Traded Jason Horne-Francis [to Port Adelaide in multi-club trade]

[philthy05]

Are GWS looking to use picks 3, 12, 15, 18 and 19 purely for the draft? Or do they want to get some players in via trade?

Maybe we could upgrade pick 33 or 43 for one those later picks and offer up Byrne-Jones or Bonner?

We genuinely need to trade away a player for 2nd round. Can't see it happening another way.

Hayes, Drew, Bonner, DBJ, Farrell. DBJ with most value in that lot perhaps as an All-Australian and club BnF although he was off it best this year. I know he just resigned but yeah either him or Drew

In all seriousness North have actually done fine out of this deal. So have West Coast. GWS showed up, bent over and handed over the lube to make it work for everyone else, and I salute them for it.

Yeah I think north have done well. What more can you hope for to get for a player that wants out than a similar pick + a future 1st on top. That’s a good deal.

Also west coast, despite people knocking them to get out of pick 2 and the private school vic boys and into hewett territory , whose not far behind, if at all those vic boys plus get another pick. That’s good for them.

Ports given up a lot, but the fact we get future 2nds and 3rds back helps a lot,

In the end rozee butters jhf Bergman sinn to look forward too in our midfield.

I really rate that group of players as a future midfield. High end young talent there.

 

[Mr Kitch]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades + Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

Perhaps swap WCE getting the PA 2023 1st and North getting pick 8?
However it’s still too big a price for PA to pay.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Everyone is seeing this as a binary decision.

He stays at North and living in Melbourne or he goes to Port.

I think there's a 3rd path that works for North and works for JHF if they're both prepared to be a bit unorthodox and patient.

North and JHF go to the AFL and get permission to play for South Adelaide in the SANFL. North still pay him his minimum draftee deal. South Adelaide pay him SANFL money. He starts an apprenticeship or study. They hire a personal trainer to top up his SANFL trainings.

And he's available to come to North for as long as he feels like through the year. Hopefully that means at least a few weeks over preseason and then a block of training then games during the year.

There's certainly a risk that he still asks for a trade, and there's a risk that he devalues himself, but how much by? The talent will still be there and on full display in the SANFL. Much like it was with Stengle. He won't be a free agent, he'd have to have a heap go wrong to be worth less than an early first if not a similar amount than he is now.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades + Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

That's a dogshit trade and you know it. That's now getting into 3 firsts and then some territory. Of course North and WC do that, it's highway robbery. trash pick upgrades mean absolutely nothing when top 10 picks and gun players are involved. They're parlor tricks from recruiters to hide who got screwed in the trade.

 

[bird_man]

Pick 1 is extremely overated. Of the past 20 years of pick 1's and knowing the careers that they ended up having, the only players I would have traded pick 9 and pick 12ish for would be

• Murphy
• Goddard
• Walsh
• Hodge
• Riewoldt
• Weitering (maybe)

The ones that missed the cut were

• Cooney (Prime was too short)
• Rowell
• Patton
• Scully
• Deledio (Stiff)
• Mcgrath
• Rayner
• Gibbs
• Swallow
• Boyd
• Whitfield
• Kreuzer

Considering this, what would JHF be worth only 1 average year into career? I do realise that pick 9 and 12 are purely speculative but talking about JHF as if he is a proven commodity is silly.

Well he's contracted and only a year into his career so I'd say 9, 12 and either a 2nd rounder or young player taken around that mark.

Uncontracted might be a different scenario but I'm sure Port would have known that North would ask a lot for him when they went after him.

The fact that they already have 9 and a future first on the table shows they aren't far off

 

[jakey]

Port's will clearly have to offer plenty. But IMHO there's maybe a 1/3 chance Bergman winds up having a better AFL career than JHF.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades

19

Mitch Georgiades

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

2.0

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

2.0

5star

+ Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

Nope.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Port's will clearly have to offer plenty. But IMHO there's maybe a 1/3 chance Bergman winds up having a better AFL career than JHF.

Jakey maffs:
Burgerman good at footy but not good as Horne Francis = 33% chance burgerboy be better than Horney Boy

 

[jakey]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades + Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

Young KPF with runs on the board is
2 first rounders territory. So you're valuing JHF at roughly 4 first rounders...lol

 

[longdonkey]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades + Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

That means we give away 2 first round picks plus a first round player. It will be the biggest trade price ever paid and a higher price than what the Crows or Richmond offered last year.

 

[Freomaniac]

Well I think 8, F1 and 27 will get the JHF deal done.

I'm not arguing against that.

But I think people need to focus on the pick rather than the round.

Pick 9 is a first rounder but its a long way off pick 3

And while Kennedy was slow off the mark he was still very highly rated. I doubt recruiters only look at footywire and compare stats when valuing players.

I doubt Georgiades will ever reach Kennedy heights

You have posted on the North Melbourne board.

What North are offering in a 3 way trade involving Port, Eagles and North is nuts. LoL

Some how north just only loses JHF but somehow gets eagles picks 2 and 20 and another teams future first

 

[philthy05]

If you want to nitpick, there were some quality players taken just after that bracket that you conveniently left out

Danger, McEvoy, Rance, Taylor, Rioli, Ward

No one can predict how a draft will end up in 10 years time but this draft hasn't been talked up as one of the best either

And Josh Kennedy went on to become an all time great for WC

Let's not also forget that Carlton held pick one in the national draft which made it difficult for West Coast to push for any more

I can't see a deal for 9 and a future first being enough. Power will need to add a sweetener.

You asserted that the pick given up for judd was pick 3 and worth more than 8.

I pointed out that it was one of the all-time weak drafts and the players available at 3 were not super talents as a counter argument.

I’m not sure what there is to disagree about there.

I’m stating stuff that is widely accepted. It’s merely a footnote on that trade.

 

[jakey]

Jakey maffs:
Burgerman good at footy but not good as Horne Francis = 33% chance burgerboy be better than Horney Boy

Bergman's AFL career to date is significantly better the JHFs.

 

[Freomaniac]

I don't normally have a crack at hypotheticals, however with the recent news dropping I need something to cheer me up. Welcome to my masterpiece.

TRADE 1
WCE Out: Pick 2 & Pick 20
WCE In: Pick 8 & Georgiades
PORT Out: Pick 8, Pick 27 (Amon Compo), 2023 1st Rnd & Georgiades
PORT In: JHF & 20
NTH Out: JHF
NTH In: Pick 2, Pick 27, 2023 1st Rnd

TRADE 2
NTH Out: Pick 27 (Amon Compo) + 2023 PP 3rd Rnd
NTH In: Clark
STS Out: Clark
STS In: Pick 27 + 2023 PP 3rd Rnd

TRADE 3
NTH Out: TT
NTH In: Pick 5, Pick 7, Bowes (full salary dump)
GCS Out: Pick 5, Pick 7, Bowes
GCS In: TT

TRADE 4
NTH Out: 2023 PP 2nd Rnd
NTH In: Logue + Tucker
FREO Out: Logue + Tucker
FREO In: 2023 PP 2nd Rnd

TOTAL NTH
Out: JHF, TT, 2023 PP Rnd 2 & 2023 PP Rnd 3
In: Pick 2, Pick 5, Pick 7, 2023 1st Rnd (Port), Bowes, Clark

Yeah that trade one is awesomeness LoL

 

[Rockford]

If you’re going to nitpick, that draft was arguably one of the worst of all time.

The players that went from pick 3-8 were..

Masten, Morton, grant, Myers, Palmer and Henderson

You would take pick 8 in this draft over 3 in that draft any day of the week.

Some of the players that went after Pick 8 in that draft: Dangerfield, Rioli, Harry Taylor, McEvoy, Rance, Ward...

 

[perplexed]

Why are you asking people to ignore that he underperformed this year?


It’s entirely relevant.

Port will likely be very generous, cause that’s what they do, but arguing that jhf’s form this season should be ignored is strange.


Does this only apply to north players, or can anyone argue in a trade that the last year should be ignored if they underperformed?

His underperformance is grossly exaggerated. He is an inside bull in the Martin / Dangerfield mold. Compare his first year to theirs and he looks amazing.

 

[master bate]

This is genuinely the most ridiculous thing I’ve read.

Why? We used to see guys in year 12 stay home until they finished school - champion players like Dangerfield and Hannebery. Before that we had decades of players stay in their home states before having a crack at the VFL. Now, we have the mid season draft, with players moving states in the middle of a season.

In baseball top picks stay in the minor leagues. In basketball, players get sent to the G League and Europeans stay in Europe until they come over.

North aren't winning the flag next year, that's hardly news, in terms of results they won't miss JHF if he doesn't play most of the year. North also surely don't want to trade this generational talent before he's had a chance to grow up a little. Unless they're offered the kind of deals they got last year (3 x quality firsts) they're much better off doing anything they can to keep him.

So here's a solution to let the kid get over his homesickness without any immediate stress and reassess in 12 months time. Best case scenario he gets to March next year and plays the year out at North.

 

[philthy05]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades + Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

That’s ****ing horrendous for port.

So we give up pick 8, a future 1st, and a great young kf?

That’s the biggest trade haul ever, by a fair margin.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

All #1 picks are hyped up I don’t know how you can quantify him being the most, it’s just recency bias and to be fair his first season has been been well below the hype.
I don’t see port doing much next year in regards to moving up or down the ladder so I’d say next years first is around the same as pick 8. The AFL actually constructed a metric as to value draft picks and the two pick 8’s are collectively higher than one pick 1.
Your right about having some on field leadership though, but unless our players want to move it’s next to impossible. Besides, I would think depending on the player, one first rounder plus’s player would be sufficient.

I would ignore the metric.
Very few recruiters would take 2 pick 8s over pick 1 so that tells you something.

 

[philthy05]

His underperformance is grossly exaggerated. He is an inside bull in the Martin / Dangerfield mold. Compare his first year to theirs and he looks amazing.

I never said he was shit, just that he underperformed, and asked why we should ignore that as the poster insisted.

 

[bird_man]

You asserted that the pick given up for judd was pick 3 and worth more than 8.

I pointed out that it was one of the all-time weak drafts and the players available at 3 were not super talents as a counter argument.

I’m not sure what there is to disagree about there.

I’m stating stuff that is widely accepted. It’s merely a footnote on that trade.

Just pointing out that no one can predict how a draft will end up in 10 years time and that this year's draft is also seen as not a strong one.

And as I mentioned, there was some of the all time club greats taken later in the first round, just not at pick 3. Some of that's on the recruiters really.

Not sure I'd call a draft that had Dangerfield, Rioli, Rance, Cotchin, McEvoy, Taylor all in the first round a weak one...

I'm not sure what there is to disagree about there.

 

[philthy05]

Some of the players that went after Pick 8 in that draft: Dangerfield, Rioli, Harry Taylor, McEvoy, Rance, Ward...

That’s still a weak draft. That a few players went in a draft doesn’t counter my point, and certainly when the relevant part of the draft is the area they were picking

Ie pick 3

 

[PrisonBars4life]

You do realise you are asking for the reigning no1 draft pick do you? We trade him to you and you have the potential to see 15 years service to your club and basically his whole career develop minus his first year. What Taranto is going for is more then fair and neither tigers or gws fans would disagree.

Name any pick 1 from the past 15 years who is worth more than 8,F1, and 27 not including Sam Walsh. If you reckon JHF is playing until 34, then Richmond are getting Taranto for 10 years. Richmond also don't get the risk of having to develop something that isn't there yet, and of the 5 years they missed out of Tarranto's career, 2 of them include his first year which is always a development year and the 2nd which is always a transitional year of being good (but not great) (15 and 20 disposal years). So Richmond get a known quantity and only lose 3 years of being a top tier player and get 10 years out of him for 12+ 19. But yeah, we should pay considerably more than that because JHF was picked one spot higher than Tarranto.

 

[Lore]

Everyone is seeing this as a binary decision.

He stays at North and living in Melbourne or he goes to Port.

I think there's a 3rd path that works for North and works for JHF if they're both prepared to be a bit unorthodox and patient.

North and JHF go to the AFL and get permission to play for South Adelaide in the SANFL. North still pay him his minimum draftee deal. South Adelaide pay him SANFL money. He starts an apprenticeship or study. They hire a personal trainer to top up his SANFL trainings.

And he's available to come to North for as long as he feels like through the year. Hopefully that means at least a few weeks over preseason and then a block of training then games during the year.

There's certainly a risk that he still asks for a trade, and there's a risk that he devalues himself, but how much by? The talent will still be there and on full display in the SANFL. Much like it was with Stengle. He won't be a free agent, he'd have to have a heap go wrong to be worth less than an early first if not a similar amount than he is now.

I assume this is your take on what happened with Dangerfield when he was first drafted - stayed in Vic to complete Year 12 then went to Adelaide for his second year.

But... y tho? If you're going to trade him in 12 months anyway, wouldn't you just get it done before his value drops any further? It would be an incredibly salty thing to do if the only motivation is to prevent him playing for anyone else.

You'd have to be pretty confident that the reasons for needing to be in SA were temporary and would be resolved by the end of next year, with the kid committed to staying after that – which would mean a contract extension.

 

[philthy05]

Just pointing out that no one can predict how a draft will end up in 10 years time and that this year's draft is also seen as not a strong one.

And as I mentioned, there was some of the all time club greats taken later in the first round, just not at pick 3. Some of that's on the recruiters really.

Not sure I'd call a draft that had Dangerfield, Rioli, Rance, Cotchin, McEvoy, Taylor all in the first round a weak one...

I'm not sure what there is to disagree about there.

The depth of this draft is questioned, not the pointy end ie top 10.

 

[Themanbun]

Name any pick 1 from the past 15 years who is worth more than 8,F1, and 27 not including Sam Walsh. If you reckon JHF is playing until 34, then Richmond are getting Taranto for 10 years. Richmond also don't get the risk of having to develop something that isn't there yet, and of the 5 years they missed out of Tarranto's career, 2 of them include his first year which is always a development year and the 2nd which is always a transitional year of being good (but not great) (15 and 20 disposal years). So Richmond get a known quantity and only lose 3 years of being a top tier player and get 10 years out of him for 12+ 19. But yeah, we should pay considerably more than that because JHF was picked one spot higher than Tarranto.

If he ain't that good then you don't chase him when in contract. Simple.