Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[Defacto]

I like algrebra, but I like common sense more.

Which pick 5s from the last decade would you prefer to Carlisle? Travis Boak and Jake Stringer for sure, Hurley maybe... Polec? Buntine? Jarrad Grant? You keep going on about how weak this draft is - who do you think is going to be drafted at 5? I'm also guessing you don't rate guys like Mackenzie, Goddard, Dunstan, Acres, Wright, White who were all drafted 18-25 in recent years...

You continue to miss the point. It's not about trying to find a combination of picks worth pick 5. You are trading pick 5 for Jake Carlisle. What you get on top of that is to make up for pick 5 being more than he is worth. On points then getting 23 and 25 back says you value you at a pick in the mid 40s. Yeah, nah. Getting 23 back says you value him around pick 17 I think, which given the circumstances is pretty fair.

If you think pick 5 is so valuable then just keep it and let Jake Carlisle go elsewhere. I'll be surprised if whoever you draft ends up better, but since I don't go for St Kilda I don't really care one way or the other.

You didnt answer my question..

What would you prefer: pick 5 or the points of pick 5 made up in 3rd rounders?

 

[WEEVZ]

I think Stk have stated all along that pick 5 is too much in a direct swap, hence why we were trying to do a deal involving pick 5 with Adelaide to get there 9 and 13 and forward one to Ess and keep the other

It wouldn't be a direct swap of Pick 5 for Picks 9 and 13 though, would be more like Pick 5 + Pick 24 for Pick 9 + Pick 13.

 

[Defacto]

Think you are confusing us with Carlton.

Who are all these players we pillaged from smaller clubs?

Did alright exploiting freo when they joined the comp

 

[Scotland]

I think Stk have stated all along that pick 5 is too much in a direct swap, hence why we were trying to do a deal involving pick 5 with Adelaide to get there 9 and 13 and forward one to Ess and keep the other

Why would another club trade picks 9 and 13 for pick 5 when pick 5 is so valuable and the draft drops off so dramatically?

Jake Carlisle for a 4-8 pick downgrade is a gift to St Kilda.

 

[cartel]

Examples please.

1. James Gwilt

 

[bird_man]

Are we still saying GWS will part with pick 8. I dont think GWS are very keen on picks 23 and 25 for pick 8

Essendon would have done this deal on Friday if it were possible.

They'll use 7 on Hopper and then their is a strong chance they won't have to use pick 8 on Kennedy so they'll be able to get another top end talent with 8 and then use later picks to get Kennedy. If Kennedy get nominated in the top 8 they don't lose a lot.

They'll also be getting enough picks from other trades that they won't even have to think about Essendons picks.

I may be missing something, but why risk missing out on a top 8 player to do Essendon a favour?

 

[WEEVZ]

Are we still saying GWS will part with pick 8. I dont think GWS are very keen on picks 23 and 25 for pick 8

Not saying its 100% going to happen, I'm just saying given the new bidding system and potential bids for Hopper, Kennedy and Himmelberg, etc. its reasonable to assume that they would at least consider swapping Pick 8 for 23 & 25 as collectively those picks combined give them more "points" to bank on in the bidding process.

 

[Scotland]

Did alright exploiting freo when they joined the comp

What, like Lloyd and Lucas?

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

1. James Gwilt

LOL, 1 example and it's a player YOU delisted, so wasn't even yours.

 

[WEEVZ]

Essendon would have done this deal on Friday if it were possible.

They'll use 7 on Hopper and then their is a strong chance they won't have to use pick 8 on Kennedy so they'll be able to get another top end talent with 8 and then use later picks to get Kennedy. If Kennedy get nominated in the top 8 they don't lose a lot.

They'll also be getting enough picks from other trades that they won't even have to think about Essendons picks.

I may be missing something, but why risk missing out on a top 8 player to do Essendon a favour?

We'd be doing them a favour really, more points for them to use on academy bids. Strong chance that both of Hopper and Kennedy could be bid on by potentially every club within the Pick 3-6 range (doubt Carlton and Brisbane would bid given Weitering and Schache seem to be locks to go at their respective picks).

 

[WEEVZ]

1. James Gwilt

James Gwilt was a delisted free agent. Try again.

 

[cartel]

LOL, 1 example and it's a player YOU delisted, so wasn't even yours.

That's the joke.

Lol, I think 5 for Carlisle and 23 in a reasonable trade but I am honestly bemused that the supporters of a club who has cheated the salary cap and run a peptides program like Essendon has can bleat about fairness.

 

[WEEVZ]

That's the joke.

Lol, I think 5 for Carlisle and 23 in a reasonable trade but I am honestly bemused that the supporters of a club who has cheated the salary cap and run a peptides program like Essendon has can bleat about fairness.

Carlton and Adelaide were the ones who cheated the salary cap you numpty not Essendon.

EDIT: Carlton did it years ago though so not sure how much bearing that has, but either way.

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

That's the joke.

Lol, I think 5 for Carlisle and 23 in a reasonable trade but I am honestly bemused that the supporters of a club who has cheated the salary cap and run a peptides program like Essendon has can bleat about fairness.

Every club has cheated the Salary cap, Essendon Carlton were so ****ing stupid they didn't own up when there was an Amnesty.

So far we've been found not guilty of breaking any WADA regulated codes.

Nice cheap shot though.

 

[Defacto]

Not saying its 100% going to happen, I'm just saying given the new bidding system and potential bids for Hopper, Kennedy and Himmelberg, etc. its reasonable to assume that they would at least consider swapping Pick 8 for 23 & 25 as collectively those picks combined give them more "points" to bank on in the bidding process.

I think its a very very small possibility hence why the saints want all three as i think 14 plus a 2nd rounder is more likely

 

[cartel]

Carlton and Adelaide were the ones who cheated the salary cap you numpty not Essendon.

EDIT: Carlton did it years ago though so not sure how much bearing that has, but either way.

• In 1996, Essendon were fined a record $638,250 ($250,000 in back tax and penalties, $112,000 for draft tampering and $276,250 for breaching the salary cap regulations), forfeited their first, second and third round picks in the National Draft and were excluded from the 1997 rookie and pre-season drafts after a joint Australian Tax Office and AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totalling $514,500 between 1991 and 1996, including $110,000 in 1993 when Essendon won the premiership.[10]

30 second search m8.

 

[Defacto]

That's the joke.

Lol, I think 5 for Carlisle and 23 in a reasonable trade but I am honestly bemused that the supporters of a club who has cheated the salary cap and run a peptides program like Essendon has can bleat about fairness.

Gold!

 

[Ceanag]

Not saying its 100% going to happen, I'm just saying given the new bidding system and potential bids for Hopper, Kennedy and Himmelberg, etc. its reasonable to assume that they would at least consider swapping Pick 8 for 23 & 25 as collectively those picks combined give them more "points" to bank on in the bidding process.

The thing is picks 23 & 25 will soon belong to the Saints and then its our problem how we on trade them.
Either that our we get Jakey boy for free.
No matter what,Saints will come out winners in this deal.
Its up to Essendon whether or not we win by a small fraction or a total reaming.

 

[Defacto]

So dodoro is out of contract hey...

 

[WEEVZ]

I think its a very very small possibility hence why the saints want all three as i think 14 plus a 2nd rounder is more likely

Still not a fair deal though, as effectively you're asking the Bombers to pay for everything you want which again isn't going to happen. Being realistic about it, Freeman should only cost you a 2nd rounder (Pies asking for too much if they want more). It'll be Carlisle + one 2nd rounder for Pick 5 and thats what it'll be, asking for more is belligerent on the Saints part (bordering on delusional).

 

[bird_man]

We'd be doing them a favour really, more points for them to use on academy bids. Strong chance that both of Hopper and Kennedy could be bid on by potentially every club within the Pick 3-6 range (doubt Carlton and Brisbane would bid given Weitering and Schache seem to be locks to go at their respective picks).

So how many extra points will they be getting with your two second rounders?

What if Kennedy is not nominated in the top 7? (Highly possible) they will pretty much be giving up a top 8 draftee for a few extra points? Not to mention they'll probably have more picks from other trades.

I'm not an expert on all this but to me that seems like a silly move by GWS?

 

[WEEVZ]

The thing is picks 23 & 25 will soon belong to the Saints and then its our problem how we on trade them.
Either that our we get Jakey boy for free.
No matter what,Saints will come out winners in this deal.
Its up to Essendon whether or not we win by a small fraction or a total reaming.

Picks 23 and 25 will not both belong to the Saints, as you will have already heard had your ears not been stuffed full of cotton wool, we have refused that "offer" if you could even call it an offer. *rolls eyes* I'll say again Carlisle will not be going into the pre-season draft, continually implying it will not make it happen. AFL media has all pretty much said the Saints are acting pig headed in these discussions, if it goes to mediation the end result will not reflect kindly on the St Kilda footy club.

 

[Defacto]

Still not a fair deal though, as effectively you're asking the Bombers to pay for everything you want which again isn't going to happen. Being realistic about it, Freeman should only cost you a 2nd rounder (Pies asking for too much if they want more). It'll be Carlisle + one 2nd rounder for Pick 5 and thats what it'll be, asking for more is belligerent on the Saints part (bordering on delusional).

No you are expecting the saints to subsidise your access to pick 5

We dont have to trade pick 5

Clubs that lose a player in most cases end up on the rough end

If nothing gets done we keep pick 5 and you get nothing

 

[WEEVZ]

So how many extra points will they be getting with your two second rounders?

What if Kennedy is not nominated in the top 7? (Highly possible) they will pretty much be giving up a top 8 draftee for a few extra points? Not to mention they'll probably have more picks from other trades.

I'm not an expert on all this but to me that seems like a silly move by GWS?

20 I think its not much, but you never know. Every little bit helps.
The issue is its looking more and more likely that the Giants will wind up going into draft debt and that could really hurt them going forward as far as bidding on players, etc.
Not sure, I'm curious to see how it'll all play out really.

 

[Defacto]

20 I think its not much, but you never know. Every little bit helps.
The issue is its looking more and more likely that the Giants will wind up going into draft debt and that could really hurt them going forward as far as bidding on players, etc.
Not sure, I'm curious to see how it'll all play out really.

They will get more 2nd rounders etc that will stop that happening IMO

I think its been over played