Analysis Is Leppa the Right Man for the Job?

[lioninthesand]

With the new announcement on this $2.5m spending upgrade for our footy department, I think we can confidently assume that Leppa will be coaching us next year. Just can't see the the board not taking the opportunity to give him his last year, with the funding upgrade being the reason for hope.

I am keen to see what is done with money, does anyone know if the funding is available ongoing on is it only for 2017?

$2.5m would be enough for 4 0r 5 appointments would it not?

what sort of roles do people predict will be filled?

 

[a mayes ing]

Dont think he is the right man. Our structure is terrible and the team doesn't looked trained correctly. I dont think we are doing the right skills a\early on/ the basics and tht is a coaching issue. New coach and assistants

 

[AFLQLD]

I think a full time sports psych would be high up the list once the coaching list is sorted out. With so many young players and seemingly so much internal unrest, depending who you listen to, I think that a focus on good attitudes, behaviours and positive mental preparation is going to be important for us.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Lets also remember that Worsfold has no long term plan for this team. This is a make shift, shoved together team that everyone expected to lose week after week. His only job this year was to try and limit the damage and pain. His entire "need" for this team was to be respectable.

If your sole intent week in week out was to "not lose badly" and that was the limit of expectation I'd say it'd be a relatively easy thing to achieve. Lyon and Roos played that style for years. Winning on the other hand isn't so easy... as Ross the Boss.

Which of these are we doing exactly?

 

[lioninthesand]

Dont think he is the right man. Our structure is terrible and the team doesn't looked trained correctly. I dont think we are doing the right skills a\early on/ the basics and tht is a coaching issue. New coach and assistants

If I were to guess either way, I would say you are right - can't see him succeeding as coach of the Brisbane Lions now or in 4 years time. Too much damage has been done, we have regressed too badly for too long. However - I am all for giving him one more year with proper spending behind him, that was the plan and i am happy to give him one last year to show some improvement.

 

[notliondown]

You're kidding right? coming from a poster like yourself whom offers a re-buttle / excuse for almost everything mentioned about Leppa and rolls out the same replies to every conversation over and over and over? I think if we went back you would have responded to my point of view, more than I have have yours - but isn't that what forums are for - not sure why this post tipped you over the edge? Also.. you have misrepresented my view or have been ignoring my view for several weeks now, I infact want him to coach on next year and have stated it time and time again over the last couple of months. what my post is doing here, is attempting to moderate the recent attempts to pin things (sometimes almost entirely) on the playing group.. people have tried it several times in defence of him I am personally opposed to that narrative (whilst admitting they have to take some blame), please highlight what part of my reasonably measured post you found so upsetting that you had to get so worked up in response?

Well maybe its me that has a little man crush... Trust me but... I'm not worked up. You and the mods will know when that happens.

Yes, I've noticed you "moderate" your views. But then again they were pretty extreme in the beginning so that's not hard. And yes I've noticed that you even now say you want him to coach - although your rebuttal to posts supporting him suggests otherwise. I'm not sure why the change of heart... I don't think you yourself actually believe your new position - it's like you want a foot in each camp just in case.

I'm not sure I've misrepresented your views but if you say so. I've said repeatedly and am pretty sick of doing it, that I don't know if Leppa can coach. Nor that he has my unequivocal support. Nor that he is God. You've taken a post about an interview where he admits to changes requested by the playing group and my comments about what I believe to be a higher than normal amount of influence exerted by them as somehow blaming the group for his/our position?

I don't believe and never have, that there are any parties blameless for our current situation. I believe there are issues with Leppa's coaching. I believe there are issues with a severely underfunded and resourced coaching department. I believe we've been unable to field our best team for long enough to see how good they actually are. I believe there are issues with a playing group that seems to contain too many members that are motivated by their own reasons than the club as whole. None of this is new. I've said it repeatedly.

Just because one part of this never ending debate (and yes that is what forums are for) wanders from facilities to injuries to player power or whatever the next nuance is, doesn't mean that suddenly that's the sole reason for Leppa's "failings".

Personally I could give a shit if Leppa is the coach next year. My number 1 criteria is the long term success of my club. And right now, as I have been all along (although I have wavered to be honest), I believe that we need stability and time more than anything else to get a real read on where we are at. We've endured huge list turnover and change. More I believe would be detrimental.

And rightly or wrongly, for now at least, that means sticking with Leppa. By all means we can do better, as coach/s, players and club. But I'd like a chance to see if we can jag some luck and continuity before we repeat the past to end up here again in 3 years. And if it comes down to it I think any coach would find themselves in a similar position in these same circumstances.

That my friend is and has always been the basis for my posts in this thread.

 

[notliondown]

Which of these are we doing exactly?

I'd like to say winning... but well... you know...

 

[lions27]

I wonder who Bomber will bring with him? Pretty excited for the off season.

 

[lioninthesand]

Well maybe its me that has a little man crush... Trust me but... I'm not worked up. You and the mods will know when that happens.

Yes, I've noticed you "moderate" your views. But then again they were pretty extreme in the beginning so that's not hard. And yes I've noticed that you even now say you want him to coach - although your rebuttal to posts supporting him suggests otherwise. I'm not sure why the change of heart... I don't think you yourself actually believe your new position - it's like you want a foot in each camp just in case.

I'm not sure I've misrepresented your views but if you say so. I've said repeatedly and am pretty sick of doing it, that I don't know if Leppa can coach. Nor that he has my unequivocal support. Nor that he is God. You've taken a post about an interview where he admits to changes requested by the playing group and my comments about what I believe to be a higher than normal amount of influence exerted by them as somehow blaming the group for his/our position?

I don't believe and never have, that there are any parties blameless for our current situation. I believe there are issues with Leppa's coaching. I believe there are issues with a severely underfunded and resourced coaching department. I believe we've been unable to field our best team for long enough to see how good they actually are. I believe there are issues with a playing group that seems to contain too many members that are motivated by their own reasons than the club as whole. None of this is new. I've said it repeatedly.

Just because one part of this never ending debate (and yes that is what forums are for) wanders from facilities to injuries to player power or whatever the next nuance is, doesn't mean that suddenly that's the sole reason for Leppa's "failings".

Personally I could give a shit if Leppa is the coach next year. My number 1 criteria is the long term success of my club. And right now, as I have been all along (although I have wavered to be honest), I believe that we need stability and time more than anything else to get a real read on where we are at. We've endured huge list turnover and change. More I believe would be detrimental.

And rightly or wrongly, for now at least, that means sticking with Leppa. By all means we can do better, as coach/s, players and club. But I'd like a chance to see if we can jag some luck and continuity before we repeat the past to end up here again in 3 years. And if it comes down to it I think any coach would find themselves in a similar position in these same circumstances.

That my friend is and has always been the basis for my posts in this thread.

What you suggest is my position is actually also your position, this is like speaking to a mirror with the total opposite view, which is why I found your snarky post above to be highly hypercritical tbh. Your posts in no single way suggest anything other than support and defence for Leppa, with the occasional post suggesting 'you don't actually care' thrown in.. that is the most 'foot in each camp position' you can take IMO.

My positing is largely supportive, where I moderate (as do you constantly those with opposing views) is those wishing to try to casually remove almost all responsibility from him as coach, which I find you often try and do (to some extent or another) - you're entitled to that position, but i am entitled to rebut it, especially as it is largely an impossible position to take IMO - I never see you being critical of him, ever.

My sudden change of heart, is actually about balance or middle ground - it is saying, I don't have faith ATM (there is no reason for faith IMO beyond.. praying for a miracle), I wouldn't mind a change in coach - but lets give him his 4th year to see what happens. That is not really a foot in each camp because if he succeeds I haven''t actually 'backed' him to turn it around, and if he did suddenly rise to finals next year, I would never claim after my longish campaign against him, to have been 'correct' due to a small change in my position. My opinion is an easy one to take and it is set in stone, as it was last year.. I don't think he will succeed.. however, I am happy to get behind his 4th year as he is contracted to do so and I DESPERATELY want to be proven wrong.. I would happily be disregarded on here as 'they guy who got Leppa wrong' if it means we are winning games, I won;t be getting any prizes for getting it right - that's for sure.

I know your position all to well, so I won't respond to it it directly, though I re-read the post several times. I think, philospically my position is I believe the 'right' coach can come in and create change and quickly, you don't share that view and see the issues as long term, and basically unfixable. That's basically where all our disagreements stem from. I value coaching, modern footy shows coaching is king.

I don't see an issue with us being stuck in perpetual disagreement, as long as we don't abuse or take pot shots to the detriment of other posters, was surprised of all posters given your staunch position throughout this argument, you were the one to drop your lollies over me having a staunch position.

But oh well. i hope to keep butting heads for many moons to come. And... it is possible to support someone and also be critical of them, especially when they are failing horribly in their job.

 

[alscotoz2]

....yes, and I couldn't leave my child laying in a cemetery either. Weird as that may seem, I would feel I was deserting them, leaving them buried in one state while we set up a new life in another. I would feel we were leaving him behind.

No, couldn't do it..

Interesting. Never thought of that...and hope i don't have to.

 

[dlanod]

Not really. Was at Port as head coach for a really long time. Couple of years at GWS and then at Richmond for a fair while.

Wasn't the most popular bloke at GWS, though moderately respected. Left when he was passed over for head coach in waiting as they figured Leon would be able to manage the younger list better, with some solid proof in the pudding this year.

 

[alscotoz2]

i don't think Mr.Smith follows us too closely, he says we were wooden spooners last season, did he forget round 23 v the dogs?

You're right, of course.




It takes the spotlight off all the great things we did last season.

 

[alscotoz2]

A lot of recent posts on here, whether accurate or not, can be summed up thus:

If true=look how well that went.

If not=look how well that went.

In ANY sport, if the players think they can run things then their team/organisation is doomed to failure/culture meltdown/failure.

I don't know what the situation is.

 

[Dylan12]

Wasn't the most popular bloke at GWS, though moderately respected. Left when he was passed over for head coach in waiting as they figured Leon would be able to manage the younger list better, with some solid proof in the pudding this year.

I see a lot of similarities between Chris Scott inheriting a ready made list to the one Leon Cameron inherited. In short, to say either is a great coach, not saying you did, is a reach given Neeld or Leppitsch would have struggled in not succeeding if they had either list at their disposal.

 

[wantok]

Watching our team chase reminds me of how I chase after my 3 year old. I have to pretend I'm trying my hardest so she thinks she is really quick but I'm going at about quarter pace.

Are you Ryan Lester?

 

[luthor]

I see a lot of similarities between Chris Scott inheriting a ready made list to the one Leon Cameron inherited. In short, to say either is a great coach, not saying you did, is a reach given Neeld or Leppitsch would have struggled in not succeeding if they had either list at their disposal.

Dennis Pagan was a genius coaching North Melbourne in the mid to late 90's. "Pagan's Paddock" and all that ................rah rah rah!!!

The same guy looked like a chump when coaching Carlton in the early to mid noughties.

Now he's a Real Estate agent

 

[dlanod]

I see a lot of similarities between Chris Scott inheriting a ready made list to the one Leon Cameron inherited. In short, to say either is a great coach, not saying you did, is a reach given Neeld or Leppitsch would have struggled in not succeeding if they had either list at their disposal.

A bit of a sidetrack from Mark Williams, but it's an interesting point. IMO a bad coach can cause a playing list to underperform (or result in players leaving, for that matter), regardless of how good the players are. I agree, with Scott and Cameron we don't know that they're great coaches because of the circumstances they fell into, but it's reasonable to assume they're at least average or above.

If a team is bad and has been bad for some time, it's hard to separate whether it's the coach or the playing list or both but you can assume neither are great. On the converse, when the team is good you can assume neither is bad IMO.

 

[jackess]

A bit of a sidetrack from Mark Williams, but it's an interesting point. IMO a bad coach can cause a playing list to underperform (or result in players leaving, for that matter), regardless of how good the players are. I agree, with Scott and Cameron we don't know that they're great coaches because of the circumstances they fell into, but it's reasonable to assume they're at least average or above.

If a team is bad and has been bad for some time, it's hard to separate whether it's the coach or the playing list or both but you can assume neither are great. On the converse, when the team is good you can assume neither is bad IMO.

What about what Buckley did to Collingwood or Beveridge at the Bulldogs?

 

[dlanod]

What about what Buckley did to Collingwood or Beveridge at the Bulldogs?

What about them? Collingwood had been good for years before Buckley took over. Bulldogs had been bad for four years before Beveridge. In both cases we have the benefit of hindsight.

 

[notliondown]

It's also interesting to look at Port with Hinkley and Lyon with Freo.

Hinkley achieved that new coach blip in a spectacular fashion as a lot of new coaches do... but are they sustainable? I remember hearing how good a coach he was by many supporters and media types, only in 2 short years to have them turn pretty savagely on him.

Lyon will be interesting. Breaking his defensive mold was obviously difficult for him and his game plan was a player killer. Now he's facing a rebuild he didn't plan for and some appear to be questioning whether hes the man for the job.

I remember Matthews last years with us. He'd gone from a superhero to a seemingly disinterested place holder who really looked lost. I think by his own admission he really didn't understand the best way forward.

It seems different phases of the cycle - because lets face it that's exactly what footy is - suit different coaches. I'm not sure finding the right one is as easy as some suggest.

 

[royboys4eva]

To be fair to Hinkley he just coached a side who beat us by 90 odd points with their main focal point up forward being John Butcher and their key defenders being kids in Austin and Clurey. They also have Trengove playing as a makeshift ruck and he is doing a great job for them. Hinkley will find it hard to win a premiership with this current list but it's fair to say he has done a reasonable job all things considered.

 

[winged1]

It's also interesting to look at Port with Hinkley and Lyon with Freo.

Hinkley achieved that new coach blip in a spectacular fashion as a lot of new coaches do... but are they sustainable? I remember hearing how good a coach he was by many supporters and media types, only in 2 short years to have them turn pretty savagely on him.

Lyon will be interesting. Breaking his defensive mold was obviously difficult for him and his game plan was a player killer. Now he's facing a rebuild he didn't plan for and some appear to be questioning whether hes the man for the job.

I remember Matthews last years with us. He'd gone from a superhero to a seemingly disinterested place holder who really looked lost. I think by his own admission he really didn't understand the best way forward.

It seems different phases of the cycle - because lets face it that's exactly what footy is - suit different coaches. I'm not sure finding the right one is as easy as some suggest.

I dont know if Lyon wouldnt have been expecting a rebuild considering the age profile of the side. He only wouldnt of been expecting it if he didnt expect to be re-signed.

 

[notliondown]

I dont know if Lyon wouldnt have been expecting a rebuild considering the age profile of the side. He only wouldnt of been expecting it if he didnt expect to be re-signed.

True - that was probably worded badly on my part. I should have added so soon. I think Freo would have expected to be able to play at the upper echelon of the comp for longer than they did before falling so spectacularly.

 

[winged1]

True - that was probably worded badly I my part. I should have added so soon. I think Freo would have expected to be able to play at the upper echelon of the comp for longer than they did before falling so spectacularly.

Considering so many picked them to be final 4 this year, internally they would of thought they could win it. But huge list turnover this year coming up.

 

[notliondown]

To be fair to Hinkley he just coached a side who beat us by 90 odd points with their main focal point up forward being John Butcher and their key defenders being kids in Austin and Clurey. They also have Trengove playing as a makeshift ruck and he is doing a great job for them. Hinkley will find it hard to win a premiership with this current list but it's fair to say he has done a reasonable job all things considered.

Yeah but to be fair 14 other clubs have beaten us too... Not saying for a moment he hasn't done a bad job, but that's probably not a good marker.

But that sort of feeds into our discussion doesn't it. Is that an acceptable result - a reasonable job? Especially after the hype.

I'm curious to see if Beveridge and Bolton do better after their elevation to hero status... watch this space.