It's time to go: John Barker

[HawkMongrel]

I remember once upon a time we had two highly skilled, strong, fast and athletic fowards that would lead to the ball and take many marks and kick many goals.

What has happened since 2008 to change this? Barker rolled up.

They are playing how he used to play, Franklin is more skilled than Roughead so he can pull it off but Roughy is struggling badly. It seems they are being taught to stay at home and take their players on, and are getting beaten doing it.

Towards the end of the game today Roughead started leading and taking marks, not kicking goals admittedly, but he got into the game by presenting for the ball rather than just standing there and waiting for it to come to him.

I blame Barker. I loved that guy as a player, he was a cult hero but he's no good as a coach and I want to see him out on his arse ASAP.

 

[Philhawk]

Like.

It's just disgraceful how ineffective our two star talls are made to look by our structure.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Yea i agree. The structure has been rubbish this year and last. It doesn't function well and its taken our 2 potent forwards out of the area they are so dangerous in.

 

[lyndhurst]

Congrats on being about the 300th person to post these sentiments, but infact it is pretty timely.

Nice bloke, I am sure. Once even kicked 45 goals in a season himself...

Ever since he swapped clubs, our forward line has looked lost and structureless. When we have been travelling well, fantastic individual efforts by freaky players have got us to winning scores ie Franklin, Rioli, Osborne, etc, but the overall structure has never been the same since he graced us with his presence.

The overall totals kicked by our two superstars have dropped off. Everyone tends to focus on the effect on 23, but poor old Roughy has looked like a dog ever since Jonnie B took the reigns.

The whole approach from the bench looks a little like a one trick pony at the moment. Granted that those in charge of our defensive half dont have much to work with, but our current forward line is as good on paper as virtually any since the great days of the Brissie Lions, yet we struggle to kick winning scores

I have heard the scratched record routine about poor delivery from the mid field over and over, but they are simply not that bad that they could blunt our forward line

Got to look at the bloke with his hands on the wheel

Cheerio John.

 

[markr]

Perhaps if Clarkson allowed our forwards to play in the forward line Barker would have more to work with?

 

[Davo23]

LOL funny thread, boys !

 

[ilmc]

I'm still not understanding the need for an empty forward-line. How many times was there a clearing kick out of our defensive 50 only to find 6 Demons on their own? And I lost count how many times we keep having to hold up because no-one's in the forward 50.

 

[Bosk]

It's just disgraceful how ineffective our two star talls are made to look by our structure.

 

[PottSie2]

Perhaps if Clarkson allowed our forwards to play in the forward line Barker would have more to work with?

So what is Barker's role then? A yes man? Shouldn't a forwards coach have input into the forward structure?

Didn't help today when Buddy dropped 2 easy chest marks.

Haven't rated Barker since he came over. Don't know if he was highly rated at St. Kilda?

 

[Glebehawk]

seems to me that ever since buddy kicked those two running goals against essendon...clarko reckons this is how we should structure ourselves.

Leave a paddock behind Buddy so that he can run onto the ball and burn off defenders. Freak goals only happen once every few games...its hardly a reliable structure.

In fact our forward structure today was a disgrace...what are we the Swans?

 

[macdaddio]

I'm still not understanding the need for an empty forward-line. How many times was there a clearing kick out of our defensive 50 only to find 6 Demons on their own? And I lost count how many times we keep having to hold up because no-one's in the forward 50.

I just dont understand it, we could blow sides away but we got no one to kick it to once we move it foward, so so frustrating to watch...

Also watching the Dee move the ball quick down the centre and watching us fart around with it along the boundary lines is also frustrating to watch.

But hey we won so cant complain too much..

 

[Brant]

So what is Barker's role then? A yes man? Shouldn't a forwards coach have input into the forward structure?

Didn't help today when Buddy dropped 2 easy chest marks.

Haven't rated Barker since he came over. Don't know if he was highly rated at St. Kilda?

I would suggest that letting him go without renewing his contract shows what they thought of him; and their resurgence since he left is probably indicative of his output... (Coincides with our issue - but I think our problems are far more than just a forward coach.)

 

[Gene Simmons]

Our forward line resembles what it did in the late 90's/early 2000's.

Barker, Thompson, Holland, Lord.... looked good on paper but couldn't deliver!!

We have 2 key forwards who have proven they are capable of kicking 200+ goals between them in a season, and yet, we struggle to kick more than 15 goals in a game!!!

If Johnny Barker doesn't go at seasons end I will be very surprised

 

[Bosk]

Incidentally, next time you're watching a Hawks game I recommend playing the Benny Hill theme when the ball enters our forwardline.
It compliments the action perfectly!

 

[Snoref]

Can someone tell me who our forwards coach was in 2008?

 

[Gene Simmons]

Can someone tell me who our forwards coach was in 2008?

I believe it was Todd Viney.

 

[dipper86]

No doubt Barker has to be moved on, but Clarkson has to shoulder some of the blame, our game plan revolves around hitting the wings with stagnant stop start football.......sometimes our forward line has no one in it and other times it is crowded because we have to either wait for our forwards to run back into space/forward line or when we hang onto the ball with the stagnant crap that we have been dishing out all year, it gives time for the opposition to run back and crowd our forward line...from one extreme to an other, in contrast Melbourne plays through the corridor linking up hand ball and getting it in quick and fast to its forwards, i'd love to see the full stats, i bet there inside 50's to goals scored was a hell of a lot better than ours.

We are defiantly not playing to our strengths, and thats Clarksons fault.

 

[sociable hawk]

Our problem is that forwards have to move back to cover for poor backline. Always gunna be caught out of position until we recruit key backman. Gilham at best is 3rd backman, stratts and Gibbo can handle others but we need big full back to stop easy marks being taken against us. This is where i think the recruiting of Robbie Campbell could be used, not as much running so knees don't take a pounding and done a respectable job on hall last year.

 

[bigbuddyboy]

Our forward setup is actually sickening and I'm completely perplexed as to how these coaches can see every minute of every game, yet persist with this atrocious gameplan.

Someone has to go. If we don't make finals, it'd be clarko + a few friends. If we do make finals we at least need to get rid of Barker, and really push to get Dean Laidley as an assistant/gameday tactician + a decent forward coach (ivanhoe under 12's have got a pretty revolutionary forward setup, the two "big boys" will play at FF and CHF.. maybe we should try and poach their coach).

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Hey guys, just wanted to put my two cents in on this one. I think in 2008 people saw how dangerous Hawthorn were one on one deep inside 50, especially Roughy and Franklin. So many times the zone employed by the Hawks 2008 managed to cause turnovers and then bang it forward to the aformentioned who were allowed lots of space.

The zone isn't working as well anymore and the big problem I see with the Hawks is their teamwork, hands and general cleanliness inside 50 when the ball hits the deck. Not that Buddy and Roughhead aren't stars, but when the ball is in a pack situation, they are more likely to give away a free kick, or snap a ball out on the full then they are to give off a deft handball to Cyril who can snap a goal.

Forward line work is more important than just being able to jump, catch and kick. Good decisions under pressure are also important, slight taps to space, creating space, tackling pressure. Buddy and Roughy are not a good combination, because they are both so brilliant. Buddy would work better with a meat and veg style of big man, like Trav Cloke. Not saying Trav is better, it's just he is more workmanlike and reliable. He can do the boring things, buddy or roughy can catch fire.

A forward line full of potential stars who are enigmatic is susceptable to being shut down, it can also explode. This is why the Hawks are so dangerous and so disappointing sometimes. I know my points have focused on Buddy and Roughy, but it's not just them. Surounding them with Osborne, Rioli, Peterson, Hooper, these types only exacerbates the problem. An O'Keefe type would be perfect.

I think both Buddy and Roughy will improve in the intelligence stakes, but right now they are learning that there is more to football than just their physical gifts. Imagine Buddy or even Roughy with the brain of Hodge or Mitchell?? Very scary.

 

[lethalselbow]

Not going to bother reading thread, but why attack John Barker when he's an assistant? Surely the blame rests with the senior coach?? It's his team.

Logically, if you're attacking Barker, you're attacking Clarkson.

Not defending either, but something needs to change in 2011. We're a rabble.

 

[cyrilhawk33]

please please please get at least one foward to stay in our foward 50. even on the rare occasions we have a foward in our foward 50 they are 45m out and are always wrestling defenders. cant we just start our foward 10 m out an get them to LEAD and JUMP at a ball.
J. Barker has to go i thought that at the start of this yr and still think that now

 

[pipcoo]

The axe will fall on his head a year's end.
Claro will not be able to save him for the board will want him out.

 

[Linda Crescent]

Franklin and Roughead > Roughead and Franklin going for the same bit of ball in a pack! Hell, it's nerve wracking!

We put Melbourne away today, dinted their ego, whacked their dreams. Our pressure was constant, we didn't give up, again no finals for the blue and red! Well done Hawthorn.

 

[grizzlym]

The axe will fall on his head a year's end.
Claro will not be able to save him for the board will want him out.

That's like one of Nostradamus' quatrains.