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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Agreed. Just not sure we agree on how best to judge that.
More to the point - given an increase in resources at the end of this year, how will you ever judge that?
Haha. I did mean "back" as in "again", as opposed to the direction it is from here. The point of course is whichever way mediocrity is, I don't want us to get stuck there.i would like to slip up to mediocrity from deplorable Skoob.
Oh how I long for us to even reach mediocrity!!The really tough thing is that the board must protect/promote the club's business interests. That's what clubs are now, big business. Unfortunately, what is good for business, isn't necessarily conducive to long term football development, and vice versa.
Right now, Leppa is definitely good for business, and the question is, is this path right enough for football to justify the short to medium term damage to business?
Even if it is the right path in football terms, it might not be sustainable. If it is the right path, we may have to abandon it regardless, which could mean long term damage as we slip back into mediocrity and get stuck there for decades.
Actually depends on what the "Job" actually is. What are we really expecting next year or two, irrespective of who the coach is? How many years is expected til we make finals? Some clear goals to which we can benchmark from where we ar right now would be good. If it is 5 years away then the Board should be honest with everyone (Mind you, I'll probably have taken up watching Syncronised Swiming as my sport by then ).The thread title reads like a rhetorical question to me now.
EDIT: The answer is no.
Yep all of that is correct, thanks for the rin down though.
That is why coming into this season expectations from the board and most posters here was 6-8 wins (which is unusually low and a figure that would usually cost a coach their job in their 3rd year) what we have seen instead is regression of the playing group and one of the worst seasons dished up in the history or the AFL, with indervidual regression across the board and no signs of passion or the ability to turn it around .. thus the likelyhood of letting him go this far into his coaching tenure.
And the injury thing bought him time last year, realistically excuses are done with now as far a future planning goes.
That said, I am happy to give him the forth year of his contract, as we commited to that (i would not support and extention if his contract was up).. just lets be real, theres nothing brutal in the slightest about letting him go, if that's the path we choose.
3 of those were expansion sides though with bulk amounts of first year players. Yes we've had a few this year,but not as many as they had if I recall correctly.Gee people have really short memories when it comes to footy.
MEL 2013 — 2W 20L 54.07% — two 100+ point losses
GWS 2013 — 1W 21L 50.97% — five 100+ point losses
GWS 2012 — 2W 20L 46.17% — five 100+ point losses
GC 2011 — 3W 19L 56.27% — three 100+ point losses
There's four worse than our current season, and that's only going back five years.
Coincidentally, two of those three sides are tracking alright now.
And the only non-expansion side there had their coach sacked. Not a great example.Gee people have really short memories when it comes to footy.
MEL 2013 — 2W 20L 54.07% — two 100+ point losses
GWS 2013 — 1W 21L 50.97% — five 100+ point losses
GWS 2012 — 2W 20L 46.17% — five 100+ point losses
GC 2011 — 3W 19L 56.27% — three 100+ point losses
There's four worse than our current season, and that's only going back five years.
Coincidentally, two of those three sides are tracking alright now.
Gee people have really short memories when it comes to footy.
MEL 2013 — 2W 20L 54.07% — two 100+ point losses
GWS 2013 — 1W 21L 50.97% — five 100+ point losses
GWS 2012 — 2W 20L 46.17% — five 100+ point losses
GC 2011 — 3W 19L 56.27% — three 100+ point losses
There's four worse than our current season, and that's only going back five years.
Coincidentally, two of those three sides are tracking alright now.
So we just sign him up for another 3 years and accept mediocrity? In the name of stability?
Because next year will be just like this one for him, so do we give him an open ended contract sort of thing?
Theres nothing sudden or embarrassing in my opinion - infact the 'reason' lies with those suggesting a coaching chang IMO.
What is embarrassing is this victim position we have taken, what ever chance of saving this group psychologically is basically gone now we are claiming to be in this 'hopeless position' thats beyond our control.
A good coach can turn us around, these excuses, especially those coming directly from the club are doing so much harm, we are hiding behind them, zero accountability.
Bob murphy said the coach in the sun in the football club universe, he described it as 'all important'.. everything else pales in comparison.. nothing is working.. nothing.
I said nothing about accepting mediocrity. Or signing him up for 3 years. Stop taking such leaps and putting words in my mouth. My post AGAIN questions the value of change - it does not endorse Leppa as you keep choosing to see it.
You choose to ignore other factors constantly. You choose to call circumstances & external factors, excuses. You place more weight on the ability or affect of the coach than players or any other aspect of the club situation. Great. Those are your choices, your bents, your points of view.
I don't agree.
We've had that discussion a million times too. Let's not do it a million and one.
I said nothing about accepting mediocrity. Or signing him up for 3 years. Stop taking such leaps and putting words in my mouth. My post AGAIN questions the value of change - it does not endorse Leppa as you keep choosing to see it.
You choose to ignore other factors constantly. You choose to call circumstances & external factors, excuses. You place more weight on the ability or affect of the coach than players or any other aspect of the club situation. Great. Those are your choices, your bents, your points of view.
I don't agree.
We've had that discussion a million times too. Let's not do it a million and one.
the flip???.. that was up for like 2 seconds and then I deleted it - how'd you capture that? Agree mate, I soooo disagree with your opinion on this.. but I wrote half that post then decided not to post coz you're right its the same thing over and over, but left half of it there when responding to Danny accidently.. wasn't meant to go live as per edit above. But did.. does that mean I meant it.. or not? Sorry I'm a mess on the post.
Ps - I asked you if we should sign him up and accept mediocrity in light of your post? Didnt actually put words in your mouth Lol
the flip???.. that was up for like 2 seconds and then I deleted it - how'd you capture that? Agree mate, I soooo disagree with your opinion on this.. but I wrote half that post then decided not to post coz you're right its the same thing over and over, but left half of it there when responding to Danny accidently.. wasn't meant to go live as per edit above. But did.. does that mean I meant it.. or not? Sorry I'm a mess on the post.
Ps - I asked you if we should sign him up and accept mediocrity in light of your post? Didnt actually put words in your mouth Lol
For what it's worth I had almost accepted the almost inevitable removal of Leppa weeks ago. Saturday night made me remove the almost part.
My posts did and continue to question the value of this endless cycle. The constant change and turmoil. The rerouting of our path like a psychotic GPS. We've gained nothing from it in the past and will continue to reap the same unless we make some deeper, fundamental changes at the club.
It's never really been about Leppa, although I feel he's been dealt a very harsh hand and as a loyal servant of our club I despise the level/nature of criticism and have defended him, its about this mindless, incessant, unrealistic, impossible desire for instant success.
You'll almost certainly get your wish.
But you'd bloody well better hope that the pot of gold that you seem so sure exists is actually there because if this all counts for nothing in 2 years time I will be beyond livid.
Theres been some absolutely ludicrous claims made in this thread about what someone else can or will or would do... if we tear ourselves apart again it had better be bloody worth it.
I'm sick of seeing my club embroiled in one saga after another. Enough is enough.
To add to that - we'd be sitting on 1W and about 56% if Essendon weren't missing half their side.Gee people have really short memories when it comes to footy.
MEL 2013 — 2W 20L 54.07% — two 100+ point losses
GWS 2013 — 1W 21L 50.97% — five 100+ point losses
GWS 2012 — 2W 20L 46.17% — five 100+ point losses
GC 2011 — 3W 19L 56.27% — three 100+ point losses
There's four worse than our current season, and that's only going back five years.
Coincidentally, two of those three sides are tracking alright now.
My wish? And you always harping on about not putting words in your mouth. I really respect your opinion, i mean that, but you can be incredibly hypocritical at times, you hate in other posters what you do yourself in almost all circumstances.
I have never claimed a new coach will save us, I pointed put that recent history suggests it is possible.
Just as you'll be shattered if a new coach doesent work, others will be equally shattered if we continue on this trajectory under Leppa into next season only to have to sack him mid season, can you imagine the risk we take by doing that and where we will be as a club if this continues for another 12 months? The risk is 'entire board removed'.. 'afl administration'.. 'manergerial negligence' territory.. yet you talk about it as if its obvious and safe.
I think most posting on this has grown to be balanced, I find your claims of it being virtually impossible to turn it around.. just because we had 2 similar inexperienced, former club legends, cut from the same cloth, fail is similar ways.. to be slightly unbalanced.
Even though you claim I'm one eyed, I actually see reason in defense of Leppa, often.. and will still support his 4th year if we go that way.
What ever way we go, keeping him as a hell of a lot scarier prospect than handing the keys to someone new and thats something I feel you ignore.
You claim its blood letting, and baying for this and that.. what about the other option? What about if we keep him and he fails again next year?
Even though you claim I'm one eyed, I actually see reason in defense of Leppa, often.. and will still support his 4th year if we go that way.
What ever way we go, keeping him as a hell of a lot scarier prospect than handing the keys to someone new and thats something I feel you ignore.
The sad part is, nothing will change as we have gone backwards this year, we will have no momentum going into '17 - we will continue to be belted week after week in the first 10 weeks.. and he will be sacked mid season, we will lose young players and it will demolish what is left our clubs sprit.
Its also the 'risk' they take in leaving him there.
If by some miricle he gets a bounce out of the playing group next year, that will be great.. but if all reasonable signs and tanigible trajectorys continue on his watch, it is actually managerial negligence..
Who are you trying to convince? I knew half way through last year there was no way Leppa was going to work out.
Its his third year, nothing remotely 'brutal' about a decision to let him go. Keeping him would be the closer decision to 'brutal'.. in terms of 'brutally risky on players and supporters' .. what ever we decide we can find a way to live with.
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The last page of this thread
So the next step in that discussion simply asks the question... if those changes benefit a new coach surely they would benefit the current one? And if that's the case then do we really need a public beheading?
So very torn on this issue.
While some dismiss other factors either completely or at least greatly diminish the role they play in our current predicament, my gut keeps telling me that we are where we are, being as much due to circumstance and the AFL cycle as it is coaching.
I just can't get excited about repeating history because of the baying of supporters and media. Blood letting at the club has become as important as the game itself. If we can't win on field, we'll show them who's boss by creating upheaval off it. It's actually an embarrassment to have these witch hunts so regularly either by design or default.
3 years ago we started a full list rebuild. 34 new players. Our 2 most skillful recruits have played less than half the available games. I believe we had our best team on the field twice in that time. We have the youngest age profile of any team, with an experience one to match and the removal of Rog from that drops us even further. Factor a draw from hell and a revolving door to the injury ward, and while all of us are disappointed, a dispassionate view probably says we could have expected little more as the year ground on.
Already we know that next year we'll have new faces. New assistants, there's talk of a much needed psych, and who knows, maybe the review brings new management and even a new coach. 1 article that I know of has claimed a rift between playing group and coach, and this thread went into melt down. Without confirmation of that fact of any kind and at least some evidence to the contrary, obituaries have been written and eulogies read.
I honestly don't think this year would have been much different regardless of coach. I accept others will disagree. People paid more and far smarter than me constantly state they honestly don't know if Leppa can actually coach. On that we agree.
Where I waver is the pain vs gain ratio.
We have some hard questions to ask at the end of this season.
Have we created an environment that is soft on players?
Do we expect, or actually demand less, of our players than other clubs?
Are we paralysed by fear of a player lead revolt or exodus?
How do we self motivate the playing group to demand more of themselves?
Will we be able to replicate the structure of a successful clubs football dept even with increased spending given our struggle for experienced personnel?
Can we attract a level of competence off the field commensurate with our desires on field?
If we can't be honest enough and brave enough to answer those questions I can't see what changing a coach will achieve. Deck chairs = Titanic.
All I could predict is that if we're not, we may as well start the new thread "who will be our coach in 2020?" right now.
For what it's worth I had almost accepted the almost inevitable removal of Leppa weeks ago. Saturday night made me remove the almost part.
My posts did and continue to question the value of this endless cycle. The constant change and turmoil. The rerouting of our path like a psychotic GPS. We've gained nothing from it in the past and will continue to reap the same unless we make some deeper, fundamental changes at the club.
It's never really been about Leppa, although I feel he's been dealt a very harsh hand and as a loyal servant of our club I despise the level/nature of criticism and have defended him, its about this mindless, incessant, unrealistic, impossible desire for instant success.
You'll almost certainly get your wish.
But you'd bloody well better hope that the pot of gold that you seem so sure exists is actually there because if this all counts for nothing in 2 years time I will be beyond livid.
Theres been some absolutely ludicrous claims made in this thread about what someone else can or will or would do... if we tear ourselves apart again it had better be bloody worth it.
I'm sick of seeing my club embroiled in one saga after another. Enough is enough.