Analysis Is Leppa the Right Man for the Job?

[Roylion]

i will be stunned if he stays, i don't think it is going to happen but it would be interesting reading if he did.

i wonder if Roylion will be stunned?

All I've done is put the case why he should be retained. The direction of Leppitsch's list management in building from the ground up, is one I have agreed with. Irrespective of what happens to Leppitsch, the decisions he has made in terms of playing youngsters and building through the draft have been the right ones and they are decisions which will eventually bear fruit. I personally think he should be given the chance in 2017 to oversee some of that improvement. However the outside noise, the hyperbole of the speculative football media looking to fill column inches and generate click bait as well as the impatience of much of the supporter base who want instant wins will likely see the board cave in and replace him.

 

[Sausages]

Well, I feel terrible for Leppa. Each to their own opinions on the coach, but he has essentially written off any chance he had of making a career out of senior coaching, as nobody will hire him now....he could do an apprenticeship as an assistant for the next 20 years and nobody would touch him. That must really hurt.

He did his best with what he got given and I think, even if you feel his best wasn't up to (your) standards, that we should remember him with at least some respect and admiration for putting in the hard yards when the odds were stacked heavily against him. The reality is he will be shown the door tomorrow.

That being said, I still don't think there's anyone else who really cuts the mustard - even if we get a Ratten et al, the fact that AFL dollars/encouragement will be decisive kinda leaves me feeling a bit deflated. As with players, if you don't want to be here, go somewhere else.

The whole scenario, some 6 years in the making, really doesn't seem to be ending any time soon.

 

[MacMum]

The club seems to be in such a mess, I fear it will take years to sort it out.

 

[Bucking Beads]

You're not saying that because you heard Derwayne say it, are you? This season doesn't even make the top ten.

That'll teach me for believing everything I hear. It is just so believable.

 

[Kappa]

Did anyone else notice Leppa admitting he would of sold Brisbane's future just to try and get himself another contract despite it not being best for the club?

 

[M Malice]

Did anyone else notice Leppa admitting he would of sold Brisbane's future just to try and get himself another contract despite it not being best for the club?

yep, that has been discussed, just need to read back over the last few pages.

what i got from it was a coach that can see the writing on the wall and he is extremely disappointed in the process that he can see unfolding. even though i have come around gradually to the view that it would be for the best if Leppa was replaced i and most of us lions supporters have great empathy for his situation. he is not the only reason why we are in the situation we are in now although he is a major component of it.

i hope you are not here to gloat over our and Leppas predicament.

 

[Milux]

I took from that bit that there was no win/loss factors in his contract back then. Now the goal posts have changed.

 

[geekOnaught]

I like the S.M.A.R.T. objectives system, I'm sure everyone's familiar with it but just in case:
S = Specific
M= Measurable
A = Achievable
R = Relevant
T = Timely

This is why I would prefer Win/Loss to be an important KPI, indeed perhaps the only KPI, rather than something fairly nebulous like "long-term development"

This is just begging for a Simpsons meme.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dalions]

loose by 1 or 101 you still loose and i know if you loose by one your more competitive but i dont think this list is mature enough to loose by 1 yet. I might be wrong but i doubt it.

Things are getting a little loose around here.

 

[Kappa]

yep, that has been discussed, just need to read back over the last few pages.

what i got from it was a coach that can see the writing on the wall and he is extremely disappointed in the process that he can see unfolding. even though i have come around gradually to the view that it would be for the best if Leppa was replaced i and most of us lions supporters have great empathy for his situation. he is not the only reason why we are in the situation we are in now although he is a major component of it.

i hope you are not here to gloat over our and Leppas predicament.

I'm not gloating over the clubs situation, just truly shocked a senior coach would casually admit he was happy to essentially screw the club over in the long term just to get himself another contract in the short term. How can his position still be tenable after that comment?

The comment shows he puts his own interests before the clubs. Not the person you guys need to lead your club.

 

[Milux]

I'm not gloating over the clubs situation, just truly shocked a senior coach would casually admit he was happy to essentially screw the club over in the long term just to get himself another contract in the short term. How can his position still be tenable after that comment?

The comment shows he puts his own interests before the clubs. Not the person you guys need to lead your club.

I understand your point. And most of us on here wish this was all over. But i feel your reading a touch too much into.

 

[Roylion]

I'm not gloating over the clubs situation, just truly shocked a senior coach would casually admit he was happy to essentially screw the club over in the long term just to get himself another contract in the short term.

What he actually said was that his job description, as determined by the board, was to take a long term view, not a short term view.

He would have taken a shorter-term focus at last year's trade and free agency periods if he had known the Lions' win-loss record in 2016 would be crucial to him retaining his position. In other words if the board had wanted to see some short term success.

"I guess as a coach all you're asking for is what are you being assessed on, that's it.

"If it was win-loss this year I would have traded probably the first pick. You would do other things, wouldn't you?

"We went hard for (free agent Matthew) Suckling and then dropped off at the end because he was a bit older for our plans, so you would probably pursue that and you would do other things that give you that chance of upping the win-loss ratio.

"We actually traded picks for future picks for this year [in the James Aish trade]. No doubt (we) wouldn't have done that either.

"It's just knowing where you stand and what your KPIs are, that's the most important thing."

He felt he had fulfilled his fundamental job requirement over the past three years of introducing young talent to the club and retaining those players.

IHow can his position still be tenable after that comment?

Really? So he can't win either way. Take a long term view as per board approval and suffer short term pain or satisfy supporters and a rabid media by taking a short term view and have some success. Isn't the latter what Voss tried?

The comment shows he puts his own interests before the clubs. Not the person you guys need to lead your club.

Rubbish. Naturally he'd like to keep his job, but there's no doubt Leppitsch has put the long term interests of the club ahead of his own position. However it's reasonable to hope he has the support of the board. They're the ones that hire and fire.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I understand your point. And most of us on here wish this was all over. But i feel your reading a touch too much into.

Way too much.

There is a context as always that people will strip away to suit themselves.

If anything, Leppa is in his current predicament by committing to a long term "what is best for the club" plan.

 

[Skoob]

I'm not gloating over the clubs situation, just truly shocked a senior coach would casually admit he was happy to essentially screw the club over in the long term just to get himself another contract in the short term. How can his position still be tenable after that comment?

The comment shows he puts his own interests before the clubs. Not the person you guys need to lead your club.

Probably not the week for Collingwood supporters to come in here to tell us our coach is a prick and failure.
Not many jobs in the world where you can do as you please. As Roylion pointed out, he is employed and directed by the club and approached his job with a long term view. What he said was IF he was directed to produce shorter term success, the approach would have been different.

Good or bad coach, not many here have or would question his character, loyalty and integrity. We certainly don't need to hear you question it. I am sure there is a thread on the main board where you can post as an uninformed asshat.

 

[POBT]

I like the S.M.A.R.T. objectives system, I'm sure everyone's familiar with it but just in case:
S = Specific
M= Measurable
A = Achievable
R = Relevant
T = Timely

This is why I would prefer Win/Loss to be an important KPI, indeed perhaps the only KPI, rather than something fairly nebulous like "long-term development"

While I don't believe it is the only measure, Leppa surely can't believe that is was not a kpi at all.

I think you start with win/loss. You then layer context on it. But the win record can't be completely discarded. It always has to remain a measure that's in play when assessing a football team.

And someone mentioned "competitiveness". IMO, it is pretty rare for "competetitive" sides to go through a season with 2 or 3 wins. The sides with that sort of record are generally uncompetitive in too many games. Generally speaking, if you compete every week, you'll pick up wins along the way. It is like "competitiveness" is the base of a pyramid and the bigger your base, the higher your peak (games won). I think it is clear that, from about round 6/7 onwards, we've been uncompetitive far too often.

If you wanted to, competitiveness is something you can measure. Pick a metric like "average loss margin" or "number of losses exceeding X goals". With a bit of research, it wouldn't be hard to work out a marker for what is "competitive" over the course of a season.

I think my fundamental issue is in being able to define Leppa's achievements in three years. Clearly, he's regenerated the list but literally anyone can get rid of a bunch of blokes and sign up a bunch of different blokes. You've got to do more than just change things. I'm not suggesting he hasn't developed players or the group but there's not a lot of evidence to support it. That's part of the problem for him and the club - how do you measure "development" and how do you explain to supporters that you are on the right track when W/L provides prima facie evidence that you are not?

He has got games into young players but he admits himself that circumstances have driven that a lot of the time - the unavailability of older players has meant he was forced down that path. It wasn't always part of a grand plan of "youth at all costs". That, of course, is a mitigating factor in the poor on field performance but suggesting that the club was prepared to trade on field competitiveness and wins for simply playing kids is a bit disingenuous IMO.

The culture is changing under Leppa but I think it is foolish to suggest it has changed completely. There were major problems last year and not all of those were legacy from the Voss era.

 

[Milux]

Way too much.

There is a context as always that people will strip away to suit themselves.

If anything, Leppa is in his current predicament by committing to a long term "what is best for the club" plan.

Sacrificed his coaching career for the club. That is unless they decide to stick with what they have been preaching.

 

[Milk Steak]

While I don't believe it is the only measure, Leppa surely can't believe that is was not a kpi at all.

I think you start with win/loss. You then layer context on it. But the win record can't be completely discarded. It always has to remain a measure that's in play when assessing a football team.

And someone mentioned "competitiveness". IMO, it is pretty rare for "competetitive" sides to go through a season with 2 or 3 wins. The sides with that sort of record are generally uncompetitive in too many games. Generally speaking, if you compete every week, you'll pick up wins along the way. It is like "competitiveness" is the base of a pyramid and the bigger your base, the higher your peak (games won). I think it is clear that, from about round 6/7 onwards, we've been uncompetitive far too often.

If you wanted to, competitiveness is something you can measure. Pick a metric like "average loss margin" or "number of losses exceeding X goals". With a bit of research, it wouldn't be hard to work out a marker for what is "competitive" over the course of a season.

I think my fundamental issue is in being able to define Leppa's achievements in three years. Clearly, he's regenerated the list but literally anyone can get rid of a bunch of blokes and sign up a bunch of different blokes. You've got to do more than just change things. I'm not suggesting he hasn't developed players or the group but there's not a lot of evidence to support it. That's part of the problem for him and the club - how do you measure "development" and how do you explain to supporters that you are on the right track when W/L provides prima facie evidence that you are not?

He has got games into young players but he admits himself that circumstances have driven that a lot of the time - the unavailability of older players has meant he was forced down that path. It wasn't always part of a grand plan of "youth at all costs". That, of course, is a mitigating factor in the poor on field performance but suggesting that the club was prepared to trade on field competitiveness and wins for simply playing kids is a bit disingenuous IMO.

The culture is changing under Leppa but I think it is foolish to suggest it has changed completely. There were major problems last year and not all of those were legacy from the Voss era.

One of the better written "pieces" on the subject I've read so far. Giving the coach leeway in order to succeed in the longer term is one thing,but without him providing any real evidence that changes have resulted in some kind of upward trajectory,the club can't just have blind faith that we've made enough steps in the right direction or will do under Leppitsch.

 

[braddsey]

I took from that bit that there was no win/loss factors in his contract back then. Now the goal posts have changed.

I think the change in the goal posts wasn't so much about the win/loss. I was supporting Leppa to stay on until the week following the Adelaide game (which is when it also changed in Leppa's view apparently). The percentage of 61% really points to the problem - that was massive week-in week-out smashings. Blaming the win-loss is a bit of a copout. If we finished with three wins, but stuck on there for a few more honerable losses then I think it's possible he may still have a job come Monday afternoon.
We had one close loss - 3 points to Sydney. The next closest was about 4 goals to GC, and then 6 goals to North.
Young developing sides still need to show spirit and/or endeavour... the occasional blowout is expected. The blowout being the norm is the killer.

TLR - what POBT said... only not as eloquently.

 

[Dalions]

Sacrificed his coaching career for the club. That is unless they decide to stick with what they have been preaching.

Not so sure about that. I think his team selection has been heavily criticized this year, and at times rightly so. He was playing young boys that have been no where ready for senior level. Fair enough as the year wore on there were not many options left. But there were certainly times when he was picking players that should not have been there. Cant use the youth policy as the only reason for not winning games, there has been some selection doozies through out the year.

 

[Football Pope]

Things are getting a little loose around here.

One of the famous phonetic exercises is "The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain"...In the catoon series Sylvester and Hipperty Hopper. The man of a 1,000 voices, Mel Blanc had the Scottish verion ....."There's a bloody great moose loose about the hoose".

 

[royboys4eva]

Leppa will be gone today and that is sad for a player who was a champion for our club and played a huge part in our triple treat. Unfortunately he hasn't cut the mustard as coach. Remember when Leppa took over one of the main priorities for him was to cut the margins of our losses which he said were unacceptable. Sadly they became worse under his time. When Leppa took over he said he had a defined game plan. Well i don't think anyone can say we have developed one in those three years. I think player development hasn't been a selling point for him either. Most players have digressed in his time. Taylor and Mayes especially.

What i will give Leppa credit for is starting a total and hopefully proper rebuild. He made some hard decisions which probably hasn't helped his coaching record. Also getting the Lambert's back to the club and re signing the majority of our squad has been a big tick.

But sadly end of the day you are judged not only on wins but development in game plan and players. If we had won 2/3 more games this year and had 2/3 close losing margins i would be all for keeping Leppa on board. Also the players can say they all the positive things in the World but when push comes to shove they don't do the little things or the hard things on the field and for me that says they don't believe in the coach or his game plan.

If the inevitable happens today i will feel terrible for Justin but i think it's the right move to go forward with another coach.

 

[DanT7]

Leppas parting shots at the club are interesting. The club looks bad now whether they keep him or not. I think he makes a valid point. They've been backing development and short term pain all along. I hope they bring in some experienced and very competent assistants, and a senior mentor for Leppa. Give the team a psych. Give him one more year.

 

[SRH17]

What he actually said was that his job description, as determined by the board, was to take a long term view, not a short term view.

He would have taken a shorter-term focus at last year's trade and free agency periods if he had known the Lions' win-loss record in 2016 would be crucial to him retaining his position. In other words if the board had wanted to see some short term success.

"I guess as a coach all you're asking for is what are you being assessed on, that's it.

"If it was win-loss this year I would have traded probably the first pick. You would do other things, wouldn't you?

"We went hard for (free agent Matthew) Suckling and then dropped off at the end because he was a bit older for our plans, so you would probably pursue that and you would do other things that give you that chance of upping the win-loss ratio.

"We actually traded picks for future picks for this year [in the James Aish trade]. No doubt (we) wouldn't have done that either.

"It's just knowing where you stand and what your KPIs are, that's the most important thing."

He felt he had fulfilled his fundamental job requirement over the past three years of introducing young talent to the club and retaining those players.



Really? So he can't win either way. Take a long term view as per board approval and suffer short term pain or satisfy supporters and a rabid media by taking a short term view and have some success. Isn't the latter what Voss tried?



Rubbish. Naturally he'd like to keep his job, but there's no doubt Leppitsch has put the long term interests of the club ahead of his own position. However it's reasonable to hope he has the support of the board. They're the ones that hire and fire.

I'm not gloating over the clubs situation, just truly shocked a senior coach would casually admit he was happy to essentially screw the club over in the long term just to get himself another contract in the short term. How can his position still be tenable after that comment?

The comment shows he puts his own interests before the clubs. Not the person you guys need to lead your club.

Thats a bit like a General Manager of a company deciding that he should determine the strategic direction of the company and disregard what the board of directors have set as the strategy.
Leppa's role was to carry out what the board had set in motion. His comment relates to the fact that he was doing what he was told, but then the narrative has changed in the last 3 weeks.
If that's whats happened then what is going on is appalling and there needs to be another clean out of the board.

 

[Nunez]

I think Leppa can coach, but he took the hardest job in footy when the reality is we should have got a senior coach on board. I appreciate Leppa building our list and retaining important players. In a few years from now when we're in the 8 we'll be looking back on how Leppa hit reset on the lisy bringing in amazing talents to the club.

 

[Squizz89]

"There's no excuses as far as personnel goes," Leppitsch said.

"That's just the facts. The beauty is we're only going to go up from here."

^^ Leppa in March this year. The irony is excuses is all we've been making all year.