Analysis i've got a high tolerance for essendon being s**t, but this game was appalling

[DapperDon]

Sure, ignoring the larger point I was making but that's par for the course.

My point was that from 2013 they built a core of Boak (already there, yes), Wines, Jonas, DBJ, Amon and Grey and then added and tweaked it from there but the core of their build started when they drafted Wines. The core of this build started in 2020.

Apologies, I got confused where you said their list hasn't changed much from 2013 to now. My mistake for not understanding your larger point that is has changed heaps since then.

 

[bombreys]

It’s a natural reaction but it also has the potential to be highly counterproductive if it leads to a bunch of nuffies getting elected to the board on a ‘Finals Bound 2025’ ticket, and a heap of shortcuts are taken at the expense of building a sustainable platform.

That’s not to say fans shouldn’t demand accountability, but shrieking about short term results during a long term, strategic initiative is not that.

There's a middle ground though. I think the Sydney game showed most are okay/understanding with a loss, as long as the effort's there and you can see what they're trying to achieve or working towards.

We were in the game until about half way through the last quarter (or whenever it was) in Sydney. They kicked away a bit in the end and that was disappointing of course, but also understandable, as they're quite simply a better side than us (and 10+ other sides) right now.

The Port game was hopefully just an off week, you just can't let it happen too many times, especially given our end to last year.

If we lost to the Power the same was the Suns lost to the Giants, I think most fans are okay with that.

 

[Snake Charmer]

It’s a natural reaction but it also has the potential to be highly counterproductive if it leads to a bunch of nuffies getting elected to the board on a ‘Finals Bound 2025’ ticket, and a heap of shortcuts are taken at the expense of building a sustainable platform.

That’s not to say fans shouldn’t demand accountability, but shrieking about short term results during a long term, strategic initiative is not that.

That might be true but you’re dealing with a large group of members and supporters who have put their hard earnt into memberships, merch, tickets and everything else. You hope the club are doin the right thing behind close doors (guess what, they haven’t been for a long time) but when the anniversary of fan expectation is approaching it’s 20th year, you will hear from a lot of impatient people. Rightly or wrongly.

 

[Bevoman]

Apologies, I got confused where you said their list hasn't changed much from 2013 to now. My mistake for not understanding your larger point that is has changed heaps since then.

Rozee was ranked the best footballer in his u/16 year where Port started trackin him.

They traded out Wyngard to get into the 2018 draft and then traded down to Pick Five where the plan was to get SA players RoZee or Lukosious. Of course they got Butters as a high pick in the same draft.

My point is instead of arguing about who win trade values, you need to be prepared to give up something good if you want to get something good.

 

[84859300]

Once again, a heavy loss now means our ladder percentage is rooted.

On the slight chance we're close to being around the 8, our poor showing provides more challenges - totally self-inflicted.

 

[DapperDon]

Rozee was ranked the best footballer in his u/16 year where Port started trackin him.

They traded out Wyngard to get into the 2018 draft and then traded down to Pick Five where the plan was to get SA players RoZee or Lukosious. Of course they got Butters as a high pick in the same draft.

My point is instead of arguing about who win trade values, you need to be prepared to give up something good if you want to get something good.

thanks for sharing?

 

[rumply]

Jebus, even the umps are feeling sorry for us now.

The 2024 AFL Free Kick Ladder - Round 4

The first edition of 2024.

www.sen.com.au

 

[bombreys]

Jebus, even the umps are feeling sorry for us now.

The 2024 AFL Free Kick Ladder - Round 4

The first edition of 2024.

www.sen.com.au

Should be back to scratch after 10 first quarter frees to Weightman Friday night

 

[ant555]

I don't understand this thinking. We are in 'build' number 7-8 after our last premiership? Nothing about our list screams that we have a plan that will actually lead to success.

Beautiful little write up in the Age today..
"If this season is the measure, the coach, in his second season at the Bombers, is right. If he wants to take a look at the past five years at the club (a period beyond the drugs saga), it’s not.

The more difficult – but more relevant – conversation club officials must continue to confront is: “How do we get the recruiting, development and injury management right?” There have been excuses. Those have run out.

Their string (pardon the pun) of soft-tissue injuries means Zach Reid, Matt Guelfi, Jordan Ridley and now Archie Perkins are missing when the club really needs to see them playing alongside each other. Scott was blunt when asked whether it was a concern: “You’d like to think the soft-tissue ones are the ones you can do something about. So we’ll need to go to work on that.”
The recently appointed new face in list management, Matt Rosa, is a calm operator with an enormous task ahead of him to rectify the mediocrity that has continued long after they moved through the debilitating drugs saga.

In 2018, Port Adelaide finished just 2.5 percentage points ahead of Essendon. At the end of that season, Adelaide, the Brisbane Lions, St Kilda, Fremantle, Gold Coast and Carlton were below the Bombers on the ladder.
It was at that year’s draft Port Adelaide added Connor Rozee and Zak Butters. They then found Miles Bergman and Mitch Georgiades the following season, while Bombers sat on their hands without a selection before pick 30 either season. They had instead invested precious first-round selections in Dylan Shiel.

The impact of the calls made during that time was most obvious on Friday night. But the delay such quick fixes caused to real growth at Essendon has been apparent for years."

Port won last Friday on the back of guys recruited in 2019 and beyond.. IE in the modern game.. a rebuild can happen in 2-3 years. So stop with the narrative. Yet again we rebuilt and yet again we came up short. Why? Because we trusted the SAME guy to do the rebuild every time and he can't pick talent. Our list is full of plodders.. seemingly a never ending stream of guys that can't understand a modern AFL game plan.. and all of them stick thin with the added bonus of no endurance runners..

I mean look at our list.. tell me what the strength is. Have we gone for the most skillful? The biggest? The fittest? Are we going for height? Are we recruiting for speed? There is just no identifiable strength in our list.

What do Melbourne and Carlton have in common? The moment they finally got serious about building a club and a culture. Roos turned Melbourne culture around in 2 years.. Carlton got serious in 2020 and went with Austin and Agresta. We still have a fan base that seemingly doesn't understand that recruitment is 70% of the battle. Instead we have just left Dodo running his own ship for 20+ years of mediocrity. I'd say most successful clubs it is 70% recruiting, 10% fitness/injury management, 10% coaching and 10% club management/list management/culture etc.

I think we know this and we are basically in year 1 of the culture build. The club allowed Scott and Vozzo to throw in a basic game plan and sit back and watch last year. We basically wasted a season to look at all the issues. I do not totally agree with the time line. Yes it could take 2 or 3 years but it took Melbourne 9 years to win a flag and only two players from that side dated back further than Roos / Mahoney / Taylor / Goodwin. They also crash landed at one stage and had to steady the ship again. Hardwicke at Richmond. Started in 2009. Flag in 2017 after nearly being given the ass in 2016. Bomber at Geelong was a bit quicker winning a flag after 7 seasons but was also under pressure in 2006.

As for Dodoro. Yes he is still here. Yes he should not be but he is not making the decisions on recruiting any more. Yes the optics of him being there may suggest otherwise but he is not. Craig Vozzo. Brad Scott. Danial McPherson. Matt Rosa. Rob Foster Knight. Rohan O'Brien. They are the team now. Dodoros role is to help Rosa with the contract side of things which is the area he does not have the experience in.

No issues with people being annoyed with Dodoro but the playing field has been changed. Problem is we are only 1 draft and FA period into it. It is really the start of another rebuild.

 

[Shanghaistu]

BARRETT: Same old Dons, still mediocre after coup 'carnage'

Twenty months after the David Barham-led upheaval, Essendon is still middle of the road, writes Damian Barrett

www.afl.com.au

At least Damo still loves us…

 

[windyhill]

BARRETT: Same old Dons, still mediocre after coup 'carnage'

Twenty months after the David Barham-led upheaval, Essendon is still middle of the road, writes Damian Barrett

www.afl.com.au

At least Damo still loves us…

He’s spot on. But nothing new there. Love the survivor reference.

 

[pepsi]

You really have to wonder what might have been if we sat the remaining 34 down and said "we're now a rebuilding club, do you still want to be here?", collected what few picks we could and went hard at the 2016/17/18 drafts with a fresh leadership group. I suspect we'd be in a better spot by now.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. There are many things we could have done differently as a club during that period. If we accepted it all and told the 34 players, go and look for other clubs, we won't try and stop you, things probably would look different now.

However I still maintain that the day hooker re-signed with the club, which then lead to a number of the 34 players sticking with the club after the saga and coming back, was some of the proudest and happiest moments I've had as an EFC fan for a long time. That whole episode took an emotional toll on many of us fans.

I remember my dad saying at the time that it would take a long time for the club to recover from it and with hindsight, he was on the money.

Recruiting, development and coaching. Things we haven't got right (through poor club leadership, maybe bad luck) just about since the saga. We are like a slow moving ship trying to right the course and become a more competent and professional sporting club, but it's incredibly hard work that needs things to fall in place a little. I'm not convinced with our list and with Tasmania coming in and raising talent over the coming years, it could be a while yet before we contend. But you never know, maybe over the coming years we can turn it around.

 

[yodellinhank]

Maybe a senior player having to play VFL hurts their pride to the point they say never again.

Is that why Shiel isn't playing?

 

[Milanista28]

Is that why Shiel isn't playing?

Hope he's back in the seniors soon for your sake.

 

[Shanghaistu]

There’s no question that Friday was a regressive disaster, but the media and football public are really piling it on after one shocker - what will they still have left to say after we get obliterated this Friday night? The media might have used all of their Essendon bullets already

 

[fairbump_playon]

There’s no question that Friday was a regressive disaster, but the media and football public are really piling it on after one shocker - what will they still have left to say after we get obliterated this Friday night? The media might have used all of their Essendon bullets already

Yep we could quickly go from topical to irrelevant

If it wasn’t for mounting injuries I wouldn’t actually be that concerned that the Port game was the start of an unraveling. I thought the first half was fine and second half a perfect storm.

My fear is that it’s much harder to compete without Ridley, Wright, Perkins and Setterfield.

We need confidence to stick in games but our self belief is still thin and crumbly. Every chance heads will drop the minute we encounter adversity against the dogs.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Yep we could quickly go from topical to irrelevant

If it wasn’t for mounting injuries I wouldn’t actually be that concerned that the Port game was the start of an unraveling. I thought the first half was fine and second half a perfect storm.

My fear is that it’s much harder to compete without Ridley, Wright, Perkins and Setterfield.

We need confidence to stick in games but our self belief is still thin and crumbly. Every chance heads will drop the minute we encounter adversity against the dogs.

I was confident we could bounce back till I heard the Setterfield news. Thought with Setters 2 games in and Durham returning our midfield could bounce back despite losing perkins. But now with only durham to do the grunt work I can see the dogs mids waltzing it out of the centre too.
I hope we get caldwell/Durham to go with Bont and Libba and fingers crossed Hobbs can find some form as he showed last year he can also get his hands dirty.

 

[fairbump_playon]

I was confident we could bounce back till I heard the Setterfield news. Thought with Setters 2 games in and Durham returning our midfield could bounce back despite losing perkins. But now with only durham to do the grunt work I can see the dogs mids waltzing it out of the centre too.
I hope we get caldwell/Durham to go with Bont and Libba and fingers crossed Hobbs can find some form as he showed last year he can also get his hands dirty.

Indeed. Libba in particular bosses us in a way that only Durham has the potential to match. Setterfield maybe if fit and firing, but I don't think Setterfield is manic enough.

Hobbs was borderline terrible against Port. Really not in great shape. Can't carry him and Parish being out of touch against a Bulldogs midfield.

Champions step up, losers step aside. Can they find something?

Personally I recommend yoga for bad form.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Indeed. Libba in particular bosses us in a way that only Durham has the potential to match. Setterfield maybe if fit and firing, but I don't think Setterfield is manic enough.

Hobbs was borderline terrible against Port. Really not in great shape. Can't carry him and Parish being out of touch against a Bulldogs midfield.

Champions step up, losers step aside. Can they find something?

Personally I recommend yoga for bad form.

I was really disappointed with how many tackles Hobbs fell off on friday, usually Hobbs is one of our hardest in the contest. Makes me wonder if his shoulder is still giving him issues and I hope its small issue and not something he will carry all year.

 

[Vindicater]

There’s no question that Friday was a regressive disaster, but the media and football public are really piling it on after one shocker - what will they still have left to say after we get obliterated this Friday night? The media might have used all of their Essendon bullets already

Oh they will rip us to shreds.

 

[Snake Charmer]

I was really disappointed with how many tackles Hobbs fell off on friday, usually Hobbs is one of our hardest in the contest. Makes me wonder if his shoulder is still giving him issues and I hope its small issue and not something he will carry all year.

Hobbs has an absolute nightmare of a game. Let’s hope that’s the worst we ever see from him

 

[Shanghaistu]

Apologies if this has already been raised, and maybe not a popular opinion, but are we ‘spoilt’ by having guaranteed marquee games every year regardless of effort or performance? Our guys can play in front of 100,000 + crowds at the G several times a year just for wearing an Essendon sash whereas other teams such as Melbourne have to earn the right to make it to the big stage by winning finals and finishing top-4. Are we a ‘destination’ club for some players because they get to automatically play in some huge fixtures each year without ever going the extra yard and having to commit to team success?

 

[faible]

Apologies if this has already been raised, and maybe not a popular opinion, but are we ‘spoilt’ by having guaranteed marquee games every year regardless of effort or performance? Our guys can play in front of 100,000 + crowds at the G several times a year just for wearing an Essendon sash whereas other teams such as Melbourne have to earn the right to make it to the big stage by winning finals and finishing top-4. Are we a ‘destination’ club for some players because they get to automatically play in some huge fixtures each year without ever going the extra yard and having to commit to team success?

I think any of the traditional big Melbourne clubs are an easy sell, yes. Obviously being better and bigger makes it easier.

If you're coming from a smaller Melbourne club or a northern club where you're not regularly playing in front of big crowds, the draw of one of the bigger clubs being able to hit 80k or more at a H&A game would be pretty compelling.

We're not the only one with a 'marquee' game either, Anzac Day just happens to be about the best H&A one on the calendar.

 

[Squeaky]

Don't see what is so 'destination' about playing in all of the marquee games and getting your arse handed to you every ****ing time for all the footy public to see!
Don't see what is so 'destination' about watching the finals every year while you're on holiday.
I do not see what is 'destination' about being a young draftee and seeing the lack of development vs your peers/friends.
We are not a destination club!

 

[Rick Ross]

Don't see what is so 'destination' about playing in all of the marquee games and getting your arse handed to you every ******* time for all the footy public to see!
Don't see what is so 'destination' about watching the finals every year while you're on holiday.
I do not see what is 'destination' about being a young draftee and seeing the lack of development vs your peers/friends.
We are not a destination club!

Everything is relative.
We’re a middling Victorian destination club.

McKay was also wanted by:
-North - we’re more destination and will win more games than them
-Hawthorn - we’re more destination and will win more games than them

Guessing a real destination club like Collingwood or Geelong was in for him, he’d be playing there.