Analysis i've got a high tolerance for essendon being s**t, but this game was appalling

[boncer34]

I meant haven't.

The idea of a rebuild is saying the core isn't there to me. Our core has been tweaked a couple of times (from Watson/Hurley/Hooker/Ryder/Stanton to Watson/Hurley/Hooker/Daniher/Goddard/Merrett/Heppell to Daniher/Merrett/Goddard/Hurley/Hooker/Parish/Heppell) but it was largely maintained throughout that time so it wasn't really a rebuild for me. The core changed at the end of 2020 to be the younger group. That's a clearly defined difference.

Port's core from 2013 til now has been tweaked but it hasn't really changed heaps.

I thought so. And yes we clearly aren't patient now but as I've said to you elsewhere I view us as being onto our 5th build. Impatience at being told to wait for the 5th time is probably valid to me.

Acknowledging we disagree on our definitions though.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Have the fans been patient in the current build? Mate, be serious. Tell me I'm wrong in that regard. We unequivocally haven't been.

It’s hard to be patient when there has been no improvement for 20 years. You can’t blame the supporters for being upset at the current dogshit. It’s a pretty natural reaction as it’s rinse and repeat, it won’t get better until the results are actually there. Ie a finals wins

 

[boncer34]

It’s hard to be patient when there has been no improvement for 20 years. You can’t blame the supporters for being upset at the current dogshit. It’s a pretty natural reaction as it’s rinse and repeat, it won’t get better until the results are actually there. Ie a finals wins

Which is also a fair point.

Regardless of if it's the 2nd, 5th or 10th rebuild it's pretty difficult to swallow "being patient" when you've had 0 success of any sort at all since 2004.

 

[faible]

I actually included Richmond in the original post as an exception because their gameplan was physically taxing and built around hard running and superior fitness, so they aimed to peak in the second half of the year and built a successful and reliable system that all players bought into. They are the exception in many ways. They were generally last or close to last for stoppage clearances, average around clearances in general except for perhaps centre clearances, lost contested possessions etc. From a statistical point of view, they were average in many ways. They were also an average skilled-side and weren't a consistently elite pressure side after 2017 (though they could turn it on when needed). But their fitness, defensive system to force turnovers (and punish the turnover) and team synergy was unlike any team we've seen in the modern era. No one could go with them when they turned it on helped by the best player in the modern era in Dusty who could single-handedly win games. They could basically sit back and let teams dominate the middle, then run them down to the ground in the last quarter and later parts of the season/finals simply because of how fit and defensively sound they were.

It may appear that Richmond's defensive system failed often, but it's far more intentional than it first appears. Compare their blowout losses in the first half of the year to the second half of the year and its quite evident they didn't care for the beginning because of how reliable their system was. When they ran out of steam in 2018, they pretty much conceded the first half of 2019 before turning it up in the second half to avoid the same fadeout. They then won the premiership emphatically. What they had demonstrated even dating back to 2014 is the ability to win a massive run of games in second halves of seasons, which is another issue I have with Essendon but that's for another conversation.

We don't have close to the fitness levels of Richmond nor the ability to turn it on when necessary so they aren't the right team to compare us to.

I'm not sure what this reply had to do with what I wrote tbh.

I'm also not sure in 2016 you'd have been telling all and sundry how good Richmond was, so it's all hindsight.

So we're back to this part:

If you're expecting linear improvement you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

 

[faible]

Which is also a fair point.

Regardless of if it's the 2nd, 5th or 10th rebuild it's pretty difficult to swallow "being patient" when you've had 0 success of any sort at all since 2004.

Which is a problem, Scott has 0 responsibility for Knights, Hird, Worsfold or Rutten's failures. But they all get held accountable for the failures of previous coaches and the club makes short sighted decisions.

We went from Knights to Hird, realising Knights had been drastically under resourced and giving Hird whatever he wanted- which ended well - then a decade on we end up in almost the exact same scenario with Rutten and a drastically under resourced football department.

 

[boncer34]

Which is a problem, Scott has 0 responsibility for Knights, Hird, Worsfold or Rutten's failures. But they all get held accountable for the failures of previous coaches and the club makes short sighted decisions.

We went from Knights to Hird, realising Knights had been drastically under resourced and giving Hird whatever he wanted- which ended well - then a decade on we end up in almost the exact same scenario with Rutten and a drastically under resourced football department.

Sure but most of us are directing anger at the club as a collective.

There's been maybe 2 posters in this thread having a crack at Scott.

 

[eth-dog]

It’s hard to be patient when there has been no improvement for 20 years. You can’t blame the supporters for being upset at the current dogshit. It’s a pretty natural reaction as it’s rinse and repeat, it won’t get better until the results are actually there. Ie a finals wins

I can and will. It's hard to fix it when in year 2 the supporters lose their shit after one bad game and call for the coaches head. If we want this shit fixed we need to be patient.

 

[boncer34]

I can and will. It's hard to fix it when in year 2 the supporters lose their s**t after one bad game and call for the coaches head. If we want this s**t fixed we need to be patient.

Who's actually called for him to be sacked outside of the usual half a dozen or so suspects that seem to call for every coach?

 

[faible]

Who's actually called for him to be sacked outside of the usual half a dozen or so suspects that seem to call for every coach?

The usual half a dozen suspects is who we're all complaining about I assumed

 

[boncer34]

The usual half a dozen suspects is who we're all complaining about I assumed

So.... why?

 

[Milanista28]

I don't blame Scott, I lay the blame at the feet of the senior players, most of our best players have these meek performances all the time.

If I were to criticize him it would be at the selection table, I'd love him to more ruthless in striving for perfection, dropping Tsatas is easy, dropping Redman or Draper sends a stronger message.

 

[faible]

So.... why?

If they get to complain, we get to complain

 

[Snake Charmer]

I can and will. It's hard to fix it when in year 2 the supporters lose their s**t after one bad game and call for the coaches head. If we want this s**t fixed we need to be patient.

Majority aren’t calling for the coaches head. The majority agree the issue runs much deeper than the coach

 

[Snake Charmer]

This thread is gonna be awesome if the dogs smash us on Friday haha

 

[eth-dog]

Who's actually called for him to be sacked outside of the usual half a dozen or so suspects that seem to call for every coach?

It always starts like that and then it grows legs. Same thing happened with Truck after the Freo loss in R5 2022. Pretty much everyone laughed it off. Come the bye it was stronger and then by the end of the year most of the people in here and various other social media sites wanted him gone and the dickheads in charge listened.

Just because it's the same idiots who start it every time is irrelevant. A vocal minority can turn to a vocal majority in a very short space in time.

 

[boncer34]

If they get to complain, we get to complain

So talk to them. Snake Charmer and myself aren't calling for Scott's head.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

I don't blame Scott, I lay the blame at the feet of the senior players, most of our best players have these meek performances all the time.

If I were to criticize him it would be at the selection table, I'd love him to more ruthless in striving for perfection, dropping Tsatas is easy, dropping Redman or Draper sends a stronger message.

As much as I agree that Draper needs a wake up call the problem is Bryan seems even more meek. Till 2MP comes back I think we are stuck with him as Goldy too old to run out a match by himself. I would love to see red-dog dropped for roberts though.

 

[boncer34]

It always starts like that and then it grows legs. Same thing happened with Truck after the Freo loss in R5 2022. Pretty much everyone laughed it off. Come the bye it was stronger and then by the end of the year most of the people in here and various other social media sites wanted him gone and the dickheads in charge listened.

Just because it's the same idiots who start it every time is irrelevant. A vocal minority can turn to a vocal majority in a very short space in time.

 

[eth-dog]

Majority aren’t calling for the coaches head. The majority agree the issue runs much deeper than the coach

As above, it might start that way, but it can change very quickly.

 

[Milanista28]

As much as I agree that Draper needs a wake up call the problem is Bryan seems even more meek. Till 2MP comes back I think we are stuck with him as Goldy too old to run out a match by himself. I would love to see red-dog dropped for roberts though.

I'm not fussed if the player we bring in isn't better than the guy we drop, the message is what appeals to me. I can appreciate going down the avenue where you have a stern word during the week and back them in to respond, and generally you get a response, but we all know based off past history in 6 weeks time this performance is coming back.

Maybe a senior player having to play VFL hurts their pride to the point they say never again.

 

[DapperDon]

Port's core from 2013 til now has been tweaked but it hasn't really changed heaps.

They have about 2 players from their 2013 list

 

[Old Campaigner]

It’s hard to be patient when there has been no improvement for 20 years. You can’t blame the supporters for being upset at the current dogshit. It’s a pretty natural reaction as it’s rinse and repeat, it won’t get better until the results are actually there. Ie a finals wins

It’s a natural reaction but it also has the potential to be highly counterproductive if it leads to a bunch of nuffies getting elected to the board on a ‘Finals Bound 2025’ ticket, and a heap of shortcuts are taken at the expense of building a sustainable platform.

That’s not to say fans shouldn’t demand accountability, but shrieking about short term results during a long term, strategic initiative is not that.

 

[boncer34]

It’s a natural reaction but it also has the potential to be highly counterproductive if it leads to a bunch of nuffies getting elected to the board on a ‘Finals Bound 2025’ ticket, and a heap of shortcuts are taken at the expense of building a sustainable platform.

That’s not to say fans shouldn’t demand accountability, but shrieking about short term results during a long term, strategic initiative is not that.

Thankfully the Blitz style campaign died with Paul Cousins failing to be relected.

 

[eth-dog]

They have about 2 players from their 2013 list

Sure, ignoring the larger point I was making but that's par for the course.

My point was that from 2013 they built a core of Boak (already there, yes), Wines, Jonas, DBJ, Amon and Grey and then added and tweaked it from there but the core of their build started when they drafted Wines. The core of this build started in 2020.

 

[bombreys]

As much as I agree that Draper needs a wake up call the problem is Bryan seems even more meek. Till 2MP comes back I think we are stuck with him as Goldy too old to run out a match by himself. I would love to see red-dog dropped for roberts though.