Traded Jason Horne-Francis [to Port Adelaide in multi-club trade]

[philthy05]

Are GWS looking to use picks 3, 12, 15, 18 and 19 purely for the draft? Or do they want to get some players in via trade?

Maybe we could upgrade pick 33 or 43 for one those later picks and offer up Byrne-Jones or Bonner?

We genuinely need to trade away a player for 2nd round. Can't see it happening another way.

Hayes, Drew, Bonner, DBJ, Farrell. DBJ with most value in that lot perhaps as an All-Australian and club BnF although he was off it best this year. I know he just resigned but yeah either him or Drew

In all seriousness North have actually done fine out of this deal. So have West Coast. GWS showed up, bent over and handed over the lube to make it work for everyone else, and I salute them for it.

Yeah I think north have done well. What more can you hope for to get for a player that wants out than a similar pick + a future 1st on top. That’s a good deal.

Also west coast, despite people knocking them to get out of pick 2 and the private school vic boys and into hewett territory , whose not far behind, if at all those vic boys plus get another pick. That’s good for them.

Ports given up a lot, but the fact we get future 2nds and 3rds back helps a lot,

In the end rozee butters jhf Bergman sinn to look forward too in our midfield.

I really rate that group of players as a future midfield. High end young talent there.

 

[philthy05]

I think the important part of that trade is that the top 10 pick was pick 3, not 9

And Josh Kennedy was taken with pick 4

Port don't have a high first round pick. It's a middle of the first round pick.

I do agree that hoping for Sinn is probably asking for too much, but I also think that pick 9 and a future pick that could end up even lower than that doesn't quite cut it either.

They need something more.

There's no way any club that held pick one would trade it for 9 and a future first, especially when Port probably under achieved this year and could be playing finals again next year.

If you’re going to nitpick, that draft was arguably one of the worst of all time.

The players that went from pick 3-8 were..

Masten, Morton, grant, Myers, Palmer and Henderson

You would take pick 8 in this draft over 3 in that draft any day of the week.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

That is ridiculous overs…

Every team starts with ridiculous overs/unders.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PrisonBars4life]

2 firsts sounds good until its pick 9 and pick 13 14 15 (port will play finals next year ) for a contracted pick 1 only 12 months ago. If you take this year out of it as evedent by his attitude in a struggling team and away from home being home sick (pick 1 goes to the worse team the shock horror) and go by his draft year those 2 first are absolutely unders, every team in the comp would chuck players out to pay pick 9 and a mid teens pick for him

Tarranto just went for 12 and 19. You don't get to just take out the only AFL form JHF has. Pick 15 had us top 4 next year we'll finish 6-12 for mine. You have as much chance as getting pick 6 or 7 as you do 15. Most likely 10-12.

 

[philthy05]

If you take this year out of it

Why are you asking people to ignore that he underperformed this year?


It’s entirely relevant.

Port will likely be very generous, cause that’s what they do, but arguing that jhf’s form this season should be ignored is strange.


Does this only apply to north players, or can anyone argue in a trade that the last year should be ignored if they underperformed?

 

[Wild Bill]

I imagine your 2023 R1 will be the first thing we request given the strength of next years draft

100%.

 

[Shinboner roo]

That is ridiculous overs…

It is atm but JHF could be anything

Tarranto just went for 12 and 19. You don't get to just take out the only AFL form JHF has. Pick 15 had us top 4 next year we'll finish 6-12 for mine. You have as much chance as getting pick 6 or 7 as you do 15. Most likely 10-12.

TT was out of contract and being pushed out by the Giants

 

[Shinboner roo]

Why are you asking people to ignore that he underperformed this year?


It’s entirely relevant.

Port will likely be very generous, cause that’s what they do, but arguing that jhf’s form this season should be ignored is strange.


Does this only apply to north players, or can anyone argue in a trade that the last year should be ignored if they underperformed?

A 18 year old kid struggled living away from home and playing in a garbage side all year with his temperment/attitude would have a fair bearing on his output don't you think?

 

[PrisonBars4life]

I think the important part of that trade is that the top 10 pick was pick 3, not 9

And Josh Kennedy was taken with pick 4

Port don't have a high first round pick. It's a middle of the first round pick.

I do agree that hoping for Sinn is probably asking for too much, but I also think that pick 9 and a future pick that could end up even lower than that doesn't quite cut it either.

They need something more.

There's no way any club that held pick one would trade it for 9 and a future first, especially when Port probably under achieved this year and could be playing finals again next year.

Josh Kennedy had played 23 games in 2 years at Carlton and averaged 6 possessions 0.5 goals in that time. Literally no one would have traded pick 4 for him at that point. Pick 3, 20 and some guy who might have still been valued at mid-late 1st rounder for a 23 year old who had a Brownlow, was the best player in the league at that time, and ended up being the 2nd best midfielder of the past 20+ years. Carlton still lost out on the deal, so why should we pay as much for a guy that was dropped twice this year?

 

[bird_man]

If you’re going to nitpick, that draft was arguably one of the worst of all time.

The players that went from pick 3-8 were..

Masten, Morton, grant, Myers, Palmer and Henderson

You would take pick 8 in this draft over 3 in that draft any day of the week.

If you want to nitpick, there were some quality players taken just after that bracket that you conveniently left out

Danger, McEvoy, Rance, Taylor, Rioli, Ward

No one can predict how a draft will end up in 10 years time but this draft hasn't been talked up as one of the best either

And Josh Kennedy went on to become an all time great for WC

Let's not also forget that Carlton held pick one in the national draft which made it difficult for West Coast to push for any more

I can't see a deal for 9 and a future first being enough. Power will need to add a sweetener.

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

There's a couple of them up for trade this Spring...

Bryce Gibbs was a generational talent. Turned out to be a solid A grader for a few seasons. Point is that generational talents very rarely live up to expectations and JHF is no exception.

 

[Mr Kitch]

As I said - 8, 2023 R1 and Sinn/Bergman will be our starting point imo.

Would need to give back 2023 R2 ( about pick 19) to get closer. I think if Bergman is involved, just pick 8 with him would be fair. IMO he’s a known quantity and possibly a better bet than a pick in the teens next year.

 

[master bate]

Everyone is seeing this as a binary decision.

He stays at North and living in Melbourne or he goes to Port.

I think there's a 3rd path that works for North and works for JHF if they're both prepared to be a bit unorthodox and patient.

North and JHF go to the AFL and get permission to play for South Adelaide in the SANFL. North still pay him his minimum draftee deal. South Adelaide pay him SANFL money. He starts an apprenticeship or study. They hire a personal trainer to top up his SANFL trainings.

And he's available to come to North for as long as he feels like through the year. Hopefully that means at least a few weeks over preseason and then a block of training then games during the year.

There's certainly a risk that he still asks for a trade, and there's a risk that he devalues himself, but how much by? The talent will still be there and on full display in the SANFL. Much like it was with Stengle. He won't be a free agent, he'd have to have a heap go wrong to be worth less than an early first if not a similar amount than he is now.

 

[bird_man]

Josh Kennedy had played 23 games in 2 years at Carlton and averaged 6 possessions 0.5 goals in that time. Literally no one would have traded pick 4 for him at that point. Pick 3, 20 and some guy who might have still been valued at mid-late 1st rounder for a 23 year old who had a Brownlow, was the best player in the league at that time, and ended up being the 2nd best midfielder of the past 20+ years. Carlton still lost out on the deal, so why should we pay as much for a guy that was dropped twice this year?

Not many key forwards come out and dominate from day one. He was still very highly rated at the time and held plenty of value.

Judd was also uncontracted and Carlton held pick one in the national draft as I mentioned.

No club would trade their pick one for pick 9 and a future first that could end up lower, so why would North?

Power will need some kind if sweetener. Whether it's a young player or another pick.

Those two picks will be the basis of the deal but it won't be it

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Everyone is seeing this as a binary decision.

He stays at North and living in Melbourne or he goes to Port.

I think there's a 3rd path that works for North and works for JHF if they're both prepared to be a bit unorthodox and patient.

North and JHF go to the AFL and get permission to play for South Adelaide in the SANFL. North still pay him his minimum draftee deal. South Adelaide pay him SANFL money. He starts an apprenticeship or study. They hire a personal trainer to top up his SANFL trainings.

And he's available to come to North for as long as he feels like through the year. Hopefully that means at least a few weeks over preseason and then a block of training then games during the year.

There's certainly a risk that he still asks for a trade, and there's a risk that he devalues himself, but how much by? The talent will still be there and on full display in the SANFL. Much like it was with Stengle. He won't be a free agent, he'd have to have a heap go wrong to be worth less than an early first if not a similar amount than he is now.

This is one of the wildest things I’ve ever read on this website.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

A 18 year old kid struggled living away from home and playing in a garbage side all year with his temperment/attitude would have a fair bearing on his output don't you think?

On that basis, do you think his output is going to be better next year? There is zero chance he goes up in value and a bad year for him would see you lucky to get more than a 1st. Posturing and asking for basically more than any other trade ever isn't going to work out for you. Port supporters seem to think we're about to offer you more than clubs got for Neale, Cerra, Tarranto, Dangerfield. Quite a bit more actually. That is us being exceptionally fair and already reflects the fact that he is in contract and was No 1 last year. He's absolutely not worth 8, F1, and 27, but we'll pay it.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Not many key forwards come out and dominate from day one. He was still very highly rated at the time and held plenty of value.

Judd was also uncontracted and Carlton held pick one in the national draft as I mentioned.

No club would trade their pick one for pick 9 and a future first that could end up lower, so why would North?

Power will need some kind if sweetener. Whether it's a young player or another pick.

Those two picks will be the basis of the deal but it won't be it

Mitch Georgiades has a better record than Kennedy after 3 years. Much much better. Daylight better. If Georgiades is uncontracted, how much do we get for him?

I've said elsewhere, the pick trade is a false one. People are emotionally attached to pick 1, but the player almost never meets reality. With the benefit of hindsight, Pick 8, F1, and 27 gets you every player taken at 1 in the last 15 years except Sam Walsh. Most clubs would bite your arm off for that offer. JHF has shown nothing to dispel the notion that he'll be another pretty good but not every close to the best in his draft type player.

 

[Shinboner roo]

On that basis, do you think his output is going to be better next year? There is zero chance he goes up in value and a bad year for him would see you lucky to get more than a 1st. Posturing and asking for basically more than any other trade ever isn't going to work out for you. Port supporters seem to think we're about to offer you more than clubs got for Neale, Cerra, Tarranto, Dangerfield. Quite a bit more actually. That is us being exceptionally fair and already reflects the fact that he is in contract and was No 1 last year. He's absolutely not worth 8, F1, and 27, but we'll pay it.

If he really is home sick and sturggled to settle in melbourne as it has been mentioned to be the case absolutely, he will be the player the club/ oppo recruiters talked him up to be. Make no mistake he will be a gun for Port and you will have him for 15 years

 

[longdonkey]

Get ready to be disappointed if you think that's a starting point

It's funny my starting point is G*t F*****d and I'll see you next year with our second and Bonner

 

[hotchilli]

Everyone is seeing this as a binary decision.

He stays at North and living in Melbourne or he goes to Port.

I think there's a 3rd path that works for North and works for JHF if they're both prepared to be a bit unorthodox and patient.

North and JHF go to the AFL and get permission to play for South Adelaide in the SANFL. North still pay him his minimum draftee deal. South Adelaide pay him SANFL money. He starts an apprenticeship or study. They hire a personal trainer to top up his SANFL trainings.

And he's available to come to North for as long as he feels like through the year. Hopefully that means at least a few weeks over preseason and then a block of training then games during the year.

There's certainly a risk that he still asks for a trade, and there's a risk that he devalues himself, but how much by? The talent will still be there and on full display in the SANFL. Much like it was with Stengle. He won't be a free agent, he'd have to have a heap go wrong to be worth less than an early first if not a similar amount than he is now.

This is genuinely the most ridiculous thing I’ve read.

 

[Blugazi]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades

19

Mitch Georgiades

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

2.0

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

2.0

5star

+ Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

 

[matty lloyd the champ]

Not many key forwards come out and dominate from day one. He was still very highly rated at the time and held plenty of value.

Judd was also uncontracted and Carlton held pick one in the national draft as I mentioned.

No club would trade their pick one for pick 9 and a future first that could end up lower, so why would North?

Power will need some kind if sweetener. Whether it's a young player or another pick.

Those two picks will be the basis of the deal but it won't be it

Pick 1 is extremely overated. Of the past 20 years of pick 1's and knowing the careers that they ended up having, the only players I would have traded pick 9 and pick 12ish for would be

• Murphy
• Goddard
• Walsh
• Hodge
• Riewoldt
• Weitering (maybe)

The ones that missed the cut were

• Cooney (Prime was too short)
• Rowell
• Patton
• Scully
• Deledio (Stiff)
• Mcgrath
• Rayner
• Gibbs
• Swallow
• Boyd
• Whitfield
• Kreuzer

Considering this, what would JHF be worth only 1 average year into career? I do realise that pick 9 and 12 are purely speculative but talking about JHF as if he is a proven commodity is silly.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

If he really is home sick and sturggled to settle in melbourne as it has been mentioned to be the case absolutely, he will be the player the club/ oppo recruiters talked him up to be. Make not mistake he will be a gun for Port and you will have him for 15 years

Obviously we think he will be, but he won't be at North. If you can't get the best out of your players we don't owe you what they could be worth at Port. If he's not going to succeed at North, then the posturing is a bit moot. You take a fistful of picks and be glad you got rid of him before his career stalls like a Lachie Whitfield and you'll be paying 800k a year to keep him. He didn't make your team better this year so you're not losing anything and you can control the draft over the next 2 years to rebuild like you were going to be doing anyway. If JHF is a gun and you use the picks well, we both win. If JHF is nothing more than a good player and you nail the draft, then you laugh at us. If JHF is a gun and you **** up your drafting, that's on you. If JHF turns out to be meh and you screw your drafting then 16 clubs laugh at both of us but you lost nothing. Plenty of outcomes where you either win or don't lose.

 

[bird_man]

Mitch Georgiades has a better record than Kennedy after 3 years. Much much better. Daylight better. If Georgiades is uncontracted, how much do we get for him?

I've said elsewhere, the pick trade is a false one. People are emotionally attached to pick 1, but the player almost never meets reality. With the benefit of hindsight, Pick 8, F1, and 27 gets you every player taken at 1 in the last 15 years except Sam Walsh. Most clubs would bite your arm off for that offer. JHF has shown nothing to dispel the notion that he'll be another pretty good but not every close to the best in his draft type player.

Well I think 8, F1 and 27 will get the JHF deal done.

I'm not arguing against that.

But I think people need to focus on the pick rather than the round.

Pick 9 is a first rounder but its a long way off pick 3

And while Kennedy was slow off the mark he was still very highly rated. I doubt recruiters only look at footywire and compare stats when valuing players.

I doubt Georgiades will ever reach Kennedy heights

 

[Mr Kitch]

Any chance or something like this working - perhaps one of West Coast's second round picks goes to North or Port with a third round coming back..

Jason Horne-Francis > PORT
Mitch Georgiades + Pick 8 > WCE
Pick 2 + Port Adelaide’s 2023 first round pick > NTH

Seems to favour WCE. They only drop 6 places in the draft and gain Georgiades who is a gun. Port would lose 2 first round selections and Georgiades to get JHF. Too much for them to give I think.

 

[philthy05]

The “port will finish high” brigade probably don’t watch or know a thing about port.


We’re still going to have the same coach who is an anvil around our neck, have a ageing mediocre backline, and if Hinkley ****s around the rucks again that will be a mess.



Maybe we do well. Our draw might be easier. We might have a good run with key injuries. We might have a very good year.. it’s far from certain

The only thing I consider extremely unlikely is a bottom four finish. We’ve got too much talent to drop that low..

We could finish anywhere from 4th to 14th but if I had money I would bet on us finishing between 5th and 11th next year.

Not good enough and not bad enough.

- poor coach with gameplan going nowhere and bad selection decisions

- ruck disaster (club has said they’ll back in lycett again and that’s bad)

- average key defensive group that is just getting older

Those things can be remedied quickly post 2023. But don’t see us being top 4 next year unless some of those things above change drastically