South Am Javier Milei. Here we go again.

[100action]

Not a comfort for people who suffer irreversible physical damage from malnourishment, to find that there is no health service to rely on for their care.

Bonza work, mate!

A healthy economy fixes this.

A hyperinflating regime with an expanding national debt from deficit spending that you are advocating for would mean all of their population are living like that.

Those that do not learn from history are destined to repeat it fren.

Caused a recession and managed to reduce inflation by a fraction. Recessions halt inflation all by themselves, they don't need a balanced budget. He could probably get inflation down by another 20% if he shrinks the economy another 5%.

It also spiked up to 200, from 100 when he was first elected in Oct 2023. So it's still higher than when he was elected and inflation spiked in anticipation of the austerity measures.

You could absolutely do that bet, you could buy 5y Argentinian Bonds, or invest in Argentinian stock market indices.

Argentina Government Bonds - Yields Curve

Argentina Government Bonds and Yields Curve. Updated charts and tables, agencies ratings, spread comparisons, current prices.

www.worldgovernmentbonds.com

Of course the incumbent regime is going to run up the money printers when he his first elected, it's the last opportunity for the crooks to enrich family/friends by spending money on useless projects / government salaries.

Notice how inflation has declined shortly after his inauguration?

"recession halt inflation all by themselves"

What?

You understand when a government prints enough money to cause hyperinflation, this overwhelms normal supply/demand dynamics and the currency hyperinflates in any case? If there are only a finite amount of goods/services available, but the monetary supply expands rapidly, then regardless of a recession, the finite goods/services will cost more by virtue of Wittgenstein's Ruler.

Argentina was very much hyperinflating.

The German Reich was in a recession in the 20's, it then hyperinflated with disastrous consequences. I wonder what it could have been? surely not the government expanding its monetary supply in an uncontrolled fashion.

 

[Chief]

A healthy economy fixes this.

A healthy economy fixes irreversible physical damage and automatically provides for the care of these people?

Is the economy of the US healthy?

 

[100action]

A healthy economy fixes irreversible physical damage and automatically provides for the care of these people?

yes

 

[Chief]

yes

Irreversible means permanent. Permanent means forever.

 

[IlovethePies]

Austerity has failed before. Only the Chicago schoolers still adhere to it's theories.

From bad to worse? The effect of Javier Milei’s presidency on Argentina's economy %page

Argentina's new preseident Javier Milei came to power promising to make significant cuts to the size of the state. What effect have those cuts had?

mancunion.com

In his first meeting with a foreign head of state, President-elect Donald Trump hosted fascist Argentine President Javier Milei at a gala dinner on Thursday at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida.

Trump presented Milei as his star guest and a model in a statement delivered before his fellow MAGA oligarchs, declaring to applause: “The job you’ve done is incredible. Make Argentina Great Again, you know, MAGA. He’s a MAGA person.”

Don't think it's only the chicago scholars who agree with what Milei is carrying out.

Trump intends to model himself upon it when he takes over in 6 weeks.

 

[hawkinoz]

Normal Argentinian leftists are fixing Milei and changing the world one haka scream at a time.

Wonder how the weird right looks at these normies.

 

[Chief]

Don't think it's only the chicago scholars who agree with what Milei is carrying out.

Trump intends to model himself upon it when he takes over in 6 weeks.

Trump's uncle was an economist. He absorbed that genetically.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

"recession halt inflation all by themselves"

What?

Yes, massive collapses in demand do tend to restrict the growth of prices.

You understand when a government prints enough money to cause hyperinflation, this overwhelms normal supply/demand dynamics and the currency hyperinflates in any case?

That's only if they keep printing money. All of Milei's orders to stop printing money have not had the desired effect of killing inflation quickly. They have created poverty and malnutrition though. And cut retirement benefits by 50%, so more pensioners will starve. And slashed capital investment, so economic growth in future will be lower than it could have been.

Even if inflation comes down now, there is serious damage to human capital by children having stunted growth and necessary investments in education and infrastructure not being made. If you care about inflation to the exclusion of everything else, then everything else will suffer in the crusade against inflation.

 

[100action]

Yes, massive collapses in demand do tend to restrict the growth of prices.


That's only if they keep printing money. All of Milei's orders to stop printing money have not had the desired effect of killing inflation quickly. They have created poverty and malnutrition though. And cut retirement benefits by 50%, so more pensioners will starve. And slashed capital investment, so economic growth in future will be lower than it could have been.

Even if inflation comes down now, there is serious damage to human capital by children having stunted growth and necessary investments in education and infrastructure not being made. If you care about inflation to the exclusion of everything else, then everything else will suffer in the crusade against inflation.

We're going in circles here, these points below that have been mentioned cover most of your arguments

• Argentina was hyperinflating (discussions around normal inflation is irrelevant)
• Money printed prior to his inauguration takes time to be fully spent and trickle into the economy. The fact that the Peso stopped hyperinflating within one year of him taking the reigns due to policy positions against debasement is so incredibly impressive
• He is one year into his term, sound money policy pays off in the long term.
• A hyperinflating currency = complete breakdown of the economy = everyone suffers

Your argument re an 8%-10% increase in the poverty rate in his limited term is unusual. If anything this is likely a remnant of legacy socialist policy making and governance structures that will take time to phase out.

Argentina's poverty rate is at 52%. Even on the unreasonable basis the 8%-10% increase in poverty since Milei's inauguration can be attributed entirely to him, what does this say about the economic socialists that embraced peronism responsible for the remaining 42%?

Going by this logic, for every child having serious damage and stunted growth (spare me), the socialists have created four more.

Socialists have committed some of the greatest crimes against humanity in history (from absolute genocide, meatgrinder war tactics, endless poverty, famine, you name it)

They're every bit in the same bracket (or even a rung worse) than fascists, don't be on the wrong side of history.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

• Argentina was hyperinflating (discussions around normal inflation is irrelevant)

No, they're not irrelevant. It depends how much the money supply continues to increase.

• Money printed prior to his inauguration takes time to be fully spent and trickle into the economy.

Why didn't he give an order to prevent its distribution?

• The fact that the Peso stopped hyperinflating within one year of him taking the reigns due to policy positions against debasement is so incredibly impressive

The peso is still hyperinflating. They're at 190% inflation still.

• He is one year into his term, sound money policy pays off in the long term.

You don't survive to the long term if you don't have food in the short term. Not that Milei cares how many people starve to death as long as the magic numbers come up the way he wants.

• A hyperinflating currency = complete breakdown of the economy = everyone suffers

There's more than one way to manage hyperinflation.

Your argument re an 8%-10% increase in the poverty rate in his limited term is unusual. If anything this is likely a remnant of legacy socialist policy making and governance structures that will take time to phase out.

Everything good is a result of Milei and everything bad is a result of somebody else. Got it.

Argentina's poverty rate is at 52%. Even on the unreasonable basis the 8%-10% increase in poverty since Milei's inauguration can be attributed entirely to him, what does this say about the economic socialists that embraced peronism responsible for the remaining 42%?

I'm not an apologist for other political parties in Argentina. Their incompetence is a different subject to Milei starving people.

Going by this logic, for every child having serious damage and stunted growth (spare me),

Ah, so you're indifferent to human suffering too, like your hero Milei.

the socialists have created four more.

Does it occur to you that there are different scales of poverty, and not everyone in the 52% faces the exact same material circumstances? The economic decline that results in going from 42% to 52% poverty means life got even harder for the 42%, especially with the mass withdrawal of welfare measures designed to provide some material help for the 42%. The bottom 10% of that 42% probably went from having some food on the table to none.

Of course, those who are obsessed with statistics over critical thinking either remain blissfully ignorant to this or just don't care.

Socialists have committed some of the greatest crimes against humanity in history (from absolute genocide, meatgrinder war tactics, endless poverty, famine, you name it)

And? Bad governments exist from all ideologies. If you want to pretend the left everywhere are all some amorphous mass that are responsible for each other's crimes and failings, your view of the world is too warped to have a serious conversation in good faith with.

They're every bit in the same bracket (or even a rung worse) than fascists, don't be on the wrong side of history.

This is apologism for fascism. You disgust me.

 

[100action]

No, they're not irrelevant. It depends how much the money supply continues to increase.


Why didn't he give an order to prevent its distribution?


The peso is still hyperinflating. They're at 190% inflation still.


You don't survive to the long term if you don't have food in the short term. Not that Milei cares how many people starve to death as long as the magic numbers come up the way he wants.


There's more than one way to manage hyperinflation.


Everything good is a result of Milei and everything bad is a result of somebody else. Got it.


I'm not an apologist for other political parties in Argentina. Their incompetence is a different subject to Milei starving people.


Ah, so you're indifferent to human suffering too, like your hero Milei.


Does it occur to you that there are different scales of poverty, and not everyone in the 52% faces the exact same material circumstances? The economic decline that results in going from 42% to 52% poverty means life got even harder for the 42%, especially with the mass withdrawal of welfare measures designed to provide some material help for the 42%. The bottom 10% of that 42% probably went from having some food on the table to none.

Of course, those who are obsessed with statistics over critical thinking either remain blissfully ignorant to this or just don't care.


And? Bad governments exist from all ideologies. If you want to pretend the left everywhere are all some amorphous mass that are responsible for each other's crimes and failings, your view of the world is too warped to have a serious conversation in good faith with.


This is apologism for fascism. You disgust me.

1. Irrelevant - hyperinflation throws out regulating mechanics that controls normal inflation.
2. This just shows a complete lack of understanding of how the economy works. If it has already left the first spender between Milei being elected and inaugurated, then he can't control it.
3. Down from 280% - absolute miracle worker. Reductions of this scale don't happen with hyperinflating currencies unless serious changes are being made.
4. No there isnt. Significantly slowing if not eliminating currency debasement is the only way.
5. Milei in his one year term is responsible for all pain and suffering resultant from legacy regime practice/policies - got it
6. He isn't starving people, he saved them from a worse fate (hyperinflation).
7. Non-sequitur
8. Non-sequitur. The amount of people starving under a 42% poverty rate would be higher than that from an additional 8% increase even if you scaled for it. The amount of people that would be starving if he allowed the currency to hyperinflated would be the biggest national disaster in modern times.
9. Non-sequitur
10. I don't believe the left is bad - in fact their positions on Climate Change, personal freedoms, the environment etc are OK. Thank you for projecting equivalence of the left to socialism though.
11. Non-sequitur. The horrendous crimes against humanity committed by socialists is so confronting that rather than attempt to understand it, you elect to flee from the truth. Your denial reflects a dark, sad and miserable soul.

 

[Chief]

Argentina's poverty rate is at 52%. Even on the unreasonable basis the 8%-10% increase in poverty since Milei's inauguration can be attributed entirely to him, what does this say about

What does it say about the myriad of alternatives to starving people and halting investment?

 

[Todman]

There's more than one way to manage hyperinflation.

Can you describe how to manage hyperinflation?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Can you describe how to manage hyperinflation?

Unidade real de valor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Blue1980]

Seems those who are fans of Milei here largely like him as people who they hate don’t like him.

Extreme austerity and rampant capitalism is never going to go well for 99% of people.

 

[Festerz]

Milei has been president of Argentina for a year now and The Economist magazine had a very balanced review of his presidency in its last issue.

To understand Milei's popularity - and yes he does have support from a large chunk of the Argentine population and not just the top echelon and commercial sector with his poll ratings rising and he is now at mid term more popular than his predecessors - you need to understand the economy he inherited. Argentina has been in a free fall spiral downwards for decades and is the only country in modern economic history to have tumled out of rich word status to middle tier. Milei was elected on a platform to reverse this decline and to overturn a situation where successive governments have handed out patronage and privilege and printed money in a flailing attempt to cover over the economic chaos that resulted.

As promised, he has cut red tape and opened up markets that were notoriously corrupt and ill functioning from housing rentals to transport. The level of business default has halved and inflation (the enemy of the poor and the working class) has fallen from 13% a month to 3%. And unlike the Trump policy agenda, Mileis economic reform agenda is consistent and coherent, like them or not.

But yes, his Thatcher-esque free market approach has huge risks. The large cut in public spending has seen the poverty rate jump to 53% in the first half of 2024 from 40% a year earlier. Some retuning of his anti-public spending agenda would help redress that but there is no sign Milei is contemplating that.

As The Economist summarises, the risk to Milei will come from his stubbornness to fine tune his agenda and he could struggle to govern if resistance the working poor continues to build and the Peronist opposition starts to reorganise as an opposition.

But make no mistake, the tough economic reforms he campaigned on and subsequently introduced on coming to power are vital to Argentina digging itself out of the economic and social abyss created by previous governments over decades.

 

[BigPond101]

Argentina breaking all kinds of records for lowest ever inflation and poverty. Chief in tatters.

 

[spinynorman]

Javier Milei is trying to push through reforms that will increase the work day to 12 hours, with no overtime.

It will also allow companies to pay workers partially with tickets that can only be used at supermarkets or specific designated businesses.

Sounds great!

Article in Spanish.

 

[Saint]

Argentina breaking all kinds of records for lowest ever inflation and poverty. Chief in tatters.

Lowest inflation in a while, highest poverty rates ever.

Do people not understand that Argentina has had this form of Government before?

"Argentina has been in freefall downward spiral for decades" is the kind of "analysis" which has no basis in fact. If it had been spiralling for decades, surely they would be in complete poverty by now?




It's like when people blindly state that Sth Africa has "collapsed" under the ANC and since apartheid ended, but in fact they have flourished and almost every indicator is positive.

is the only country in modern economic history to have tumled out of rich word status to middle tier

This is also nonsense. They were rich only if you didn't count any of the poor people.

 

[BigPond101]

Lowest inflation in a while, highest poverty rates ever.

Do people not understand that Argentina has had this form of Government before?

"Argentina has been in freefall downward spiral for decades" is the kind of "analysis" which has no basis in fact. If it had been spiralling for decades, surely they would be in complete poverty by now?

View attachment 2198507
View attachment 2198516

It's like when people blindly state that Sth Africa has "collapsed" under the ANC and since apartheid ended, but in fact they have flourished and almost every indicator is positive.


This is also nonsense. They were rich only if you didn't count any of the poor people.

"Before" when ? There was a government who talked about a few similar themes in the late 90s, so almost 30 years ago, who cares. Also they were establishment types who talked without any action. Milei is doing stuff. Also your poverty figures are all total lies.

 

[Saint]

"Before" when ? There was a government who talked about a few similar themes in the late 90s, so almost 30 years ago, who cares. Also they were establishment types who talked without any action. Milei is doing stuff. Also your poverty figures are all total lies.

Another post completely devoid of facts or reference to any facts. Pretty on-brand for this type of politics/economics.

It was the 90's the people there remember, even if you and other hardline neolibs preferred they didn't.