Is Puopolo underrated?

[cryptor]

Lonie is average. Yeah he would.

I'd ignore this bloke. I recognised his name from other Hawthorn related topics on Big Footy and checked his post history to be sure. He is obsessed with bagging Hawthorn.

Look how many of his latest posts over a period of days have been in this thread about Puopolo... http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/search/71894187/

Posts way more negative stuff about Hawthorn than he does positive or even neutral stuff about his own team - or anything else for that matter.

Dermie must've stolen his girl when they were younger or something.

 

[Sixpence]

Yeah no worries. May have been pressing the point. Good call

Maybe, but I'm with TyHawk here. Haven't agreed with everything you've said but have agreed with most of it and find your posts quite well written. Refreshing change from a lot of the shit posted by Hawks and non-Hawks fans alike in this thread.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Threads probably run its course. My summation:

Is Puopolo underrated? Everyone rates him differently but essentially he is a role player in a great side.
Would Hawthorn still be great without him? Of course.
Would he make most/all side's 22? Yes, most likely.
Would he be as effective? Pure speculation really. Most likely still offer what he does (esp. defensively) but his deficiencies may be more emphasized.

 

[MC_9]

Why is this thread still going.

He is a role player, in a great team.

Simple. Nothing else to be discussed.

Bigfooty, where people argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Arc1]

Why is this thread still going.

He is a role player, in a great team.

Simple. Nothing else to be discussed.

Bigfooty, where people argue for the sake of arguing.

Internet, where people...

Well I guess there's also pr0n

 

[pacman]

Wouldn't get a game at StKilda

pfft ok.

 

[hk89]

That's exactly why he won't get a game at the bottom six clubs, stop getting salty about it.

So the fact that he'd be the best small forward at most bottom 6 sides is a reason he'd not get a game for them? The development argument is fine, but it is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and isn't the argument being used by the posters supporting these sides who think Poppy just isn't good enough.

Poppy is already rated as one of the top small forwards by champion data (ranked 9th) which uses stats that is based on metrics that measure impacts on positive outcomes for the team rather than pure possession count and goal tally, and has him ahead of ALL the small/medium forwards from bottom 6 sides. That is despite the fact he has to fight for stats against two of the top 4 small forwards in the competition. Yes, we have a very good forward line such that the worst player in it would walk into most other sides. That's partly why we've won 3 in a row. Poppy is not the best small forward in the competition - we have two better at our club, and there are several better offensive forwards at other clubs, but those suggesting he wouldn't get games at most other clubs - especially the bottom 6 are simply salty campaigners jealous of our success. Some of our other bottom 6 players are considerably weaker, but our forward line has been the best in the competition for several years so it is unlikely a player that gets a regular game there is going to be too far off the pace in terms of competing with those in a similar position and role at other clubs.

 

[mike123]

So the fact that he'd be the best small forward at most bottom 6 sides is a reason he'd not get a game for them?

I wouldn't pick him ahead of Josh Green, Brendan Matera, Jack Lonie or Jeff Garlett.

Poppy is already rated as one of the top small forwards by champion data (ranked 9th) which uses stats that is based on metrics that measure impacts on positive outcomes for the team rather than pure possession count and goal tally, and has him ahead of ALL the small/medium forwards from bottom 6 sides

.

That's nice, buts its allot easier to impact games and get good ratings in a top team. You'll find that will go down once he's in a struggling club.

That is despite the fact he has to fight for stats against two of the top 4 small forwards in the competition.

That's nice, atleast his team has has the ball constantly inside 50 with perfect delivery.

Yes, we have a very good forward line such that the worst player in it would walk into most other sides. That's partly why we've won 3 in a row.

You've won three in a row because of your stars across the board. You could switch out Puopolo with any average workhouse and your team would function the same.

Poppy is not the best small forward in the competition - we have two better at our club, and there are several better offensive forwards at other clubs, but those suggesting he wouldn't get games at most other clubs - especially the bottom 6 are simply salty campaigners jealous of our success.

Those Hawks supporter that think Poppy will get game at a bottom six club are dick head w***ers that don't know how a rebuild or a struggling forwardline works.

Some of our other bottom 6 players are considerably weaker, but our forward line has been the best in the competition for several years so it is unlikely a player that gets a regular game there is going to be too far off the pace in terms of competing with those in a similar position and role at other clubs.

At a bottom six club he'd struggle to have an impact and only take game time away from developing players. Your forwardline has been has been great because of the stars that have been loaded with and the midfield it has delivering it to.

 

[#gosaintas]

Billings and Lonie play ahead of him at StKilda - he'd be playing for Sandringham

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I wouldn't pick him ahead of Josh Green, Brendan Matera, Jack Lonie or Jeff Garlett.

Those Hawks supporter that think Poppy will get game at a bottom six club are dick head ******s that don't know how a rebuild or a struggling forwardline works.

Holds his place in the best side in the comp, wins three flags in a row.....but wouldn't get played in a bottom 6 team.

Absolute utter rubbish.

Bottom teams who are rebuilding often play mature age players who compete with endeavour, and who can lead by example. If Puopolo ever found himself in a bottom 6 side, you could count on the coaches looking to him to show the youngsters what hard work looks like.

 

[hk89]

Those Hawks supporter that think Poppy will get game at a bottom six club are dick head ******s that don't know how a rebuild or a struggling forwardline works.

Those clubs have struggling forward lines because they have shit players in their forward line that shouldn't get games ahead of Poppy. You can't do a rebuild based entirely around development concerns because that leads to monumental smashings that the psyche of the developing players never recovers from. See Melbourne.

At a bottom six club he'd struggle to have an impact and only take game time away from developing players. Your forwardline has been has been great because of the stars that have been loaded with and the midfield it has delivering it to.

The stats say Poppy has been a very solid contributor to our wins. It is pure speculation that he'd not hold form in a lesser forward line with less stars fighting with him for possession. For a start he's not the kind of player you'd normally play a lockdown job on. He's the guy locking the ball inside the forward 50, not the guy kicking the goals, so taking a better defender might not have the impact it would have on a forward in the side primary as a finisher.

 

[mike123]

Holds his place in the best side in the comp, wins three flags in a row.....but wouldn't get played in a bottom 6 team.

Absolute utter rubbish.

Plays his role in a side were everything is spoon fed... I can make useless statements too!

Bottom teams who are rebuilding often play mature age players who compete with endeavour, and who can lead by example. If Puopolo ever found himself in a bottom 6 side, you could count on the coaches looking to him to show the youngsters what hard work looks like.

That's a good point, generally teams wants these kind of players in other positions like midfielders or half backs where they can impact the game more, as a as a small forward its harder to play this role especially when your team is getting no inside 50. In fact now that I think of it Puopolo could maybe get a game as a midfielder in a bottom six club but not a small forward IMO.

 

[mike123]

Those clubs have struggling forward lines because they have shit players in their forward line that shouldn't get games ahead of Poppy.

Or they just don't get the delivery that Hawthorn gets.

You can't do a rebuild based entirely around development concerns because that leads to monumental smashings that the psyche of the developing players never recovers from. See Melbourne.

Your right but the experience has to be in positions like the midfield and the backline where they can actually impact the game IMO, that why Daniel Cross was a success for Melbourne. If you have an experienced player in the forward line barely touch it, he's really just wasting game time that a younger player could use to develop.

The stats say Poppy has been a very solid contributor to our wins. It is pure speculation that he'd not hold form in a lesser forward line with less stars fighting with him for possession. For a start he's not the kind of player you'd normally play a lockdown job on. He's the guy locking the ball inside the forward 50, not the guy kicking the goals, so taking a better defender might not have the impact it would have on a forward in the side primary as a finisher.

The might be less stars, but there also shit delivery and bare any inside 50's he'll have to compete with.

I know its speculation but I have seen a similar example in Jarryd Blair.

 

[cryptor]

So Hodge, Mitchell or Burgoyne wouldn't get games at a St Kilda or Carlton because they're old and closer to retirement than these teams are to their next flag. That's essentially the argument that is put forward for Puopolo not getting a game.

Someone of Puopolo's character - someone who works hard and plays for the team is exactly what young, developing sides need. A side that is just made up of talented, young players isn't going to get much better just because they get 50-100 games under their belt. They need leadership and role models.

 

[mike123]

So Hodge, Mitchell or Burgoyne wouldn't get games at a St Kilda or Carlton because they're old and closer to retirement than these teams are to their next flag.

You said it not me.

 

[hk89]

Or they just don't get the delivery that Hawthorn gets.

Or both a crap forward line and lower volume of inside 50s. Saints got a lot of ball inside 50, but didn't capitalise on it as much as other teams. They average more inside 50s than both Richmond and North Melbourne. Saints would probably have benefited more than any of the other bottom 6 clubs from a good defensive forward, but they are probably one of the two sides in the bottom 6 with the clearest potential upward arc, so they might decide development comes before trying to get more wins on the board, but it is a delicate balancing act. As I said, you want to avoid creating a culture of losing by focussing on development alone.

Your right but the experience has to be in positions like the midfield and the backline where they can actually impact the game IMO, that why Daniel Cross was a success for Melbourne. If you have an experienced player in the forward line barely touch it, he's really just wasting game time that a younger player could use to develop.

If you look at the difference in how much ball comes inside the bottom 6's forward lines, the difference compared to the lower ranked teams who played finals isn't massive. Much of the bottom 6 only averaged around 4 less inside 50s than Freo per game, and around 6 less than a bunch of top 8 sides. Forwards in these sides are barely touching it partly because
a) They are not very good.
b) They don't have the players that can keep the ball in there long enough to create possessions.

Put a defensive forward like Poppy in these sides, and his pressure, ability to create contests and keep the ball inside 50 will mean the developing forwards get a lot longer to have a crack at the ball when it does get down there.

The might be less stars, but there also shit delivery and bare any inside 50's he'll have to compete with.

I know its speculation but I have seen a similar example in Jarryd Blair.

There are so many factors involved I think it is hyperbole to make blanket statements like 'X wouldn't get a game in a bottom 6 side because he has the luxury of playing in a top side'. Coaches have to balance development and success, they also have roles they love to see filled, and some roles they think are overrated so might not fill. The issue of shit delivery and inside 50s versus competing with less elite players versus competing against higher rated defenders because you're no longer 5th or 6th in line etc are also unknowns in terms of what trajectory a player would take after moving.

There may well be bottom 6 teams that prefer development time over what Poppy would add. He might also suck without the other great players around him, but this is guess work until Hawthorn slides or he moves teams. Given the age of our list you might be able to bump this thread in a couple of years with a 'I told you so', but by then he may be on the age-slide himself, so we may never know how he would preform in a weaker side.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It goes to show how tough life can be for quality players when puopolo wins premiership medals. Works hard etc but is extremely fortunate to be right place right time.

 

[cryptor]

You said it not me.

Who are you?

 

[Gunstall555]

hard to disagree with everything, cept "he'd get a game at most clubs". IMHO he wouldn't be in the top 10 small forwards in the comp, so i'd have him getting a game at about half the teams in the comp.

he just has the fortune of playing in one of the best teams in memory. So yeah he looks good when they put the ball on a platter for him. What a surprise.

its like saying Brad Hill is an elite winger. The guy is a seagul who looks good in an awesome team. I call it the Des Headland effect.

It appears that we have 22 players that are lucky they are playing in a champion team and wouldn't be any good at another club.

 

[Lorne Malvo]

No. He's ok. Gets more then enough credit for what he does.

I really like him, his a grafter, tough & disciplined. That's about it though. He gets the most out of himself so for that full credit, but he's no gun

 

[Footy 1st]

It goes to show how tough life can be for quality players when puopolo wins premiership medals. Works hard etc but is extremely fortunate to be right place right time.

Cam Mooney likes this post

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

Will struggle to play AFL football again.

 

[#gosaintas]

Will struggle to play AFL football again.

he was already struggling

 

[mike123]

It appears that we have 22 players that are lucky they are playing in a champion team and wouldn't be any good at another club.

I like how its only Hawks supporters saying this.

 

[HeHateMe]

I like how its only Hawks supporters saying this.

His post was an exaggeration but on point. Not always the same posters but over the last few years at different times by different posters with different opinions ive heard close to 22 players get called overrated or not up to it.

Although ill concide most of those statements where made be certain geelong poster whos name starts with 'B'.

Edit: and also off course its only hawks posters saying it. Do you expect me to know all the collingwood players that have been called overrated by different posters? I know ive heard and help defend Cloke when people try to scape goat him beyond that I haven't taken much notice.