News Jack Dyer Stand -Demolition Has Begun

[Ned_Flanders]

Yes indeed, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and it is not the stark and extreme examples that is of concern. Black and white issues are not what will trip us up, it is the casual drift into the grey for all the right reasons that lead to most problems in organisations.

The mere fact that we, fellow Richmond supporters who until this moment need only have the support of the club in common to get along are even having this discussion is evidence of that itself.

so we should support nothing just in case something one day happens?

for that stance, you get rid of KGI, the school, and BHF?

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

Yes indeed, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and it is not the stark and extreme examples that is of concern. Black and white issues are not what will trip us up, it is the casual drift into the grey for all the right reasons that lead to most problems in organisations.

The mere fact that we, fellow Richmond supporters who until this moment need only have the support of the club in common to get along are even having this discussion is evidence of that itself.

I refute this entirely and would suggest that actually it is black and white that causes issues, not the grey.

The world is not black and white, and neither should decision making be.

Brown and grey occur whenever the marker is the tiniest fraction from the opposite ends of the spectrum.

The fact that RFC is supporting the BH Foundation and not assuming to wipe out all beliefs and replace with Islamic ideology is a great example of this.

Anything is dangerous when it’s black or white ; the extreme at either end of the spectrum is dangerous.

As a 21st century society we have shifted to this idea that black and white take up about 49% of the spectrum each and the other 2% is grey/brown. It’s why there’s so much shouting and no progress. You can’t have one idea without the other 48% being attached to it.

It’s the reason we have ridiculous arguments thrown around like this fine example:

“Oh so you support the BH Foundation AND sexual equality/gay marriage/etc? Don’t you know that Muslims don’t allow homosexuals??”

Get some brown in ya life

 

[RFCGloryJC]

At the moment, we have a perfect blend of footy, community services, and history.
A perfect balance.
It would be a shame to destroy it.
One of the staff members has a relative who has faced multiple criminal charges.
The charges include allegations of involvement in alleged child rape.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

At the moment, we have a perfect blend of footy, community services, and history.
A perfect balance.
It would be a shame to destroy it.
One of the staff members has a relative who has faced criminal charges.
The charges include allegations of involvement in alleged child rape.

what are you implying with the last? that we should sack the worker?

 

[Heisenberg_]

what are you implying with the last? that we should sack the worker?

Guilt by association, ridiculous to think because somebody is related to a alleged scumbag they’re deemed unemployable as a result.

 

[RogerDean]

So, what's the general consensus ?























Ok I will show myself out.
















Again.

My 'consensus' is that demolishing the Jack Dyer Stand is a really unfortunate decision...stands like this are now few and far between, and those that remain are relics of our's and the suburb's heritage. Similar grandstands at Bendigo and Maryborough have been preserved as has the stand at the Junction Oval and Brunswick Street ovals. If small provincial cities can preserve such towns, why in the heck cant we. A restored and re-purposed Jack Dyer Stand would enhance our reputation as a club that understood it and the suburb of Richmond's heritage. Its one of the most visible aging grandstands in Melbourne, and properly restored would fit perfectly into the Punt Road precinct.

 

[RogerDean]

No one is disputing it needs to go from punt road, the fact its being demolished is the issue.

It was built 6 years before our very first premiership and 126 years before our last, and for some reason the current "custodians" of the club, that's al they are, custodians, in the name of progress want to demolish it.

Relocation is not a major issue apart from adding to the timeframe, either is funding.

I'm one who is disputing that it has to go!

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Yes. The Junction Oval is a perfect example of heritage preservation and new development.
A perfect balance and blend of history and state-of-the-art new facilities.
The stands are iconic.
It was the blueprint I referred to about one year ago.

 

[YeOldTiger]

#makeastand

 

[TheLoungeLizard]

We could have saved it if we weren't so stupid in the 80's and went all-bar bankrupt in the 90's and broke as shit until the start of 2010... that's 3 decades of rot and no care, the building is too far gone now.

Absolutely a different question if we had done little renos over the journey, the blame lays at the administration from 1970-2000

 

[Soberian Tiger]

The stand is probably beyond salvation. I seem to recall that there were fundraising member plaques associated with it? If so, what happens to them?

The William Cooper name has already been given to a justice centre in the legal district of the CBD. He had no link to the club, but his name would undoubtedly have helped seal a State Government grant (which is not unknown for any political party in the ascendancy). Fortunately, it is not an egregious example as Cooper is a long-deceased historical figure from up here in northern Victoria and should cause no great angst long-term.

That said, it is a slippery slope if one does not take such decisions with due caution. The club is undoubtedly well run, but the seeds of destruction are often sowed at the height of success. Those of us who were around in the seventh decade of the twentieth century (which strictly includes 1980) saw this then.

As the famous saying goes, those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[darcytiger]

I’d be really interested to hear what RFCGloryJC has to say on the topic, wish they’d let us know how they feel.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

The stand is probably beyond salvation. I seem to recall that there were fundraising member plaques associated with it? If so, what happens to them?

The William Cooper name has already been given to a justice centre in the legal district of the CBD. He had no link to the club, but his name would undoubtedly have helped seal a State Government grant (which is not unknown for any political party in the ascendancy). Fortunately, it is not an egregious example as Cooper is a long-deceased historical figure from up here in northern Victoria and should cause no great angst long-term.

That said, it is a slippery slope if one does not take such decisions with due caution. The club is undoubtedly well run, but the seeds of destruction are often sowed at the height of success. Those of us who were around in the seventh decade of the twentieth century (which strictly includes 1980) saw this then.

As the famous saying goes, those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Another great thing happens with the hindsight of history - people look at supposed “outrages” and “outlandish” changes to society that were met with opposition at the time and realise that a whole lot of fuss was made purely out of fear of change and inability to adapt.

Our society is young and people forget how dynamic it is.

So many things have changed in the last 50-125 years that were completely against the grain. Women voting, First Nations people getting the vote, the motor car becoming the primary mode of transport, prohibition, etc.

Even recently people weren’t trusting of e-commerce.... now look where we are

 

[Soberian Tiger]

Another great thing happens with the hindsight of history - people look at supposed “outrages” and “outlandish” changes to society that were met with opposition at the time and realise that a whole lot of fuss was made purely out of fear of change and inability to adapt.

Our society is young and people forget how dynamic it is.

So many things have changed in the last 50-125 years that were completely against the grain. Women voting, First Nations people getting the vote, the motor car becoming the primary mode of transport, prohibition, etc.

Even recently people weren’t trusting of e-commerce.... now look where we are

If you think that negates what I said then you're clearly either much younger, more naive or, indeed, both. Or, quite possibly, merely uninterested in moderation which may well be far closer to the truth.

In fact, it insinuates that I couldn't possibly have been in favour of any of those things, which is a spurious argument to say the least. In short, you know next to nothing about me, but I can guess one thing about you - you weren't intending to support prohibition.

Yet, you just did, because quite frankly, you didn't engage in moderation. If you had you would have worded it more carefully and realised that the introduction of prohibition (which never happened here, but in the US) was itself a change and the greater one than the end of prohibition.

And by that you proved my whole point, a point ironically made under the moniker 'Soberian.'

What a dill.

And I don't care if you don't like me saying that because I have no need to listen to you. The internet is full of cocky people who can't avoid confrontation and have to constantly correct others even if, in doing so, they show themselves to be the ones in need of correction.

It's why I only comment online here. Now I won't even bother with that. I mostly only told jokes anyway.

For the record, for the second and final time, the bloke whose statue serves as my avatar was a candidate for a particular party.

He was also the bloke who the stand was named after.

I will now close my account. Moderation on the internet is nigh on impossible because some people don't want it to be.

 

[Bojangles17]

My 'consensus' is that demolishing the Jack Dyer Stand is a really unfortunate decision...stands like this are now few and far between, and those that remain are relics of our's and the suburb's heritage. Similar grandstands at Bendigo and Maryborough have been preserved as has the stand at the Junction Oval and Brunswick Street ovals. If small provincial cities can preserve such towns, why in the heck cant we. A restored and re-purposed Jack Dyer Stand would enhance our reputation as a club that understood it and the suburb of Richmond's heritage. Its one of the most visible aging grandstands in Melbourne, and properly restored would fit perfectly into the Punt Road precinct.

It doesnt serve a purpose in the Punt rd precinct where space is precious , if it could be relocated fantastic however I’m not so sure it’s valued as highly as a few on here are upholding it

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

If you think that negates what I said then you're clearly either much younger, more naive or, indeed, both. Or, quite possibly, merely uninterested in moderation which may well be far closer to the truth.

In fact, it insinuates that I couldn't possibly have been in favour of any of those things, which is a spurious argument to say the least. In short, you know next to nothing about me, but I can guess one thing about you - you weren't intending to support prohibition.

Yet, you just did, because quite frankly, you didn't engage in moderation. If you had you would have worded it more carefully and realised that the introduction of prohibition (which never happened here, but in the US) was itself a change and the greater one than the end of prohibition.

And by that you proved my whole point, a point ironically made under the moniker 'Soberian.'

What a dill.

And I don't care if you don't like me saying that because I have no need to listen to you. The internet is full of cocky people who can't avoid confrontation and have to constantly correct others even if, in doing so, they show themselves to be the ones in need of correction.

It's why I only comment online here. Now I won't even bother with that. I mostly only told jokes anyway.

For the record, for the second and final time, the bloke whose statue serves as my avatar was a candidate for a particular party.

He was also the bloke who the stand was named after.

I will now close my account. Moderation on the internet is nigh on impossible because some people don't want it to be.

That’s a lot of words that arent entirely relevant ... all I did was point out that history is not a black and white rule book that should be followed blindly?

I think you took that personally and missed my point entirely...

Progress is the culmination of history with adaptation and growth.

We all get real settled in our nice comfortable world with all the mod cons it can be easy to forget that human life has been kicking it for a lot longer than our contemporary society.

For every reason to fear due to the lessons of history there is a lesson to be more liberal in thinking and achieve progress efficiently and/or more effectively due to the lessons of history.

I’m sure you’re a real cool dude and a nice guy with hobbies and a personality and all that great stuff but quite frankly I couldn’t give squat diddly and I didn’t insinuate anything in my post about that so don’t play with victim card

 

[RFCGloryJC]

There are three aspects to the plan.
The football team, second, the community services aspect, ie Muslim identity, and heritage.
The three aspects can all be retained.
The North Melbourne project does retain their heritage, and they have free space to build a completely new building.
The Junction Oval project does too.
The Junction Oval is a combination of heritage with state of-the-art new facilities.
Be respectful of different opinions.
Some of us have supported the club financially for 50 years or more.

 

[TIGERMANIAC]

and bummers are copying the kgi now

I think all clubs now have some sort of indigenous program. Even the filth do. RFC leads, others follow. They’re like sheep. No club connects to the community like us. Just another reason why we have 100,000 members.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

There are three aspects to the plan.
The football team, second, the community services aspect, ie Muslim identity, and heritage.
The three aspects can all be retained.
The North Melbourne project does retain their heritage, and they have free space to build a completely new building.
The Junction Oval project does too.
The Junction Oval is a combination of heritage with state of-the-art new facilities.
Be respectful of different opinions.
Some of us have supported the club financially for 50 years or more.

Only having the ability to speak for myself here but I haven’t disrespected anyone’s opinion - I’ve simply refuted claims and argued points.

As discussed earlier, everyone is entitled to an opinion but from what I’ve read in this thread there is plenty to suggest that those three aspects can be maintained and ARE, but the evidence suggests that keeping the stand is not one thing that can be achieved as part of that.

It’s great to support an organisation for 50 years, but it doesn’t give you the right to personally make decisions for the club or give more weight to an assumption that lacks evidence or input from professionals in the appropriate fields. You have your right to attend AGM’s and meetings about these discussions and object like any member - but if the consensus is to move forward based on evidence that the stand cannot be retained, then what does your 50 years of paying a fee offer in terms of further expert advice past this point?

 

[Bojangles17]

There are three aspects to the plan.
The football team, second, the community services aspect, ie Muslim identity, and heritage.
The three aspects can all be retained.
The North Melbourne project does retain their heritage, and they have free space to build a completely new building.
The Junction Oval project does too.
The Junction Oval is a combination of heritage with state of-the-art new facilities.
Be respectful of different opinions.
Some of us have supported the club financially for 50 years or more.

All points completely irrelevant . How many staff , teams , crowds are required to be accommodated at junction oval. Are you aware that No stadium development in Victoria has taken place without government support , are you suggesting with long serving members we should be an exception lol ok

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There are three aspects to the plan.
The football team, second, the community services aspect, ie Muslim identity, and heritage.
The three aspects can all be retained.
The North Melbourne project does retain their heritage, and they have free space to build a completely new building.
The Junction Oval project does too.
The Junction Oval is a combination of heritage with state of-the-art new facilities.
Be respectful of different opinions.
Some of us have supported the club financially for 50 years or more.

the north melbourne stands were demolished in 2007. the "heritage" they are protecting is 11 years old.

i own t-shirts older than the North Melbourne "heritage" building

 

[RFCGloryJC]

The child rape allegations are serious allegations.
They will not go away.

 

[Heisenberg_]

The child rape allegations are serious allegations.
They will not go away.

Yea it’s terrible, but it’s got nothing to do with Richmond

 

[Bojangles17]

The child rape allegations are serious allegations.
They will not go away.

What on earth are you suggesting that there is an implied guilt by association and action needs to be taken. What type of totalitarian regime do you think exists at Punt rd ,, best you peddle your scurrilous agenda on a paparazzi forum it’s a little out of place here

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

There’s been quite a number of human sexual predators over the last decade. I think it’s time we culled the entire human race to prevent this issue. :^)