Traded Jack Bowes [Traded to Geelong with #7 for F3]

[Bald]

GC is booting Bowes out the door. They are happy for him and his $$$$ to be taken away from them, we're not exploiting them.

GWS have been pretty open about the fact they're happy to let players go to keep other players and their cap under control. Again, we aren't taking advantage of them or exploiting them.

Both trades are mutually beneficial outcomes.

Trust me, I'm not saying you're exploiting the clubs. I'm saying the optics of each trade isn't good for the competition, that's all. It's admirable that Geelong see themselves in this position. I just don't like it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Gotta get 7 first though. Thats where our f2 comes in

We can get 7 without your f2.

 

[windyhill]

Absolutely insane. You just have to say well done Cats.

 

[Oldmangrumpy]

The competition is taking the piss now!
All clubs have to watch their caps super hard but the kitty litter throw coin around like it grows on trees.
I don’t buy it!
It’s not a lifestyle thing because Geelong is moe by the seaside, norlane
They don’t play for sfa either.
Very sus accounting going on.
Got to get caught eventually.

 

[Boxhead_31]

What is going back to GC? Future first?

They can't trade their future pick

Pick 7 resets the trading clock as we took Holmes in the first round in 2020

 

[year of the cat]

Because you are an idiot?

No because I very much doubt that if Bowes had picked the Hawks that we would have seen a similar post. Yet it wasn’t too long ago that the Hawks 3 peated.

I can see why opposition supporters might be frustrated. But as another Cats poster has stated - there are quite unique reasons that we are able to facilitate this deal. The irony of the competition giving it to us for being “Dad’s Army” yet we’ve won the flag and are utilising the cash freed up from some of these veterans’ retirements is wonderful!

All things are cyclical. We won’t enjoy this current situation forever. So we’ll enjoy it while we can.

 

[Boxhead_31]

The competition is taking the piss now!
All clubs have to watch their caps super hard but the kitty litter throw coin around like it grows on trees.
I don’t buy it!
It’s not a lifestyle thing because Geelong is moe by the seaside, norlane
They don’t play for sfa either.
Very sus accounting going on.
Got to get caught eventually.

McStay, Mitchell, Hill, Frampton one of Brodie Grundy's legs and one of Adam Treloar's arms all play for nix are they?

 

[Rockford]

What is going back to GC? Future first?

Pick 7 resets the trading clock as we took Holmes in the first round in 2020

It will be future 2nd.

 

[Oldmangrumpy]

McStay, Mitchell, Hill, Frampton one of Brodie Grundy's legs and one of Adam Treloar's arms all play for nix are they?

The pies screwed up and are paying for it.
Still have a young core on stuff all who will bite soon

 

[Shadow89]

'It's technically within the rules, so how could it be unfair?'

I created this BigFooty account to respond to comments like this.

I'm sick and tired of Geelong supporters pretending like no one is allowed to criticise the grotesque injustice of this situation. Yes, your club is AMAZING at looting a busted system. Now, can we talk about how busted the system is?

Nobody wants to punish Geelong specifically, you myopic manatee. No club (including Hawthorn), should be able to abuse the AFL system to this extent. Geelong just won the premiership, so obviously this coup is particularly egregious - but this Bowes trade is really just the most recent of a long line of abject fleecing that the AFL has been either too docile, or too idiotic to intervene on. For all their 'equalisation' measures, teams like Geelong are making a mockery of out their league under their very noses.

The 'player empowerment era' means that once a player (contracted or not, it really doesn't matter) nominates his club of choice (almost always a rich, contending club), the club is held utterly hostage. So while you may be benefitting from it now, can you not see how perilous it is for the long-term health of the game?

GWS and GCS have been drafting and developing elite young talent for Years just for them to eventually request a trade to a wealthy Victorian club - hence, GWS and GCS are forced to trade them for a bag of chips (as they have 0 bargaining power) or hold them to their contract just to watch them walk away for free.

But why is this particularly scenario so terrible for the welfare of the game? Well, the shambolic Gold Coast front office - throwing away a former top 10 pick and pick 7, not even to the highest bidder, but to the former premier, just because Bowes says so? Not trading for established talent,or future picks, or even just offering Bowes and 2nd... and rich, established, contending clubs capitalising on their incompotence. Bowes is getting paid 1.6 million to be a VFL player, and yet, Gold Coast will let him choose where he wants to go, instead of seeking the best deal for him and pick 7? How can this possibly be allowed?

And Geelong being allowed to restructure a 1.6 2 year deal over 4 years - thereby completely shattering the integrity of a salary dump. I don't care whether the shifting of Bowes' contract aligns with the rulebook - it's a disgrace that Geelong don't have to cop the financial reprecusions of a SALARY-DUMP until well down the track.

Geelong fans, spare me: young, highly-talented contracted players like Bruhn chasing premierships at Geelong is not necessarily a reflection of a 'well run club'. It's more of a 'right place, right time' kind of thing. You just won a premiership, so obviously, you're a destination club. Which makes you more likely to win another premiership, which makes you more of a destination club. And what's GWS supposed to do? Any ex-Geelong area player (Danger, Cameron, the list goes on) can claim 'homesickness' (yeah, I don't buy it) and extort a trade from the inter-state clubs they were drafted to. Gold Coast and GWS fatten young prospects up, just for them to be poached by the likes of Geelong or Richmond at the first available opportunity. We've seen it time and time again, and it's clearly not getting any better. Ironically, even if Gold Coast or some other inter-state had taken Jhye Clark with that very same Pick 7, he probably would've requested a trade back to Geelong anyway.

The same goes for clubs in trouble like North Melbourne with Jason Horne-Francis. If he was really 'homesick', he would wager for any sort of return to SA. But of course, he wants PORT. He wants to play for a CONTENDER. Adelaide may have more to offer North, but because JHF chose Port, North have no bargaining power. They will either have to either ship away the former Number 1 pick for unders, or have to deal with a disgruntled JHF till he can leave of his own volition. They too fall victim to the 'player empowerment era'.

Current/future example: GWS landed a star in Taranto for pick 2. They developed him. He wanted to leave to Richmond. Richmond gave them pick 12 and 19. Hyopthetically, GWS lands a star in pick 12. They develop him. He wants to leave to Hawthorn. Hawthorn give them pick 16. Etc etc. Do you not see the vicious cycle unfolding here? GWS and Gold Coast are rendered mere nursing homes, because the current system gives them no power. Draft picks are meaningless to these clubs at the moment, so giving them more draft picks won't help, it'll just give the powerhouses more chances to establish dynasties.

Yes, anyone would've snatched the Bowes deal if they had a chance, Hawthorn included. That's not the point. The system is fundementally broken. I'm sick of Bowes, of Cameron, of Dangerfield, of Hopper, of Lynch, of Prestia snaking their way to premiership clubs, who aren't punished in salary for making the acquisition. Think Bowes and Pick 7 as Kevin Durant to the Warriors - when will a club like Geelong ever have to rebuild, when dysfunctional clubs like Gold Coast are jumping up and down to hand them prize draft picks, and all their players are looking to end up there anyway?

The former premiers shouldn't be allowed to acquire Bowes and Pick 7 for scraps, but they will, so that's that. Now it's up to the AFL to make sure it can't happen again. Restrictions on top 2/4/8 teams from acquiring talent? Reconstruction of the free agency / trade period system? Considerably greater salary cap for GCS and GWS? Longer rookie contracts? Just anything to restore some semblance of power to clubs, because literally anything is better than what we have right now.

This is bigger than any individual club. AFL is a SHAMBLES right now, and I'm afraid without decisive action, it'll only get worse.

I'm just gonna reply to this with the most fundamental part that you missed - we were apparently into him way way before he was even announced. That was ultimately what got him over the line, as all the other clubs only joined the party when they heard about Pick 7. We'd been speaking to his manager all year, and he was one of our main targets along with Hopper. Pick 7 getting thrown into the mix, was ultimately unnecessary, as we wanted him without that pick.

I do actually agree with you that the system is broken. But for me, the biggest problem is, is that some clubs are hollow and lack values and culture. GWS has just been filled with highly talented draftees, that end up attracting every club's interest, because they're skilled from such a young age and clubs keep in contact with their managers constantly. Difference has to be though, is that you need your club to be about more than money - as I mentioned earlier. GC have finally figured it out, and they're actually on a really good path now (bar this ridiculous charade this year and Brodie last year).

They've got players who want to come to them now. They have a core group that is starting to build together and has strong leadership, and isn't being tempted by offers of home, because they're building something together. That was why it was so important for them to get a priority pick to get Anderson, as Rowell and Anderson publicly stated they wanted to build something and turn the club around. Miller is the same, as is Bowes. You lose someone like Rankine who's always had a bit of 'figjam' about him, but then you get closer to keeping a guy like Ben King, who is buying into what they're selling up there. You have guys like Ballard and Collins down back. You have Ellis who was a time 2 time premiership player who opts to go up there, and you have tons of talent on the list like Elijah Hollands and Mac Andrew, just waiting to come through.

Culture is something that eclipses everything in the AFL. Players (especially after COVID) value their work/life balance more than anything now - and we have been cited as being the most relaxed in that space. You also have clubs like Richmond and Melbourne who were basketcases not 6 years ago, who are now destination clubs. Why? Because they wanted to stay together. Same with Freo and Carlton. Players like Jackson are asking to go there, and Brayshaw, Serong, Young etc. are building something. Walsh, Cerra, Mckay, Curnow, Cripps etc. are building something at Carlton.

While there are some serious equalization issues in the AFL, the main problem for me is the way clubs are run. Look at Essendon just in this last week and their absolute shambles of a process for CEO and coach (a board member like Sheedy going against the incoming coach is just unheard of). Why should any player want to go to a club where their board is more concerned about how things look, rather than proper process and governance - and a united culture. Look at the Saints. They've won 1 flag in their entire tenure, and they keep bringing in guys to fix things overnight on massive money - like Hannebery, Brad Crouch, Brad Hill, Dougal Howard etc. There's no specific purpose for bringing these guys in - they just want to take shortcuts and buy their way to a flag - it doesn't happen though.

All lists who end up being successful, have a united core that leads them to the promised land. They care about the club more than a paycheck, and they believe in what they're building. I see it in Anderson and Rowell. I see it in Brayshaw and Serong, and Walsh and Curnow. These guys won't leave ever. Why? Because they're motivated by making their club better, rather than just getting as much as they can for themselves. As we've seen in recent years, any club that can fix that element, can rise up from the mire, and become successful again. That's the biggest flaw in the 'also ran' clubs, and that's something no amount of equalization can fix, IMO.

 

[catman2006]

Quite interesting all the saltiness based on very good administration by the club, perhaps supporters of other teams need to look at their administrators and question what they aren't doing.

 

[master bate]

We have the luxury to do all this, because we have so many old players. If we were like GWS or Carlton, with absolute superstars in their prime, we couldn't afford to keep them all, as they'd be way below market rate. As it stands, having so many oldies mixed with so many youngsters, means that we have more free across the board, rather than it being concentrated amongst our stars solely and having to have a bunch of rookies and top ups like GWS have done.

I think you've made an important point about the lack of prime age star players on huge deals. The issues I have with the Cats cap/Bowes situation are:

1. Dangerfield and Cameron being on way below free market value. So much so that both teams matched/threatened to match their contracts but Geelong could trade way below their actual trade value to land them (the 3 picks for Jezza the greatest furphy of all time). Veterans are meant to sign with gun teams to win flags, not superstars in their prime. And if you do sign them you're meant to lose fringe players. Dusty and Lynch at Richmond are even on a good whack more money than the Geelong guys and Richmond have had to shed players (until this year).

Danger obviously pops up everywhere including his awful fishing show. Jezza seems to keep it easy on his farm. But it's 2 players who should be making 1.2 Million and are rumoured to be on 900k. That's your cap margin.

2. Bruhn and Henry apparently happy to sign at Geelong for very similar contracts that other clubs offered. These are prize recruits, they should be picking the most expensive deal from a range of home town teams. In a way I say good for them choosing lifestyle and success over cash but it's a unique advantage the Cats have. I'd like to do more to make young players harder to poach early in their careers across the board.

3. GC so happy to dump pick 7 due to their AFL handouts. 17 out of 18 clubs would have a fit if they had to dispose of 7. It's just another day in the life of the Suns.

 

[Boxhead_31]

 

[Boxhead_31]

Wow this is looking quite promising.

Bowes Bruhn Henry and pick 7 possibly the ins for the year.

Conor McKenna as well

 

[The 747]

I think you've made an important point about the lack of prime age star players on huge deals. The issues I have with the Cats cap/Bowes situation are:

1. Dangerfield and Cameron being on way below free market value.

2. Bruhn and Henry apparently happy to sign at Geelong for very similar contracts that other clubs offered.

Hmmm, what do you suggest is done about these two issues though? Players are allowed to make choices.

 

[catman2006]

Conor McKenna as well

He and tippa really should go back to the Bombers

 

[Thetrader15]

Yet we were still under the cap even with his deal.

 

[Thetrader15]

He and tippa really should go back to the Bombers

Tippa should have to sit out for 2 years if he's "retired".

 

[Boxhead_31]

He and tippa really should go back to the Bombers

Would you want to go to present-day Essendon?

 

[CatTricks]

'It's technically within the rules, so how could it be unfair?'

I created this BigFooty account to respond to comments like this.

I'm sick and tired of Geelong supporters pretending like no one is allowed to criticise the grotesque injustice of this situation. Yes, your club is AMAZING at looting a busted system. Now, can we talk about how busted the system is?

Nobody wants to punish Geelong specifically, you myopic manatee. No club (including Hawthorn), should be able to abuse the AFL system to this extent. Geelong just won the premiership, so obviously this coup is particularly egregious - but this Bowes trade is really just the most recent of a long line of abject fleecing that the AFL has been either too docile, or too idiotic to intervene on. For all their 'equalisation' measures, teams like Geelong are making a mockery of out their league under their very noses.

The 'player empowerment era' means that once a player (contracted or not, it really doesn't matter) nominates his club of choice (almost always a rich, contending club), the club is held utterly hostage. So while you may be benefitting from it now, can you not see how perilous it is for the long-term health of the game?

GWS and GCS have been drafting and developing elite young talent for Years just for them to eventually request a trade to a wealthy Victorian club - hence, GWS and GCS are forced to trade them for a bag of chips (as they have 0 bargaining power) or hold them to their contract just to watch them walk away for free.

But why is this particularly scenario so terrible for the welfare of the game? Well, the shambolic Gold Coast front office - throwing away a former top 10 pick and pick 7, not even to the highest bidder, but to the former premier, just because Bowes says so? Not trading for established talent,or future picks, or even just offering Bowes and 2nd... and rich, established, contending clubs capitalising on their incompotence. Bowes is getting paid 1.6 million to be a VFL player, and yet, Gold Coast will let him choose where he wants to go, instead of seeking the best deal for him and pick 7? How can this possibly be allowed?

And Geelong being allowed to restructure a 1.6 2 year deal over 4 years - thereby completely shattering the integrity of a salary dump. I don't care whether the shifting of Bowes' contract aligns with the rulebook - it's a disgrace that Geelong don't have to cop the financial reprecusions of a SALARY-DUMP until well down the track.

Geelong fans, spare me: young, highly-talented contracted players like Bruhn chasing premierships at Geelong is not necessarily a reflection of a 'well run club'. It's more of a 'right place, right time' kind of thing. You just won a premiership, so obviously, you're a destination club. Which makes you more likely to win another premiership, which makes you more of a destination club. And what's GWS supposed to do? Any ex-Geelong area player (Danger, Cameron, the list goes on) can claim 'homesickness' (yeah, I don't buy it) and extort a trade from the inter-state clubs they were drafted to. Gold Coast and GWS fatten young prospects up, just for them to be poached by the likes of Geelong or Richmond at the first available opportunity. We've seen it time and time again, and it's clearly not getting any better. Ironically, even if Gold Coast or some other inter-state had taken Jhye Clark with that very same Pick 7, he probably would've requested a trade back to Geelong anyway.

The same goes for clubs in trouble like North Melbourne with Jason Horne-Francis. If he was really 'homesick', he would wager for any sort of return to SA. But of course, he wants PORT. He wants to play for a CONTENDER. Adelaide may have more to offer North, but because JHF chose Port, North have no bargaining power. They will either have to either ship away the former Number 1 pick for unders, or have to deal with a disgruntled JHF till he can leave of his own volition. They too fall victim to the 'player empowerment era'.

Current/future example: GWS landed a star in Taranto for pick 2. They developed him. He wanted to leave to Richmond. Richmond gave them pick 12 and 19. Hyopthetically, GWS lands a star in pick 12. They develop him. He wants to leave to Hawthorn. Hawthorn give them pick 16. Etc etc. Do you not see the vicious cycle unfolding here? GWS and Gold Coast are rendered mere nursing homes, because the current system gives them no power. Draft picks are meaningless to these clubs at the moment, so giving them more draft picks won't help, it'll just give the powerhouses more chances to establish dynasties.

Yes, anyone would've snatched the Bowes deal if they had a chance, Hawthorn included. That's not the point. The system is fundementally broken. I'm sick of Bowes, of Cameron, of Dangerfield, of Hopper, of Lynch, of Prestia snaking their way to premiership clubs, who aren't punished in salary for making the acquisition. Think Bowes and Pick 7 as Kevin Durant to the Warriors - when will a club like Geelong ever have to rebuild, when dysfunctional clubs like Gold Coast are jumping up and down to hand them prize draft picks, and all their players are looking to end up there anyway?

The former premiers shouldn't be allowed to acquire Bowes and Pick 7 for scraps, but they will, so that's that. Now it's up to the AFL to make sure it can't happen again. Restrictions on top 2/4/8 teams from acquiring talent? Reconstruction of the free agency / trade period system? Considerably greater salary cap for GCS and GWS? Longer rookie contracts? Just anything to restore some semblance of power to clubs, because literally anything is better than what we have right now.

This is bigger than any individual club. AFL is a SHAMBLES right now, and I'm afraid without decisive action, it'll only get worse.

TL;DR... Can we get a dot point summary Salty McSalterson?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Bowes is at least an in demand 300k player.

So pick 7 is somehow worth 2 years of 500k? That’s ridiculous.

Teams would give that for pick 20 I’m sure.

Simply can’t see how the league approves this. Unless, you know, the previous previous head of football is now cats CEO and the previous head of football is the Geelong coaches brother.

The same league that approved Tom lynch ending up at richmond for free will approve this no dramas

 

[eastfreo75]

Quite interesting all the saltiness based on very good administration by the club, perhaps supporters of other teams need to look at their administrators and question what they aren't doing.

Carlton 1995 and Essendon 2000 did some good admin moves as well.

 

[MisterMarcus]

The competition is taking the piss now!
All clubs have to watch their caps super hard but the kitty litter throw coin around like it grows on trees.
I don’t buy it!
It’s not a lifestyle thing because Geelong is moe by the seaside, norlane
They don’t play for sfa either.
Very sus accounting going on.
Got to get caught eventually.

Yeah professional AFL players are totally living in houso fibros in Norlane......

 

[catman2006]

Would you want to go to present-day Essendon?

To be fair they are the team that developed them to have such an awesome opportunity to play AFL and no doubt bombers now need them.

 

[Yummy5454]

No because I very much doubt that if Bowes had picked the Hawks that we would have seen a similar post. Yet it wasn’t too long ago that the Hawks 3 peated.

I can see why opposition supporters might be frustrated. But as another Cats poster has stated - there are quite unique reasons that we are able to facilitate this deal. The irony of the competition giving it to us for being “Dad’s Army” yet we’ve won the flag and are utilising the cash freed up from some of these veterans’ retirements is wonderful!

All things are cyclical. We won’t enjoy this current situation forever. So we’ll enjoy it while we can.

Obviously you wouldn't have seen a 'similar post' if it were Hawthorn, or Essendon for that matter - both are bottom 6 teams, years away from contention and are actually able to manage Bowes' original contract. Whereas you just won the flag?

Whatever, lap it up I guess. If you want to bury your head in the sand, I can't stop you. But when another team wins the flag, and tops up their list with another AA talent from GWS, don't come crying.