Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[BFew]

Israel sees an existential threat based on what Hamas did October 7.

And it's reported that many if not the majority of Israeli's blame the Netanyahu Government for not preventing it happening, or being warned that something like this could happen, and for all those tunnels under Gaza being built under its (the Netanyahu Governments) watch.

 

[BFew]

It doesn't matter anyway whether you or I think the idea of an existential threat is ridiculous, if they think it's real.

Collective paranoia?

 

[leon123]

To be fair, I had notifications.

I wish life was fair, if it was, there wouldnt be so many innocent people killed by the idf.... fair, dont mention fair

 

[QuietB]

Yeah, I think they probably could. Look at what they did simply by knocking out a communications tower and rushing through a hole in a fence with less than 5% of their disposable fighters. Then there's the fallout from Israel's response, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Turkey gobbing off and Iran.

It doesn't matter anyway whether you or I think the idea of an existential threat is ridiculous, if they think it's real.

So even if that is true, does it justify genocide? Does anything justify genocide?

 

[Kurve]

Nothing about what Israel are doing is sustainable.
I can't see how any of this good for Jews.
Listening to Israeli politicians is actually quite scary, the language they use, the dehumanisation, the hatred.

I know that many Jews have been killed in the conflict and it's much easier sitting on the sideline commenting without direct family affected, but I just can't imagine any other group of people getting away with this. They are just so confident nobody will interfere.
Someone earlier in the thread visualised the IDF as being tens of thousands of Avi Yemini's, that's exactly how I picture them.

Of course it's not sustainable and none of it is good for Jews outside of Israel.

They're not tens of thousands of Avi Yemini's, most of them are young reservists who have never seen conflict before, are scared witless and have nfi what they're doing. imo.

They shot three hostages.

When I look at the list of who the IDF have lost already, their youth is what stands out. One was a corporal and he was only 19yo.

 

[Blue1980]

Yeah, I think they probably could. Look at what they did simply by knocking out a communications tower and rushing through a hole in a fence with less than 5% of their disposable fighters. Then there's the fallout from Israel's response, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Turkey gobbing off and Iran.

It doesn't matter anyway whether you or I think the idea of an existential threat is ridiculous, if they think it's real.

So IF they think its real (they don't) that means they can bomb Gaza with impunity?

With US and the whole western world in lockstep with Israel, nothing short of WWIII somehow manifesting would threaten Israel's existence.

 

[leon123]

Of course it's not sustainable and none of it is good for Jews outside of Israel.

They're not tens of thousands of Avi Yemini's, most of them are young reservists who have never seen conflict before, are scared witless and have nfi what they're doing. imo.

They shot three hostages.

When I look at the list of who the IDF have lost already, their youth is what stands out. One was a corporal and he was only 19yo.

A question, i know you wont answer, thats how you roll. You look at the list of idf soldiers that have been killed that are young, a side point they are military. Do you do the same for children in gaza who are not military and maybe death estimates at 5000 plus

 

[Kurve]

So IF they think its real (they don't) that means they can bomb Gaza with impunity?

Here we go again, this is why I checked out last time.

Yes, many people in Israel view what happened on October 7 as an existential threat. Whether or not that plays in to Netanyahu's ambitions is irrelevant if that's what they feel.

Hamas on October 7 ticked all the boxes for a genocidal attack, they have openly and repeatedly said they will do it again and again until Israel and it's people are destroyed.

 

[leon123]

Here we go again, this is why I checked out last time.

Yes, many people in Israel view what happened on October 7 as an existential threat. Whether or not that plays in to Netanyahu's ambitions is irrelevant if that's what they feel.

Hamas on October 7 ticked all the boxes for a genocidal attack, they have openly and repeatedly said they will do it again and again until Israel and it's people are destroyed.

I thought it was because you had notifications.... which is it, facts appear fluid for you

 

[Boston tiger]

So IF they think its real (they don't) that means they can bomb Gaza with impunity?

With US and the whole western world in lockstep with Israel, nothing short of WWIII somehow manifesting would threaten Israel's existence.

So do you factor in 1600 civilian loses a year and just get on with your free and democratic life ?

 

[Kurve]

Do you do the same for children in gaza who are not military and maybe death estimates at 5000 plus

Obviously trolling me over dead children to try and get an emotional reaction

 

[leon123]

Obviously trolling me over dead children to try and get an emotional reaction

Pathetic, if trolling is stating facts then, im a troll, but if stating facts is not trolling what does it make you

 

[PenskeFile]

Of course it's not sustainable and none of it is good for Jews outside of Israel.

They're not tens of thousands of Avi Yemini's, most of them are young reservists who have never seen conflict before, are scared witless and have nfi what they're doing. imo.

They shot three hostages.

When I look at the list of who the IDF have lost already, their youth is what stands out. One was a corporal and he was only 19yo.

I get that there are many young reservists who will scared out of their brains. Avi is on camera boasting of shooting a Palestinian kid in the head who threw a stone at him, there does seem to be quite a few examples of this (definitely not tens of thousands though).

I just find the mindset of a large chunk of Israeli's alarming, from the politicians down to everyday citizens. The language used and the genuine belief they are superior human beings.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

All of us want to eliminate Hamas. It's just that some understand that the only way to eliminate a violent emancipatory extremist group is through the elimination of the oppressive conditions and apartheid state the people live under. A fact backed up by countless historical examples.

Those that bothsides the illegal occupation are complicit in the ethnic cleansing and give justification to the actions of the state of Israel. This does nothing to eliminate Hamas or to stop harm to Palestinians or Israelis.

Anyone that truly cared about Palestinians and Israelis and weren't being disingenuous would turn their full attention to fighting for a Free Palestine and putting pressure on our government to fully withdraw support of the US and Israel until Palestinians are free.

 

[ferball]

So Hamas hasn’t held elections for safety reasons ?

Dunno.

Do Did they have the infrastructure to hold elections in Gaza?

 

[leon123]

All of us want to eliminate Hamas. It's just that some understand that the only way to eliminate a violent emancipatory extremist group is through the elimination of the oppressive conditions and apartheid state the people live under. A fact backed up by countless historical examples.

Those that bothsides the illegal occupation are complicit in the ethnic cleansing and give justification to the actions of the state of Israel. This does nothing to eliminate Hamas or to stop harm to Palestinians or Israelis.

Anyone that truly cared about Palestinians and Israelis and weren't being disingenuous would turn their full attention to fighting for a Free Palestine and putting pressure on our government to fully withdraw support of the US and Israel until Palestinians are free.

That is a very balanced and considered perspective... thankyou

 

[Kurve]

Pathetic, if trolling is stating facts then, im a troll, but if stating facts is not trolling what does it make you

It was a grubby sarcastic troll posed as a question.

 

[leon123]

It was a grubby sarcastic troll posed as a question.

No it wasnt, that is your interpretation, it says more about you than i

 

[Blue1980]

So do you factor in 1600 civilian loses a year and just get on with your free and democratic life ?

How about, now this may seem crazy, but actually target Hamas leadership via special military operations.

So BEFORE October 7, the deaths were 6407 Palestinians v 308 Israelis for the last 15 years. But I guess Palestinians just need to factor that in. Also October 7 was 695 Israeli civilians, I thought it was Palestine who made up numbers....

Chart: 6,407 Palestinians and 308 Israelis Killed in Violence in Last 15 Years

So far, there have been over 1,200 fatalities on either side of the border following the latest bout of violence between Israel and Hamas.

thewire.in

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Heading off into fantasy land over some impossible scheme for what ?

This conversation wasn't about the practicalities of it, but the benefits.

Israel is a free democratic country.

As others have established, only for Jews.

And basically the whole Middle East isn’t ….

So?

 

[Blue1980]

Here we go again, this is why I checked out last time.

Yes, many people in Israel view what happened on October 7 as an existential threat. Whether or not that plays in to Netanyahu's ambitions is irrelevant if that's what they feel.

Hamas on October 7 ticked all the boxes for a genocidal attack, they have openly and repeatedly said they will do it again jand again until Israel and it's people are destroyed.

Genocidal attack? was 9/11 a genocidal attack too? Hamas have no way of achieving these aims. Al Quada would of wanted to wipe out the US, doesn't mean there was a genocidal threat on the US. Thing is Israel should do special opps to get rid of Hamas, but that isn't their real aim, anyone denying that is either very dim or acting in bad faith.

They can feel however they want to feel, many people want retribution after they have been wronged, but collective punishment with 24k deaths vs maybe a bit over 1k deaths, to go with the 6407 v 308 deaths for the previous 15 years, seems like the going rate is 1 Israeli life = 20+ Palestinian lives.

Meanwhile while you claim Israel are terrifed of genocide, they are actually the ones doing genocide in real time.

 

[Blue1980]

Obviously trolling me over dead children to try and get an emotional reaction

How is that trolling, just engage in the debate in good faith. How is talking about Palestinian deaths just trying to get an emotive reaction? Do they not matter? Just cost of war?

 

[Boston tiger]

How about, now this may seem crazy, but actually target Hamas leadership via special military operations.

So BEFORE October 7, the deaths were 6407 Palestinians v 308 Israelis for the last 15 years. But I guess Palestinians just need to factor that in. Also October 7 was 695 Israeli civilians, I thought it was Palestine who made up numbers....

Chart: 6,407 Palestinians and 308 Israelis Killed in Violence in Last 15 Years

So far, there have been over 1,200 fatalities on either side of the border following the latest bout of violence between Israel and Hamas.

thewire.in

In 15 years prior Palestine had killed 308 Israelis.
In one day they killed 1200.
Target Leadership and wait for the next one ?

 

[Boston tiger]

This conversation wasn't about the practicalities of it, but the benefits.


As others have established, only for Jews.


So?

What would the benefits be ? Palestine want the destruction of Israel.

 

[BFew]

Palestine want the destruction of Israel.

There is no country currently called Palestine.