Opinion Is there a God? Atheists, agnostics and believers please slug it out here.

[The Royal Sampler]

What's the reverse argument here? I'm not claiming there is a God, I'm stating that anyone who says there is needs to prove it to others if they want to be taken seriously.

Yes that was nonsensical. It remains impossible to disprove the existence of God whether there is one believer or one trillion.

 

[spartan-magpie]

The majority of Western society's children believe in Santa Claus. He shares a lot of similarities with God; in that he is omnipresent ("he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good") and he has self-serving explanations for remaining unseen and intangible (he only comes if you're asleep in bed) while performing tasks reserved for deities (delivering toys to the world's children in one night).

I really don't think that having a large number of believers equates to a polar shift in the burden of proof.

Can you provide one argument in favour of God that cannot equally be applied to elves?

You guys are too smart for me.


God exists. I can't prove it. And I can't Disagree with your logic.

Only one way to find out. We will see in a several decades.

 

[Old Spice]

You guys are too smart for me.


God exists. I can't prove it. And I can't Disagree with your logic.

Only one way to find out. We will see in a several decades.

This displeases Xylor greatly!

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Can you provide one argument in favour of God that cannot equally be applied to elves?

Sure...

Daicos would make any team better; Blairy would not

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Daicos wasn't God, he was the Macedonian Marvel. Fail.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

I admire you sirlothie for holding to your beliefs in the face of all this cynicism and heresy; not an easy thing to do.

To me there is a difference between faith and religion.
Religion is about control and fear mongering and greed and power.
Since the beginning of man wars have been fought in the name of religion, with total disregard for an individual's belief. People are made to kill their neighbours because they don't believe in the same God. They're told what to eat, who they can sleep with, not to take contraception, etc etc all because of (many) someone's interpretation of the Bible, or whatever you call it.
I spent a bit of time in the Old City of Jerusalem - a few years back when you could walk freely between the four quarters. Here you have a quarter each devoted to the 4 main religions of the world, all claiming their God is the supreme being, and that Jerusalem was the birthplace of that religion.
It's a relatively harmonious place, but does highlight that there are many interpretations of a similar thing. How can they all be right, or wrong?

Faith, on the other hand, is something different.
To me it's about believing in a higher part of yourself, a divine part, a higher consciousness.
Some call it their soul, or intuition, or higher self. I think it's the part of you that, when you ask and listen, helps guide you in a way that encourages you to be the best version of yourself.
I also believe in life after death and reincarnation.
There are many books out there, based on scientific studies, many by doctors, who have shown conclusively that this is the case.

I'm not here to convert anyone to my way of thinking; I'm just saying there's a big difference in having faith in someone or something bigger than yourself, without getting bogged down in the 'creation and how did God do it?' stuff, and being told what you can and can't do by religion.

What's the fourth major religion represented in Jerusalem? Are you counting Shia and Sunni Islam as separate faiths?

 

[DAWESOME!!]

If anyone thinks I'm wrong then they need to go back to school and learn probabilities again


Infinite space + worlds that can support life = aliens

But incredibly small odds that we'll ever encounter any, let alone intelligent life. Time and space too big.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

It appears to come up primarily in "On Life After Death", where she relates the stories of people who have had Near Death Experiences.

Stating the obvious in saying that near-death is not death, and how that qualifies anyone to comment on what happens after death is beyond me... but at least Kübler-Ross was able to contribute a great deal to the dignity of those actually dying in her work. I have a lot of respect for her for that.

Conclusively proving the existence of an afterlife, and reincarnation? She'd have a Nobel Prize already, or quite possibly the Nobel Prize would have been renamed in her honour.

She'd have her own religion, whether she wanted it or not.

 

[Vicky Park]

Only one way to find out. We will see in a several decades.

Several decades? Sooner for me I think. But I won't see anything, as I'll cease to be a sentient being. Born, live, die, nothing - I'm ok with that.

 

[sirlothie]

Several decades? Sooner for me I think. But I won't see anything, as I'll cease to be a sentient being. Born, live, die, nothing - I'm ok with that.

Nice signature.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I believe in Aliens

Bindi Irwin & Kylie Minogue are proof.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I'm familiar with Kubler Ross and her papers on the stages of grieving, however I'm not up to speed with her work conclusively proving the existence of an afterlife and reincarnation. I imagine it would make for compelling reading.

EFA

 

[BlackWhiteBlood]

But incredibly small odds that we'll ever encounter any, let alone intelligent life. Time and space too big.

I would argue that there is little intelligent life here on earth, the way we are destroying the planet and killing each other. But that is another argument.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

http://www.near-death.com/science/experts/elisabeth-kubler-ross.html

Interesting that her "proof" is a drunk heroine addict telling her he saw spirits when he was nearly killed...

I'm sorry MG but this sort of proof has already been debunked by Science. During a NDE the pineal gland releases a massive amount of the chemical DMT which creates sensory experiences to the brain such as... encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light.

It's basically the same chemical that gives us "dreams",it's the body's own way to ease its suffering when it think's its time is up. Is that Kubler's only evidence of spirits/an after live? An outdated theory that relies on anecdotal evidence (the most unreliable kind) and has already been debunked by modern science?

People experience visions in near death experiences because they enter a dream-like state due to chemicals inside the brain, this is proven beyond doubt by science.

Why did god make us so intricate?

Why the need for an endocrine system, pulmonary system etc. It seems all he gave us was ways to fail.
Why didn't he just put batteries in us without all the complications of a human body, what a campaigner!

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I would argue that there is little intelligent life here on earth, the way we are destroying the planet and killing each other. But that is another argument.

The cause?

Greed & Religion (not always mutually exclusive), time in memorium.

 

[Magpie Girl]

http://www.near-death.com/science/experts/elisabeth-kubler-ross.html

Interesting that her "proof" is a drunk heroine addict telling her he saw spirits when he was nearly killed...

I'm sorry MG but this sort of proof has already been debunked by Science. During a NDE the pineal gland releases a massive amount of the chemical DMT which creates sensory experiences to the brain such as... encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light.

It's basically the same chemical that gives us "dreams",it's the body's own way to ease its suffering when it think's its time is up. Is that Kubler's only evidence of spirits/an after live? An outdated theory that relies on anecdotal evidence (the most unreliable kind) and has already been debunked by modern science?

People experience visions in near death experiences because they enter a dream-like state due to chemicals inside the brain, this is proven beyond doubt by science.

Perhaps try reading one of her many books kappa before making a comment on one case that you don't agree with.

On the other hand I'm not here to convince you; it doesn't matter to me if you believe or not, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss 40 years of research from an internationally renowned doctor, and 20 or so books that she's written on matters to do with dying, and after life, or out of body experiences without reading more than one paragraph.

 

[Kappa]

Perhaps try reading one of her many books kappa before making a comment on one case that you don't agree with.

On the other hand I'm not here to convince you; it doesn't matter to me if you believe or not, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss 40 years of research from an internationally renowned doctor, and 20 or so books that she's written on matters to do with dying, and after life, or out of body experiences without reading more than one paragraph.

What other evidence does she use?

You said she had proved it, I can't find any other "proof" she has than anecdotal evidence that has been debunked

 

[Prankster]

Perhaps try reading one of her many books kappa before making a comment on one case that you don't agree with.

On the other hand I'm not here to convince you; it doesn't matter to me if you believe or not, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss 40 years of research from an internationally renowned doctor, and 20 or so books that she's written on matters to do with dying, and after life, or out of body experiences without reading more than one paragraph.

He's not missing the point at all though. It really does come down to DMT and what your body does while it's in shock to help come to terms with the situation.

Whilst you are in the process of dying, if you believe in a god, you will most likely see one. This has nothing to do with the fact whether he exists or not, but more to do with the fact that our bodies are designed to cope with the shock of death and release a concoction of pleasure producing chemicals to ease the pain when we know it's finally time to go, similar to how our body produces adrenaline and activates the fight-or-flight system when we are in extreme distress. (Our brain is so powerful, that when it releases abnormal amounts of adrenaline to a high level, extreme feats can be accomplished. People have lifted cars off others when going into extreme shock at the thought of them dying due to said car.) - The power of the brain cannot be denied.

DMT is highly psychedelic, if you're ever going to see shit during a trip then this is the drug to do so. (I have never done DMT, nor ever plan to, but nobody can deny the effects of DMT as there has been multiple studies into it. Heck, even a quick google search of it gives you some pretty trippy visuals to look at)

This mixture of DMT and other chemicals your body is producing when you're dying (dopamine, norephedrine, serotonin, adrenaline) is all designed to make you feel good and come to terms with your death. It's the main reason why you don't see people on their death bed flipping out with the fact that they're about to die.

There is very good evidence by multiple credible people that people see things while in the process of a NDE, due to the above reasons below.
Literally every argument one has for seeing 'God' during or after a NDE, can be debunked by science and facts. The brain is a very very very complex organ and modern day science still does not understand 100% of how it works, surprisingly we understand very little about the brain. We understand so little about it, that half the prescription drugs given to you and your children, we don't even know how it works! Well, we know how it works but, not entirely.

For example Paracetamol (Panadol) is known to block pain receptors by altering chemicals and neurons in the body, but its' mechanism of action and exactly how it works on the brain as a whole is still not clear as to this day. And we've been using Panadol as a society for a very long time now. We know it works, we know it's part of a basic health system and we can't live without it, but we are baffled to exactly how the mixture of chemicals does what it does. While we have the least knowledge about the brain when compared to any other human organ, we're slowly unlocking the secrets to it's potential with every passing decade and there'll be some pretty scary stuff coming up soon, like the ability to alter DNA cells and completely single out DNA growth/repair in children and Adults. And while it's still about 40 years off being to a state we can use, we're closer than ever to realizing the reality of the movie Gattica. (Designer babies, anyone?)

Humans as a whole are constantly tinkering with our species, whether right or wrong. And It baffles me how we as a race have discussed the possibility of a higher existence and fought wars over a higher existence when we don't even know hardly anything about our own existence.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Born, live, die, nothing -

Bit like our hopes for a '2010' dynasty

 

[Vicky Park]

Bit like our hopes for a '2010' dynasty

Yeah, the cycle of life flags.

 

[jathanas]

He also fathered Monica Bellucci

Damn! I was happy to stay out of this until Monica was mentioned. She is living proof of a higher power.

I agree with the live and let live principle, each to theirs.

I secretly get stroppy when some buddies with strong religious beliefs assume I have turned my back on opportunities to become spiritually enlighetened; but I know they like me just the same.

I also get slightly peeved when clear scientific evidence is rejected with religious dogma, but that is the world we live in.

There are some proven mental health benefits to living with faith. It works for human beings.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

EFA

I must be sleep deprived; I can't even find the bit you changed.

 

[Ulahoopski]

Here I was reading through this thread and thinking how logical and intelligent my Collingwood BF brethren were - that was before I clicked the "Show Ignored Content" - coincidental? Um, no.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

What are you saying; you've got me on ignore?

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Friends, I started posting in this thread an atheist. I am now a believer in my personal saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Anyone who doubts the presence of Satan, read every post in TG's Buckley v Cloke thread.