'd be a lot more anxious if Taylor and Green were playing their best footy.