Opinion Is this rock bottom?

[Marstermind]

Let's be real it's been like this for most of our history other than a couple of decades.

Perennial battlers on struggle street. It can be a very difficult cycle to permanently break. We either go the way of Geelong and Hawthorn and turn it around or go full St Kilda.

I don't fully agree, but in the bad times as perennial battlers, at least we friggin battled!

This mob don't. I just got home from work - my cavoodle when I walk in the door can't roll over as quick as these blokes. They are completely insipid. No one shows any leadership. No one looks to be demanding anything more from themselves or each other. No one bowls an opponent over or even starts some niggle. No one even looks pissed off that they are such losers. Players make the same mistakes over and over - not just quarter by quarter, but year by year. On the rare occasion they play well and get on top, they collectively panic, shit the bed and risk losing, often successfully. Each week they trot into quarter time huddles and it's bum pats all round. At the end of the game they bow their heads and drag their sorry arses off the ground. But nothing ever changes. Noble, as poor as he was, gave them a spray once and lost them forever. Clarko apparently did last week and they respond with a 16-goal loss.

I hear stories of the crap North teams from before I was born and they speak of tough campaigners who knew they were on struggle street but embraced the struggle - Shinboners! The whole joint now just reeks of accepting mediocrity, poor leadership and loser mentality. I have no confidence that anything will change soon.

 

[danj]

I don't fully agree, but in the bad times as perennial battlers, at least we friggin battled!

This mob don't. I just got home from work - my cavoodle when I walk in the door can't roll over as quick as these blokes. They are completely insipid. No one shows any leadership. No one looks to be demanding anything more from themselves or each other. No one bowls an opponent over or even starts some niggle. No one even looks pissed off that they are such losers. Players make the same mistakes over and over - not just quarter by quarter, but year by year. On the rare occasion they play well and get on top, they collectively panic, shit the bed and risk losing, often successfully. Each week they trot into quarter time huddles and it's bum pats all round. At the end of the game they bow their heads and drag their sorry arses off the ground. Noble, as poor as he was, gave them a spray once and lost them forever. Clarko apparently did last week and they respond with a 16-goal loss.

I hear stories of the crap North teams from before I was born and they speak of tough campaigners who knew they were on struggle street but embraced the struggle - Shinboners! The whole joint now just reeks of accepting mediocrity, poor leadership and loser mentality. I have no confidence that anything will change soon.

And none them have a property portfolio to speak of, what the **** are they up to

 

[the_cleaner]

Sam Mitchell has developed a very strong culture already at Hawks.

Plus he’s involved with everything, the draft, what players they should be going for, fitness and way more involved than other coaches.

pretty much lives and breathes it. he did a podcast with will schofield which was a great listen. he breaks it down where it’s not just the 22 players he has to chat with during the week and game day. it’s the entire squad, assistant coaches, fitness team etc which adds up to nearly 100 people in his estimate and how everyone has gotta be on the same page to achieve the same goal.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Nothing slow about it.
*2018 we beat the eventual premiers by 40 points, finish with 12 wins (six losses under 3 goals)
*2019 we beat the eventual premiers by 37 points, finish with 10 wins (five losses under 3 goals) and a Pies player (Pendles if memory serves?) apparently rated us as the toughest side to play against
*2020 now is the winter of discontent

Maybe it's because of sensitivity around Shaw leaving citing mental health issues, but I'm honestly staggered Brad Scott gets all the blame, and Rhyce Shaw doesn't absolutely cop it on here, whatever he did during his tenure, our culture has been in the toilet ever since.

How can it be half a decade and I still havent heard anyone use the phrase "short arse, cue ball headed, milk bottle scoffing bast*rd". Not even once.

It depends on what you view as slow.

Laidley came in and we made a few finals, somehow a prelim with a pretty ordinary list while Archer/Simpson/Grant/Harvey were all around the 30+ age. And a youngish Dish/Spud/Wells as support. But we were really just playing to survive as a club. Some awful trade moves thrown in along the way with some Hawk rejects.

Then Brad comes in 2009 and made the point about changing our brand - the shinboner spirit. Yet during his reign we consistently fail to beat sides we should which costs us multiple top 4 spots and home finals. When we start a year 9-0 he says 12 wins is the goal. He goes on to breed a culture of losing as an inevitability when the game is less than a goal. Yeah we beat the odd top 4 side but that's what a team in no man's land does, they may jag an upset here or there but also drop the ball against shit sides. Very similar to St Kilda now actually.

Reece avoids the blame probably because he barely coached a season's worth.

 

[Uncle_Leo]

I often lay awake at night wondering what a double pronged attack of Will Walker

27

Will Walker

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

4star

CL

0.8

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

4star

CL

0.8

3star

and Eddie Ford could produce

**** me dead

 

[Cyber_punk]

I don't fully agree, but in the bad times as perennial battlers, at least we friggin battled!

This mob don't. I just got home from work - my cavoodle when I walk in the door can't roll over as quick as these blokes. They are completely insipid. No one shows any leadership. No one looks to be demanding anything more from themselves or each other. No one bowls an opponent over or even starts some niggle. No one even looks pissed off that they are such losers. Players make the same mistakes over and over - not just quarter by quarter, but year by year. On the rare occasion they play well and get on top, they collectively panic, shit the bed and risk losing, often successfully. Each week they trot into quarter time huddles and it's bum pats all round. At the end of the game they bow their heads and drag their sorry arses off the ground. But nothing ever changes. Noble, as poor as he was, gave them a spray once and lost them forever. Clarko apparently did last week and they respond with a 16-goal loss.

I hear stories of the crap North teams from before I was born and they speak of tough campaigners who knew they were on struggle street but embraced the struggle - Shinboners! The whole joint now just reeks of accepting mediocrity, poor leadership and loser mentality. I have no confidence that anything will change soon.

Brad wanted the Shinboner spirit brand gone. He got his wish.

You could always tell Archer/Stevo/Harvey etc passed on to Spud/Petrie/Wells that losing to * was something to get angry about and to avoid at all costs. You could feel it a bit with Cunners and Ziebs too. Now it just feels like it's "oh well, we tried, maybe another day. Jolly good game"

I really hope these guys take each loss personally as players of the past would. But it doesn't look like it.

 

[the_cleaner]

Brad wanted the Shinbonenr spirit brand gone. He got his wish.

You could always tell Archer/Stevo/Harvey etc passed on to Spud/Petrie/Wells that losing to * was something to get angry about and to avoid at all costs. You could feel it a bit with Cunners and Ziebs too. Now it just feels like it's "oh well, we tried, maybe another day. Jolly good game"

I really hope these guys take each loss personally as players of the past would. But it doesn't look like it.

they definitely dont. was sitting on level 2 with most of the reserve side off to the left of me during the 3rd quarter. smiles and laughs all round, texting on the phone and enjoying the match. not one **** given!

 

[Gasometer]

pretty much lives and breathes it. he did a podcast with will schofield which was a great listen. he breaks it down where it’s not just the 22 players he has to chat with during the week and game day. it’s the entire squad, assistant coaches, fitness team etc which adds up to nearly 100 people in his estimate and how everyone has gotta be on the same page to achieve the same goal.

Wow

Who’d a thought a person in a people industry would talk to people in his Club?

 

[Gasometer]

I often lay awake at night wondering what a double pronged attack of Will Walker and Eddie Ford could produce

**** me dead

 

[the_cleaner]

Wow

Who’d a thought a person in a people industry would talk to people in his Club?

was just explaining that his job is beyond what happens for 2 hours on a weekend. he could leave it to the assistants to liaise with the fitness staff but instead wants to be as hands on as possible.

 

[Gasometer]

was just explaining that his job is beyond what happens for 2 hours on a weekend. he could leave it to the assistants to liaise with the fitness staff but instead wants to be as hands on as possible.

And?

What’s the link to our plight?

 

[ApplecrossWC]

Win 14 games, finish 6th, win two finals, lose the prelim by 13 goals. It was awesome, aye? 36 year old Boomer our best player, 32 year old Dal Santo our next on a paycheck, Levi Greenwood and Sam Greenwood our stars of the engine room of 2014.

You seriously prefer now compared to that?

 

[the_cleaner]

And?

What’s the link to our plight?

fmd go read my other posts, not gonna sit here and explain it again.

 

[Themanbun]

Sam Mitchell has developed a very strong culture already at Hawks.

Plus he’s involved with everything, the draft, what players they should be going for, fitness and way more involved than other coaches.

Said it a while back when he was first appointed but he's the best coach in the business IMO.

 

[Zondor]

I loved Choppy and Winnie, they were two of my favourite North players ever, but lets not pretend they were Darren Jarman or Andrew McLeod, particularly Winnie.

You are extracting the urine defining those guys as superstars, they were to North fans, but not the competition.

Most North fans would describe Cunners the same way.


Larkey kicked 70 goals last season. Whilst he's certainly not Carey, is he as good as McKernan? He's certainly a better than a clapped out Horse with his knee's gone. Corey's best season was 40 goals playing as a ruck/forward, I think sometimes we act like he was Carey (and he was for about 2 minutes before injury) when in reality he had 2-3 absolute top line seasons, with the rest nowhere near the level you are describing.

Who were our other superstars you are describing? Arch, Mick, Stevo, Kingy? I don't think any of them ever fit into the "superstar" category you are describing. North was often described as Carey vs the rest, getting those teams to flags on his back. It was bullshit of course, but an indication of where some of the others sat.

It was an extremely even team with one of the best players in history spearheading it.

The likes of Sheezel, LDU, Wardlaw, Larkey, Comben, Xerri, McKercher - possibly even Powell and Logue would have absolutely walked into that side back then.

Sheezel, Wardlaw, LDU, McKercher will be right up there with the stars of those sides when they are done.

Or do we just ignore the fact that the likes of Evan Hewett, Brett Chandler, Robert Scott, Brady Anderson, Anthony Mellington etc played a ton of football in those dominant sides? They had plenty of average players in them, like every premiership side.

If you can't see our top end talent at the moment has more potential than any time since that era, well, you must be watching with your eyes shut.

LOL. What Nonsense! Firstly I brought up both Abraham and Pickett because they both had speed, were great kicks of the football and could win yah a game. Who in our current line up has those attributes? King had speed and was a decent kick. Blakey was a raking kick and could run. Pike had dash. Schwass also was quick and could kick. There is currently no comparison. It’s why the team of the 90s played final after final. As juniors a fair chunk of them won flag after flag. 2 players in our current line up have polish. Sheezel and McKercher. LDU has a burst from a pack and can win a ball but his kicking. Wardlaw’s attack and want for the ball is first class but his kicking. The skill level of our current list pales into insignificance to that of the team of the 90s. We simply do not have enough talent for the pain that we’ve gone through. We are a fair way away. A 1,000 Miles away. We lack line breaking speed. Long raking kicks that hit targets. Big Dudes that can take a contested mark down the line. Small forwards like Allison and Abraham that were quick and kicked goals. Stop with your horseshit defence of the indefensible. The truth is staring you in the face. :stern look

 

[Uncle_Leo]

Wow

Who’d a thought a person in a people industry would talk to people in his Club?

We had a coach for nearly 2 years who hardly spoke to anyone

 

[Gasometer]

Another week of Hawthorn envy…that’s what fmd means

 

[ferball]

Your distorted view of reality is entertaining. The truth is staring you in the face yet you choose to ignore it. Excuse away the incompetence of the last 5 years with dribble and nonsense. It won’t change the Butchery of our List Management that has resulted in the worst North Melbourne team we have seen in our lifetime. That’s a fact that can’t be denied by any sensible individual. Only an apologist or a fool would think otherwise. :stern look

My distorted view of reality? Okay mate whatever...

Honestly I don't even care if we sack Brady for a better option. I just think its ridiculous to always put everything on one person the way you are doing.

Have you forgotten the way we'd constantly defend our list against nearly every AFL commentator in the land when they'd say we had the worst list in the comp in the years 2017-2020? I haven't. That's why i don't think what you are saying stacks up. 2020 proved those bastards right.

Since 2020 we've slowly improved the quality of the list against a while heap of difficulties. Now its starting to resemble a side with proper structure - a spine, mids, flankers and even small forwards ... altho you refuse to acknowledge that's what they are so you can bang on about how we don't have any.

WE sacked Brad Scott and ended up with a coach who went mental. We replaced him with a coach who appears to have been a ****en idiot and when we finally got a half decent coach in the door his whole world fell on his head like a ton of bricks. We had a disinterested executive, a dysfunctional footy department and several players who were obviously toxic to the group, all the way back to 2020. The good players we had were too young or too old. Very few in that age group we need now 27 - 32. Very few years ago when that cohort would have been 24 - 29.

So as far as I'm concerned those reasons I just listed have more to do with why we are in the shit we are in now than Brady ****ing Rawlings.

But whatever man. Its your life, think what you like if it helps you deal with the shit we keep serving up.

 

[ferball]

One Superstar. Got it. So who are our other current Superstars? Where is our Abraham? Our Pickett? Guys i mentioned previously that could all turn a game into our favour? McKercher has line breaking speed and can kick. He is about the only other guy who u can see can become a gun. We need more players that can run and kick. We need more players that can clunk a contested mark and kick a long goal. This current list is littered with holes. Lack of Small Forwards, Quality Talls, Runners with good kicking skills. The midfield mix is wrong. LDU the only dude with size. Sheezel a close second. But the rest Munchkin City. The truth is eyeballing you in the face yet you’re not eyeballing the truth back but blinking feverishly like The Artichoke on his 5th Kahlúa & Midori. :stern look

The core of that 90s side played together since they were 16-19 years old and finally won a flag in their mid/late 20s. Under the same coach who had coached the side since they were kids. It will never happen again.

 

[Gasometer]

My distorted view of reality? Okay mate whatever...

Honestly I don't even care if we sack Brady for a better option. I just think its ridiculous to always put everything on one person the way you are doing.

Have you forgotten the way we'd constantly defend our list against nearly every AFL commentator in the land when they'd say we had the worst list in the comp in the years 2017-2020? I haven't. That's why i don't think what you are saying stacks up. 2020 proved those bastards right.

Since 2020 we've slowly improved the quality of the list against a while heap of difficulties. Now its starting to resemble a side with proper structure - a spine, mids, flankers and even small forwards ... altho you refuse to acknowledge that's what they are so you can bang on about how we don't have any.

WE sacked Brad Scott and ended up with a coach who went mental. We replaced him with a coach who appears to have been a ****en idiot and when we finally got a half decent coach in the door his whole world fell on his head like a ton of bricks. We had a disinterested executive, a dysfunctional footy department and several players who were obviously toxic to the group, all the way back to 2020. The good players we had were too young or too old. Very few in that age group we need now 27 - 32. Very few years ago when that cohort would have been 24 - 29.

So as far as I'm concerned those reasons I just listed have more to do with why we are in the shit we are in now than Brady ****ing Rawlings.

But whatever man. Its your life, think what you like if it helps you deal with the shit we keep serving up.

I can remember the uproar on here when Fat Hutch suggested that our List was a cliff about to happen in 2016

I was one of those in uproar

He ended up right

 

[ferball]

Nothing slow about it.
*2018 we beat the eventual premiers by 40 points, finish with 12 wins (six losses under 3 goals)
*2019 we beat the eventual premiers by 37 points, finish with 10 wins (five losses under 3 goals) and a Pies player (Pendles if memory serves?) apparently rated us as the toughest side to play against
*2020 now is the winter of discontent

Maybe it's because of sensitivity around Shaw leaving citing mental health issues, but I'm honestly staggered Brad Scott gets all the blame, and Rhyce Shaw doesn't absolutely cop it on here, whatever he did during his tenure, our culture has been in the toilet ever since.

How can it be half a decade and I still havent heard anyone use the phrase "short arse, cue ball headed, milk bottle scoffing bast*rd". Not even once.

Its not just Shaw. That whole 2020 season was a nightmare. I remember thinking to myself afterward that this was like Adelaide after their camp.

 

[ferball]

I can remember the uproar on here when Fat Hutch suggested that our List was a cliff about to happen in 2016

I was one of those in uproar

He ended up right

Yep. It sucks but its better to acknowledge it eventually than spend your life in denial.

 

[ferball]

Sam Mitchell has developed a very strong culture already at Hawks.

Plus he’s involved with everything, the draft, what players they should be going for, fitness and way more involved than other coaches.

He's basically Clarkson again.

 

[ferball]

I often lay awake at night wondering what a double pronged attack of Will Walker and Eddie Ford could produce

**** me dead

Eddie Ford was pick 56 ffs and one of the last players taken in the draft. if you want to beat yourself up over draft picks there are way better options.

 

[ferball]

In all seriouslyness....if you think our list management has been anywhere near acceptable....then you may actually be Brady. Lol

So what would you have done differently?