Autopsy Round 17, 2023 : Hawks go down to Giants

[hawkinoz]

View attachment 1733075

As disappointed as I am with the result, you have to say we did pretty well against a much older and more experienced side.

Duke sums it up quite well, swings and roundabouts. Valuable experience for more rewarding times in future

 

[Cheersquad71]

Went to the game yesterday, one of the few I can get to living in Sydney. A few observations: Virtually none of the forwards looked like taking a mark. The delivery wasn't great but far too often the forwards were poorly positioned, out-manoeuvred, and simply pushed off the ball. There seemed to be little cohesion or confidence. Wingard did a few classy things but spends too much time complaining to umpires and arguing with team mates like Conor MacDonald. With Lewis completely outplayed, no-one provided any real presence or capacity to demand the ball and intimidate the GWS defence. There were several occasions when the mids were running forward with the ball with no-one running into space, offering leads that could be backed up for a second opportunity, or forcing the GWS defence to think very much. Having said that, some of the younger players looked great. Weddle will be a star and Day, despite his 2 clangers in the final quarter, oozes class. Reminds me a lot of a young Michael Tuck.

 

[Mississippi]

I was gobsmacked watching Will Day kicking for goal in the last quarter.

I can’t, for the life of me, understand why a professional class footballer, kicking for goal from 10 metres directly in front, would decide to run around to the right and effect a sideways kick which predictably slewed to the left of goal.
I bet that 95% of posters on this site would have kicked that goal in their civvies if given the chance.
Will Day can kick to a pinhead from 40 metres at training, but he missed a goal from point blank!!

Then later in the same quarter, from 35 metres on a slight angle, he ran in and angled to the right, which of course meant that the ball slewed to the left of goal. Another point.

Those 2 missed goals could potentially have lost the game.

My question is this. Do we have a goal kicking coach? If we don’t, why bloody not.
If we do, what in hell‘s name is he telling the players to do?

Peter Hudson once spoke a lot about how to kick for goal. So has Dunstall.
Someone once asked Huddo _ what advice can you give someone about kicking for goal?
He answered in 3 words - “Watch Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

Age

58

Ht

191cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.8

2star

M

6.3

5star

T

0.5

3star

G

4.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

”.

Both Huddo and Lockett had the perfect technique, which is so obvious. Walk a straight line into goal and focus on something directly behind the goals. And kick straight through the ball.

Leave the circus stuff for the boundary line (my words, not Huddo’s but I’ve sure he’d agree).

Does anyone know if we actually have a goal kicking coach?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Went to the game yesterday, one of the few I can get to living in Sydney. A few observations: Virtually none of the forwards looked like taking a mark. The delivery wasn't great but far too often the forwards were poorly positioned, out-manoeuvred, and simply pushed off the ball. There seemed to be little cohesion or confidence. Wingard did a few classy things but spends too much time complaining to umpires and arguing with team mates like Conor MacDonald. With Lewis completely outplayed, no-one provided any real presence or capacity to demand the ball and intimidate the GWS defence. There were several occasions when the mids were running forward with the ball with no-one running into space, offering leads that could be backed up for a second opportunity, or forcing the GWS defence to think very much. Having said that, some of the younger players looked great. Weddle will be a star and Day, despite his 2 clangers in the final quarter, oozes class. Reminds me a lot of a young Michael Tuck.

With regards to our forward line I have played in more cohesive East Gippsland Seconds forward lines where you didn't know the names of half of your team mates and most hadn't rocked up to a training session for a couple of months!

It's weird as our forward line was actually a relative strength last year but we have gone backwards big time in this area in 2023. For all the talk of poor delivery the Tigers won three preimeriships with grubber kicks into the F50 so that doesn't hold much dice with me.

Was Hale our forward coach last year? If so we need to get him back there for next year as we need some kind of cohesive approach to this part of the ground.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

I didn't see the game but just checked the stats.

Did Finn really keep Kelly to 6 disposals, whilst getting 15 himself?

He did and I reckon that game will go a long way to him retaining his spot on the list. Has flown under the radar a little at Box Hill as well - has racked up some big numbers playing as a mid. Really pleased to see him back in the team

 

[cryptor]

I was gobsmacked watching Will Day kicking for goal in the last quarter.

I can’t, for the life of me, understand why a professional class footballer, kicking for goal from 10 metres directly in front, would decide to run around to the right and effect a sideways kick which slewed to the right of goal.
I bet that 95% of posters on this site would have kicked that goal in their civvies if given the chance.
Will Day can kick to a pinhead from 40 metres at training, but he missed a goal from point blank!!

Then later in the same quarter, from 35 metres on a slight angle, he ran in and angled to the right, which of course meant that the ball slewed to the left of goal. Another point.

Those 2 missed goals could potentially have lost the game.

My question is this. Do we have a kicking coach? If we don’t, why bloody not.
If we do, what in hell‘s name is he telling the players to do?

Peter Hudson once spoke a lot about how to kick for goal. So has Dunstall.
Someone once asked Huddo _ what advice can you give someone about kicking for goal?
He answered in 3 words - “Watch Tony Lockett”.

Both Huddo and Lockett had the perfect technique, which is so obvious. Walk a straight line into goal and focus on something directly behind the goals. And kick straight through the ball.

Leave the circus stuff for the boundary line (my words, not Huddo’s but I’ve sure he’d agree).

Does anyone know if we actually have a goal kicking coach?

Fatigue + adrenaline = brain fades

An expensive lesson but I'm sure next time he'll stop and think about just going back and making it count.

 

[Mr Lizard]

Having a hook/snap at it wasn't the problem, he just didn't compose himself first.

 

[Accipiter]

He did and I reckon that game will go a long way to him retaining his spot on the list. Has flown under the radar a little at Box Hill as well - has racked up some big numbers playing as a mid. Really pleased to see him back in the team

Finn will be really valuable when we are contending. No way in the world do I want to lose him unless we get a ridiculous offer for him.

 

[Brant]

He did and I reckon that game will go a long way to him retaining his spot on the list. Has flown under the radar a little at Box Hill as well - has racked up some big numbers playing as a mid. Really pleased to see him back in the team

Our midfield (team in general) isn't mature enough to carry a full-time tagger (IMO), but it's such a weapon, to be able to cancel the opposition's prime ball mover, whilst getting a bit yourself.

I'd love to hold onto him as I reckon he'll be very valuable to us post 2025.

 

[FB19]

I understand the positivity after 2 lacklustre performances but I thought we were incredibly lucky to be in the game at half time. I know we need patience as the investment in quality youth develops but my god some of the decisions and missed handballs aren’t country football standard. Day and Worpel great liked CMac Weddle Seamus Newk Wingard Blanck. Several others ok DGB needs a block of games forward and Sicily in for frost a game-changer. Impey has been awesome but unfortunately played his worst game in a long time and Hardwick is covering up poor form with high disposals; his decision making and disposal have been awful the last 3 weeks and he must put the barrel away it consistently comes straight back in for a goal.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

The thing that kills me about Reeves is for such a big man he gets corralled and turned in ruck contests which then limits where he can hit the ball to. He never dictates the contest he always looks for contact at boundary throw ins. He may get his hand to taps but a lot aren't to our plan. And it shits me that he never hits the ball forward as far as he can to break things up like the Big O does at Brisbane. That has to be in his repertoire. Some of his taps are as pure as you could hope for but at the moment they are really all he is contributing.

The around the ground stuff has become fatal for mine. You just can't be a man down on field when the ball is in play. His mobility is a real issue. Even when he is in the vicinity of a contest when he gets there he can't affect the contest to our advantage eg knock it front and square.

Does he get stronger at stoppages and more mobile? No doubt he will but it might be another 3 seasons before he is much more dependable. He is a long way off still. It's a hard watch at the moment his first month was below par in his development curve then he levelled up but wr haven't seen any further progress.

He's lucky Meek has been patchy.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I understand the positivity after 2 lacklustre performances but I thought we were incredibly lucky to be in the game at half time. I know we need patience as the investment in quality youth develops but my god some of the decisions and missed handballs aren’t country football standard. Day and Worpel great liked CMac Weddle Seamus Newk Wingard Blanck. Several others ok DGB needs a block of games forward and Sicily in for frost a game-changer. Impey has been awesome but unfortunately played his worst game in a long time and Hardwick is covering up poor form with high disposals; his decision making and disposal have been awful the last 3 weeks and he must put the barrel away it consistently comes straight back in for a goal.

Our first touch across the board is generally deplorable. So many fumbles and double grabbers. Scrims double grab overheads were embarrassing for a bloke with class. Denver should have sharked one off the pack and missed it. Finns handballs hitting the ground Frost style. Amon shanking kicks every week now amongst some precise ones.

It's at an unacceptable level. Is it the true calibre of our players or confidence? I guess the positive is we play at Marvel this week where there won't be any moisture as the smallest hint of it turns us to shit.

 

[Mississippi]

Fatigue + adrenaline = brain fades

An expensive lesson but I'm sure next time he'll stop and think about just going back and making it count.

Spare me !!
Fatigue / brain fade ?
10 metre out / point blank ? And time to compose and just slot it through?
Completely unacceptable.

Players are coached how to play defensively in the last 2 minutes of a game, how to keep possession or how to attack and win. Or how to move the ball from stoppages or how to do almost anything that relates to the game plan.

But is anyone actually telling them how to kick for goal? It’s fair question isn’t it because it’s the key to winning and losing.
Or is that the only part of the game where the players just do what they like?

 

[Topiary]

Lots of those would be passing it around the backline.

We are second last for contested marks. While being 4th last for marks inside 50.

Says it all !!

 

[bigmaxi]

Just finished the replay, we were in it till the last and kicked ourselves out of it, we lost the game. GWS are not that great, neither are we. We have a lot to improve on with a very young list, them not so much I think. The camera work is on par with the commentary absolute crap, do they not know we are watching on telly because we are not at the game!
The lack of context in the whole televised presentation gives me the funny feeling they are all, camera men and commentators, working from home, remotely!
Bad day at the office, bring on the Roos ! Just a few more wins……..please. Go Hawks.

 

[The Kipster]

The thing that kills me about Reeves is for such a big man he gets corralled and turned in ruck contests which then limits where he can hit the ball to. He never dictates the contest he always looks for contact at boundary throw ins. He may get his hand to taps but a lot aren't to our plan. And it shits me that he never hits the ball forward as far as he can to break things up like the Big O does at Brisbane. That has to be in his repertoire. Some of his taps are as pure as you could hope for but at the moment they are really all he is contributing.

The around the ground stuff has become fatal for mine. You just can't be a man down on field when the ball is in play. His mobility is a real issue. Even when he is in the vicinity of a contest when he gets there he can't affect the contest to our advantage eg knock it front and square.

Does he get stronger at stoppages and more mobile? No doubt he will but it might be another 3 seasons before he is much more dependable. He is a long way off still. It's a hard watch at the moment his first month was below par in his development curve then he levelled up but wr haven't seen any further progress.

He's lucky Meek has been patchy.

I wish Monkey was still our ruck coach, Maxie is inexperienced in rucking terms really as his career was so stifled through injury.

 

[Elhawko]

With regards to our forward line I have played in more cohesive East Gippsland Seconds forward lines where you didn't know the names of half of your team mates and most hadn't rocked up to a training session for a couple of months!

It's weird as our forward line was actually a relative strength last year but we have gone backwards big time in this area in 2023. For all the talk of poor delivery the Tigers won three preimeriships with grubber kicks into the F50 so that doesn't hold much dice with me.

Was Hale our forward coach last year? If so we need to get him back there for next year as we need some kind of cohesive approach to this part of the ground.

I agree! I sat behind the goals last week so had a great view of our forward system and nobody really leads to the ball carrier. The forwards either faded back and wide or just motioned for the ball to be kicked to a spot inviting a marking contest that we never seemed to win. If you look back at Lewis’ first game back from injury he was clunking everything and making leads but he seems to have lost that in recent weeks. If he had played that game this week we would have won.

 

[Sturty]

The thing that kills me about Reeves is for such a big man he gets corralled and turned in ruck contests which then limits where he can hit the ball to. He never dictates the contest he always looks for contact at boundary throw ins. He may get his hand to taps but a lot aren't to our plan. And it shits me that he never hits the ball forward as far as he can to break things up like the Big O does at Brisbane. That has to be in his repertoire. Some of his taps are as pure as you could hope for but at the moment they are really all he is contributing.

The around the ground stuff has become fatal for mine. You just can't be a man down on field when the ball is in play. His mobility is a real issue. Even when he is in the vicinity of a contest when he gets there he can't affect the contest to our advantage eg knock it front and square.

Does he get stronger at stoppages and more mobile? No doubt he will but it might be another 3 seasons before he is much more dependable. He is a long way off still. It's a hard watch at the moment his first month was below par in his development curve then he levelled up but wr haven't seen any further progress.

He's lucky Meek has been patchy.

Nail. Head.

 

[SSSSSS]

Interesting to see Ned was the 2nd highest rated player on the ground.

Brocky worst on ground with a negative 1 rating. Ouch.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Interesting to see Ned was the 2nd highest rated player on the ground.

This thread kinda proves that people don’t watch or listen to the post game pressers, and that they just apply their own perceptions as truth.

People came for Ned last week, yet Sam made specific mention on Saturday that our mids did not take advantage of his hitouts and that a fair amount of pressure was on them to do so last week.

 

[TheFourPillars]

This thread kinda proves that people don’t watch or listen to the post game pressers, and that they just apply their own perceptions as truth.

People came for Ned last week, yet Sam made specific mention on Saturday that our mids did not take advantage of his hitouts and that a fair amount of pressure was on them to do so last week.

Then they wonder about selection

 

[Hawker55]

Interesting to see Ned was the 2nd highest rated player on the ground.

Brocky worst on ground with a negative 1 rating. Ouch.

Is this Champion Data? Because Brocky would have copped it because he tried a lot of things and not much came off - I'd rather he did that than just take the safe option

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Interesting to see Ned was the 2nd highest rated player on the ground.

Brocky worst on ground with a negative 1 rating. Ouch.

Last week Day was being mentioned as our best player, but he was nowhere near the top with ranking points. He was right in the middle of the pack.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

This thread kinda proves that people don’t watch or listen to the post game pressers, and that they just apply their own perceptions as truth.

People came for Ned last week, yet Sam made specific mention on Saturday that our mids did not take advantage of his hitouts and that a fair amount of pressure was on them to do so last week.

No, people watch the games and see that Reeves offers nothing around the ground and isn't an aerial threat. That isn't a perception, that's literally reality.

He's good at winning taps. Hence the comments from Mitchell regarding taps. This has never been up for debate.

That doesn't change the fact he couldn't exploit two much smaller players, neither of which were actual ruckmen, around the ground. Hence people "came for him" last week. Both things can be true.

 

[HawthornHawk]

Is this Champion Data? Because Brocky would have copped it because he tried a lot of things and not much came off - I'd rather he did that than just take the safe option

Loved his chase down tackle late. Reminded me of Cyril in the 15 GF