Opinion Is this rock bottom?

[guapo]

I think you could reasonably argue that the current squad has almost as much talent and potential as the great squads of the 70’s and 90’s.

Sure, there’s no Carey, Blight, Greig, but those guys are on the very top shelf of the history of the game.

LDU, TT, Sheez, GW and Souv are a core of very high end talent. Reports on Colby are super exciting, ZD and Sausage could bring great firepower, and the raw potential of Goad and Dawson could round us out beautifully.

I’m optimistic that rock bottom is behind us and a quick climb isn’t too far ahead


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[Pres]

I hope that when we beat all these sides that have large winning streaks against us, it's something like the margin of the match against Hawthorn in 1994 when we hadn't beaten them for 9 years. I was too young to see that but it looks like the team took out a decade of frustration on them all at once. 127 points was the final margin.

I remember that game and think about it from time to time along the same lines as you. Was very cathartic. Seem to recall Dunstall interviewed after and he said that the opposition were audibly saying how much more they wanted to crush them by even though they were already miles up.

I'll party for 2 days when we finally smash Geelong.

 

[krakouers]

Nope this is:

 

[krakouers]

Brad Scott started all this s**t

And now he’s at *

Expect them to go through the same

It’s glorious

 

[kirbonavich]

In comparison to our 2022>2023 season we have improved over 29 stat categories, the issue is compared to the AFL average improvement YoY from 2022>2023, we are going backwards still.

Team improvement compared to AFL average - Orange
Team improvement compared to 22>23 club season - Blue
AFL stat ranking 2023 - Green

 

[The Talent Scout]

I’m strangely optimistic about next year. Am I wrong to be?

No, its already started at training and after the break will slowly ramp up, this is the year we've got what we needed to get, in players and coaches, next year is going to be a positive breakout for this team.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Brad Scott started all this s**t

Is there any particular reason why Rhyce Shaw gets off scot-free? is it the mental health thing? if so fair enough

 

[Marstermind]

I’m strangely optimistic about next year. Am I wrong to be?

Depends. What are you optimistic about achieving?

 

[Marstermind]

Is there any particular reason why Rhyce Shaw gets off scot-free? is it the mental health thing? if so fair enough

Good question. I wonder how history will judge Rhyce Shaw as coach?

Obviously - he failed. But it would be fair to say he took over the Titanic as it was steaming towards the iceberg. And even that's harsh - we were hardly as classy as the Titanic in 2019. And in hindsight, he ascension to Senior Coach was too steep.

But he was 8-5 when Covid hit. 9-5 straight after the resumption. The footy we were playing in those 14 games was at an intensity that was off the scale*. (except 1.8-14 v Geelong...and even that was saved by annihilating Port the next week)

I think that there is a book to be written about our Covid hub in 2020. Unfortunately it would be a tragedy. How an organisation completely fell apart and a total failure of leadership in a crisis. What went on? How did the BBB relationship fall apart so badly? Who made the decision to delist 11 players within 24-hours of the last game (before any of the other 17 teams played their last game) and how did this impact a hub? When did Shaw's mental issues become clear, and what support did he get? How did they become so absolute that he had to leave never to return. What was Amarfio doing amidst all of this?

I wish I had the chops, or had the access to key figures, to write such a book.

 

[The acurate one]

Is there any particular reason why Rhyce Shaw gets off scot-free? is it the mental health thing? if so fair enough

Yes good point, well we made the guy coach and we failed him in my opinion. He wasn’t ready for that job.

Now Scott , for me lowered the standards on expectation. He seemed happy to gauge success as playing at the highest level. Never did it seem to cross his mind that winning the darn thing was and still is the main aim.

Some many unfit footballers and those that were on a list for too long. Al said day one, he will churn the list looking for those good enough for September. Al also said anyone can near get on a list. Scott it seems loves his “ anyone’s”.

 

[RightWingRoo]

Yes good point, well we made the guy coach and we failed him in my opinion. He wasn’t ready for that job.

Now Scott , for me lowered the standards on expectation. He seemed happy to gauge success as playing at the highest level. Never did it seem to cross his mind that winning the darn thing was and still is the main aim.

Some many unfit footballers and those that were on a list for too long. Al said day one, he will churn the list looking for those good enough for September. Al also said anyone can near get on a list. Scott it seems loves his “ anyone’s”.

It will get better, simply because we now have competent people running and coaching the club. Can't understate how important that is

 

[Gasometer]

Good question. I wonder how history will judge Rhyce Shaw as coach?

Obviously - he failed. But it would be fair to say he took over the Titanic as it was steaming towards the iceberg. And even that's harsh - we were hardly as classy as the Titanic in 2019. And in hindsight, he ascension to Senior Coach was too steep.

But he was 8-5 when Covid hit. 9-5 straight after the resumption. The footy we were playing in those 14 games was at an intensity that was off the scale*. (except 1.8-14 v Geelong...and even that was saved by annihilating Port the next week)

I think that there is a book to be written about our Covid hub in 2020. Unfortunately it would be a tragedy. How an organisation completely fell apart and a total failure of leadership in a crisis. What went on? How did the BBB relationship fall apart so badly? Who made the decision to delist 11 players within 24-hours of the last game (before any of the other 17 teams played their last game) and how did this impact a hub? When did Shaw's mental issues become clear, and what support did he get? How did they become so absolute that he had to leave never to return. What was Amarfio doing amidst all of this?

I wish I had the chops, or had the access to key figures, to write such a book.

Just as well you said “book”, because I hear someone at Windymarine is thinking of a “movie” for their saga

 

[Gasometer]

Yes good point, well we made the guy coach and we failed him in my opinion. He wasn’t ready for that job.

Now Scott , for me lowered the standards on expectation. He seemed happy to gauge success as playing at the highest level. Never did it seem to cross his mind that winning the darn thing was and still is the main aim.

Some many unfit footballers and those that were on a list for too long. Al said day one, he will churn the list looking for those good enough for September. Al also said anyone can near get on a list. Scott it seems loves his “ anyone’s”.

Don’t forget Polec arguing his case at quarter time

 

[Devil Fish]

I think you could reasonably argue that the current squad has almost as much talent and potential as the great squads of the 70’s and 90’s.

No you couldn’t.

 

[koshari]

No you couldn’t.

Agreed, Pauley Ahern looked a million dollars in his first game for us, but 1 swallow dont make a spring, also we havnt got any decent talls in the calibre of Mckernan/Capuano and Keenen/McCann. Souva goes well as a tall fwd but look at the extra options we had in those other eras.

 

[guapo]

Agreed, Pauley Ahern looked a million dollars in his first game for us, but 1 swallow dont make a spring, also we havnt got any decent talls in the calibre of Mckernan/Capuano and Keenen/McCann. Souva goes well as a tall fwd but look at the extra options we had in those other eras.

Take another read dude. I listed 5 guys who could all be top 30 in the comp within 2 years, and 5 more who have massive potential.

Your response - some random rot about Paul Ahern (who exactly are you comparing him to in my 5?), and 4 blokes of which 1 was a superstar, 2 were role players and the other was Keenan.


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[guapo]

No you couldn’t.

Impressive rebuttal man


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[The Talent Scout]

Next year this thread will be obsolete, the reason for this is:

 

[gustaaf]

Next year this thread will be obsolete, the reason for this is:

Oh God, we'll be on a treadmill going nowhere. Say it ain't so.

 

[Gasometer]

Oh God, we'll be on a treadmill going nowhere. Say it ain't so.

With a balloon for a head, no facial features and naked!

 

[Gasometer]

Take another read dude. I listed 5 guys who could all be top 30 in the comp within 2 years, and 5 more who have massive potential.

Your response - some random rot about Paul Ahern (who exactly are you comparing him to in my 5?), and 4 blokes of which 1 was a superstar, 2 were role players and the other was Keenan.


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The point K is making is that all we have atm is a list of potential

Comparing this potential to achievement is impossible because like Paul Ahern, the potential may not ever eventuste

 

[Mixed Results]

FB: Hayden, McKay, EVW
HB: Perez, ???, McDonald,
C: Scott, Anderson, Dumont
HF: Thomas, Comben, Walker,
FF: Zurhaar, Larkey, Mahony
R: Xerri, Simpkin, LDU

This was my projected 2024 team that I posted back in Sep 2020. From a talent and list perspective, this was our rock bottom.

It was a pretty grim future that we were looking ahead at, as many of these players I correctly speculated would be delisted before we'd even get to 2024. We still had players like Higgins, Cunnington, Goldstein, Tarrant, and Thompson leading the way, but only a handful of players you'd have bet on to still be around at this point.

If you project forward another few years now to 2028, the outlook is a lot more positive.

FB: Bergman, Logue, Hardeman
HB: Goater, W. Dawson, Sheezel
C: Scott, Wardlaw, Simpkin
HF: Thomas, George, Ford
FF: Zurhaar, Larkey, Duursma
R: Goad, LDU, McKercher
Int: Phillips, Comben, Powell, Curtis

Dawson would be the youngest in that side at 22, and Simpkin the oldest at 30.

With another four coming offseasons to boost the squad and fill the gaps, that's already a strong lineup. Now, not all of these players will come on as expected, but it's an excellent base to build a side that's hopefully in premiership contention by this point. As opposed to 2020, when Curtis Taylor

5

Curtis Taylor

Age

24

Ht

188cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

was basically the only player I left out, there also are plenty of names like Fisher, Stephens, Archer, and Xerri, who are stiff to have missed out.

 

[guapo]

The point K is making is that all we have atm is a list of potential

Comparing this potential to achievement is impossible because like Paul Ahern, the potential may not ever eventuste

Yep, and the original post said precisely that - comparable talent and potential to the great eras albeit nobody at Carey/Blight levels.

Obviously no achievements, but in the context of this rock bottom thread my point was we should expect a quick rise.

12 players on the list picked in the top 10. We’ve not had that breadth of top end talent in the draft era, even if only half reach their potential we should see vastly improved results.

Anyway, let’s dwell on the failure of the punt we took in trading pick 69 on a bloke who’d had a double ACL before he’d played 10 games. No point being bullish about Harry, George, Colby, Zane, or even LDU, TT, Souv, etc etc


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[koshari]

Take another read dude. I listed 5 guys who could all be top 30 in the comp within 2 years, and 5 more who have massive potential.

Your response - some random rot about Paul Ahern (who exactly are you comparing him to in my 5?), and 4 blokes of which 1 was a superstar, 2 were role players and the other was Keenan.


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i did and i still see no the rucks calibre of Mckernan/Capuano and Keenen/McCann. i dont disagree there is a lot of potential but comparing it against established complete lists on successful periods is absurd

 

[Epictetus]

FB: Hayden, McKay, EVW
HB: Perez, ???, McDonald,
C: Scott, Anderson, Dumont
HF: Thomas, Comben, Walker,
FF: Zurhaar, Larkey, Mahony
R: Xerri, Simpkin, LDU

This was my projected 2024 team that I posted back in Sep 2020. From a talent and list perspective, this was our rock bottom.

It was a pretty grim future that we were looking ahead at, as many of these players I correctly speculated would be delisted before we'd even get to 2024. We still had players like Higgins, Cunnington, Goldstein, Tarrant, and Thompson leading the way, but only a handful of players you'd have bet on to still be around at this point.

If you project forward another few years now to 2028, the outlook is a lot more positive.

FB: Bergman, Logue, Hardeman
HB: Goater, W. Dawson, Sheezel
C: Scott, Wardlaw, Simpkin
HF: Thomas, George, Ford
FF: Zurhaar, Larkey, Duursma
R: Goad, LDU, McKercher
Int: Phillips, Comben, Powell, Curtis

Dawson would be the youngest in that side at 22, and Simpkin the oldest at 30.

With another four coming offseasons to boost the squad and fill the gaps, that's already a strong lineup. Now, not all of these players will come on as expected, but it's an excellent base to build a side that's hopefully in premiership contention by this point. As opposed to 2020, when Curtis Taylor was basically the only player I left out, there also are plenty of names like Fisher, Stephens, Archer, and Xerri, who are stiff to have missed out.

I really like the optimism - and clearly there are some young players with better junior CV's than the previous side simply by virtue of their draft positions - but 6 of them haven't played a game and you could argue more than half the side hasn't shown enough for anyone to be certain of anything.

This is the nature of projections hooked in with emotional bias and lots of hope. It's a group of relatively high draft picks and some players that have shown glimpses and some players that are definitely good enough. That's all it is.