JFK Assassination: What is the Truth?

[The Punter]

General Curtis LeMay saw Kennedy as a pushover and was urging him to invade Cuba and first strike the Soviets.

LeMay was easy to ignore because he was so out there. LeMay supported a first strike strategy without the provocation of something like the Missile Crisis. But ignoring Bundy, Taylor, Johnson, and others who were at that time saying the same thing as LeMay was more difficult. Kennedy managed it, and we're all here today.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Specific submarine situation aside, of course JFK prevented nuclear war, as did all the US Presidents post-Truman did as well. But Kennedy's insistence on a diplomatic solution to the Cuban Missile Crisis in the face of overwhelming advice to invade Cuba and remove the missiles by force saved the world. For any criticisms of the Kennedy Presidency that may be made, they pale into insignificance when his achievement during October 1962 are taken into account.

There were two achievers , when you remember that Khrushchev had US missiles under his belly in Europe , perhaps it was a way of saying, look you are as bad already as we are in Cuba just now. What ever you think or thought of the USSR they definitely had something to worry about, but that would be Stalins fault , because NATO etc was set up to protect against Soviet aggression.
No I 'd say Kennedy agreeing to the removal of missiles from out of Turkey I think, saved the world as two men realised the nonsense.
Nonsense also would have been a military operation to take out the Cuban (SOVIET) missiles by force, indeed that would start a war, and Kennedy must have eased the minds of the Hawks, and told them to pull his their heads in.

One thing is for sure thank god for that Russian Captain, who decided to wait and find out, same as the debacle that nearly started world war three when middle ranking Soviet officers realised the warning of mass nuclear missile attack was a glitch of enormous proportians , when some one in the Soviet regime thought the NATO war game being carried out in Western Europe was actually a full scale attack from the west on USSR.

IT WASN'T!!! But steady heads in the USSR MILITARY IN THE REGION CALLED ALL RETALIATION OFF, how close that was , 1983. I bet a lot of people still don't know about that.

So when we look at the Russian military commanders NOW in Ukraine, and the way they have conducted themselves, maybe the status quo would have been the smartest way to go and the Soviets, remained , because Russia has now shown what a violent and rampaging leadership and in the main a most incompetent military and a very mentally unwell or physically unwell President Putin, with that fool threatening nuclear tactics.
Really he uses a Nuke in Ukraine his soldiers get killed by fallout radiation as a west wind blows it into his own territory at some time or other, I think perhaps Krushchev may have been a much better to be heading Russia instead of the maniac there right now. ,

 

[maroon and blue]

The JFK assassination is considered by a majority of Americans as not being committed by Oswald. When the Warren report came out it was seen as a cover up. Having been to the book depository and the kill zone the first thing you notice is that the area is TINY. The grassy knoll. right angled road and buildings are all within spitting distance of each other. And the point at which Oswald fired the fatal shot seems incredulous. Apparently he let the car drive right past him and only fired when the car is at his far right side near the knoll. The cavalcade was changed from a more secure route to the fatal one at the last moment as well. Many, many people who were present at the time of the shooting plus others who were privy to their testimonies died in what frankly must be called suspicious. And as far as Ruby shooting Oswald if you watch the footage of Oswald in the corridor he is literally held in front of Ruby by the law.

 

[yebiga]

petty sure the whole magic bullet theory was debunked long time ago, cant remember the full details but

• JFK was sitting much high that Connally, accounts for the oddd angles it hits both men
• Connally had turned to speak to JFK/Jackie, hense why both men hit in right shoulder, also bullets bounce off of bones etc so taht how ended up in leg

Best theory i heard was that LHO hit JFK twice but the shot that exploded his head was an accidental discharge from a secret service agent, who panic after the first shot. Also explains the difference angle. This also explains the whole mystery about the brain going missing, secret service covered their ass as it was one of their bullets in his brain.

Watch the Zapruta film vey carefully - frame 310-313 and you can see the shooter - he is right there.

 

[JackFlash]

I think Oswald was definitely involved, I don't think he was alone. There were two gunmen at different locations behind the picket fence on the knoll. One in the Texas Book Depository (Oswald) and one on the 3rd floor of the Dal-Tex Building.
It took a minimum of 2.3 seconds in tests to reload and fire the alleged murder weapon, so if you take 0 as the time of the first shot, it is possible to reload and fire another twice in less than 6 seconds.
BUT the available evidence suggests that more than 3 shots were fired from more than one direction. 4 shots fired? While it's possible to make the shot from the Texas Book Depository there were other shots fired from different locations.
I love conspiracy theories. They make great movies, and docos and are always a good read. I've said time and again that, in my version of a perfect world, every conspiracy theory would be true. That can't be possible, of course, because most conspiracy theories are built firmly upon a foundation of misinformation and insanity. Oswald was killed by Ruby and we will never know who was involved. He wasn't innocent, but somebody left him
high and dry.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Oswald was a patsy. Whether he was involved in the shooting or just the planning it was clear he was involved somehow. It's fascinating all the twists and turns in this case, unfortunately one of the USA's best Presidents lies dead at the end of it all. Multiple assassinations that changed the course of history for the worst (JFK, RFK, MLK and even Malcolm X).

Post WW2 the US was running all around the world with their dirty ops/black ops with coups, assassinations, undermining democratic movements etc. It's not a stretch to think some of these guys decided to bring it home to get rid of a President who was not only castrating them but threatening to splinter them into a thousand pieces.

 

[The Punter]

The jump from "the US were involved in some shady stuff and Oswald was close to some of it" to "we can prove parts of the US Government killed their own President" is the one that has never satisfactorily been made. Garrison couldn't do it, the movie based on him couldn't really do it, and no one else has really done it and it's almost 60 years since the event took place.

 

[sherb]

I've always been fascinated by this event, ever since seeing this documentary in the late 80s. I've given up holding a firm position on who the assassin(s) was/were, but I've never dropped the position that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone.

A bit of trivia - the doco below was produced by Godley & Creme (of 10cc).

 

[JoondalupJ]

The JFK assassination is considered by a majority of Americans as not being committed by Oswald. When the Warren report came out it was seen as a cover up. Having been to the book depository and the kill zone the first thing you notice is that the area is TINY. The grassy knoll. right angled road and buildings are all within spitting distance of each other. And the point at which Oswald fired the fatal shot seems incredulous. Apparently he let the car drive right past him and only fired when the car is at his far right side near the knoll. The cavalcade was changed from a more secure route to the fatal one at the last moment as well. Many, many people who were present at the time of the shooting plus others who were privy to their testimonies died in what frankly must be called suspicious. And as far as Ruby shooting Oswald if you watch the footage of Oswald in the corridor he is literally held in front of Ruby by the law

Great comment I don't really know how the American public see Oswald and the Warren Report , I do know most people where I come from don't believe Oswald was any more than a set up!
And Ruby ???
Well how could he get where he did, so yes it will be an unknown and I have never been to the site of the assassination, as you have, there are so many theories and the secret service accidental shooting theory, well I don't know whether that was correct or not.
But it seems to me that something much bigger was going on , and the cover up was essential, that I would more than likely think people in high places knew more than they could ever say! So we will never know?

 

[maroon and blue]

Great comment I don't really know how the American public see Oswald and the Warren Report , I do know most people where I come from don't believe Oswald was any more than a set up!
And Ruby ???
Well how could he get where he did, so yes it will be an unknown and I have never been to the site of the assassination, as you have, there are so many theories and the secret service accidental shooting theory, well I don't know whether that was correct or not.
But it seems to me that something much bigger was going on , and the cover up was essential, that I would more than likely think people in high places knew more than they could ever say! So we will never know?

You will never know the true events of the assassination or you will trust your own objectivity. My advice is go with your gut feeling.

 

[revo333]

If you have an interest in the assassination and oyu're ever near Dallsa get into Dealey Plaza, walk around and visit the Sixth Floor Museum. Will probaby give you a new perspective.

Barely any traffic when I was there in 2013, was able to stand on the road and soak it all in.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I've been watching the 4 part extended version of JFK Revisited, the Oliver Stone doco that came out last year.

I just can't see how anyone can believe Oswald committed this on his own - it seems implausible.

There was definitely a cover-up, the question is why and why continue to keep records classified after 60 years?

 

[Power Raid]

I've been watching the 4 part extended version of JFK Revisited, the Oliver Stone doco that came out last year.

I just can't see how anyone can believe Oswald committed this on his own - it seems implausible.

There was definitely a cover-up, the question is why and why continue to keep records classified after 60 years?

I've always wondered if "mind control" had anything to do with it




and there is no way he acted alone in my opinion

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I've always wondered if "mind control" had anything to do with it




and there is no way he acted alone in my opinion

Allegedly in the RFK assassination (Sirhan Sirhan?) though I know far less about that.

I don't think Oswald was subject to MK-Ultra type experiments I think he was an intelligence agent/useful idiot used as a patsy. I doubt whether he was even involved in the actual shooting though it is possible he was.

What I want to know is whether there is any link between Bush Snr and the CIA around that time, some of the names thrown around the JFK assassination turn up in subsequent scandals like Watergate, Iran-Contra and the War on Terror. In my mind that is the only reason to keep documents sealed all these decades later.

While watching JFK Revisited I thought the only plausible explanation for the cover-up (assuming the Oswald lone nut theory is correct) is that the US government desperately wanted to pin it on Oswald to prevent any potential links to Cuba/USSR coming out and needed a verdict regardless of the strength of evidence. That doesn't really hold up for me though as there would be no need to continue to keep the records sealed.

 

[The Punter]

The recent Stone doco has some really good stuff on the autopsy, which remains one of the all-time, hall-of-fame, worst conducted autopsies in human history.

As far as Oswald or others... we've reached the productive end of that conversation. There is no more illumination left.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

As far as Oswald or others... we've reached the productive end of that conversation. There is no more illumination left.

Not as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The Punter]

Not as far as I'm concerned.

Keep holding out hope there is a document somewhere with the answer... I don't think there is. We know all the evidence that points one way or another. I'm not sure who did it. There remains a wide range of possible explanations that vary from unlikely to ridiculous.

 

[Power Raid]

Not as far as I'm concerned.

my gut feel is the story would have unfolded by now, especially with many involved/ in the know are probably dead given the time (30yo at the time plus 60 years)

 

[Angry Red Bull]

A very illuminating fact (proven by photographs) is that Johnson (the then vice president) on the cusp of criminal charges for corruption was crouching in the seat of his follow car so as not to be able to be assassinated as double cross. The whole trip, listening to his radio it is said out of sight. Links to the mob. I don't think we'll ever know the shooter or shooters but I suspect it was a combination of parties. The then girlfriend says he had a meeting with the mobsters and oil barons the night before the assassination.

It wasn't a shot from grassy knoll either. That shot was 45° angle to the point of impact AND JFK had his head tilted down and slightly to the left meaning ANY shot from that angle would exit left side of his head not the right side rear as it did. The most recent scientific analysis I've watched (sorry tried to find video again but couldn't ) was that the shooter was in bushes to left of the underpass and that the shot pierces the windscreen left side near top (evidence of this hole) and hits JFK at the angle from right side to create the exit it did in the rear. Persuasive.

 

[The Punter]

A very illuminating fact (proven by photographs) is that Johnson (the then vice president) on the cusp of criminal charges for corruption was crouching in the seat of his follow car so as not to be able to be assassinated as double cross. The whole trip, listening to his radio it is said out of sight. Links to the mob. I don't think we'll ever know the shooter or shooters but I suspect it was a combination of parties. The then girlfriend says he had a meeting with the mobsters and oil barons the night before the assassination.

It wasn't a shot from grassy knoll either. That shot was 45° angle to the point of impact AND JFK had his head tilted down and slightly to the left meaning ANY shot from that angle would exit left side of his head not the right side rear as it did. The most recent scientific analysis I've watched (sorry tried to find video again but couldn't ) was that the shooter was in bushes to left of the underpass and that the shot pierces the windscreen left side near top (evidence of this hole) and hits JFK at the angle from right side to create the exit it did in the rear. Persuasive.

Robert Caro is the greatest biographer of all time. He's found out stuff about LBJ no one else could find. If he says he couldn't find anything credible linking LBJ to the assassination, that's good enough for me.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Lots of evidence linking him. Testimony of his the girlfriend. Also a finger print on book depository where Oswald was unidentified at the time but has in March 1998 been positively identified as that of William Wallace. He was Johnson hired thug who was responsible for multiple murders all
sanctioned by Johnson. Both Robert Kennedy and Jacqui Kennedy confronted LBJ after JFKs death because that's who they had considered responsible. Difficult to say there was no link. LBJ was quoted after that meeting to which I referred as saying to his girlfriend ......"after tomorrow those bastards (the Kennedys) are no longer going to plague him" there is a tape somewhere which shows this.

Why on earth would the only finger print found and subsequently identified be that of William Wallace? .....the hired thug of LBJ

 

[Father Jack]

Lots of evidence linking him. Testimony of his the girlfriend. Also a finger print on book depository where Oswald was unidentified at the time but has in March 1998 been positively identified as that of William Wallace. He was Johnson hired thug who was responsible for multiple murders all
sanctioned by Johnson. Both Robert Kennedy and Jacqui Kennedy confronted LBJ after JFKs death because that's who they had considered responsible. Difficult to say there was no link. LBJ was quoted after that meeting to which I referred as saying to his girlfriend ......"after tomorrow those bastards (the Kennedys) are no longer going to plague him" there is a tape somewhere which shows this.

Why on earth would the only finger print found and subsequently identified be that of William Wallace? .....the hired thug of LBJ

There might be lots of evidence linking him to all sorts of things, but without any links of your own to any of that evidence, how are we to know it actually exists?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

There might be lots of evidence linking him to all sorts of things, but without any links of your own to any of that evidence, how are we to know it actually exists?

Fair comment

 

[CD Xbow]

Lots of evidence linking him. Testimony of his the girlfriend. Also a finger print on book depository where Oswald was unidentified at the time but has in March 1998 been positively identified as that of William Wallace. He was Johnson hired thug who was responsible for multiple murders all
sanctioned by Johnson. Both Robert Kennedy and Jacqui Kennedy confronted LBJ after JFKs death because that's who they had considered responsible. Difficult to say there was no link. LBJ was quoted after that meeting to which I referred as saying to his girlfriend ......"after tomorrow those bastards (the Kennedys) are no longer going to plague him" there is a tape somewhere which shows this.

Why on earth would the only finger print found and subsequently identified be that of William Wallace? .....the hired thug of LBJ

Pretty sure it was Malcom Wallace, not William Wallace who was the famous Scottish nationalist Braveheart. I agree LBJ is the most likely instigator and while there are a few hints to his involvement unfortunately overall the evidence is not compelling.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Pretty sure it was Malcom Wallace, not William Wallace who was the famous Scottish nationalist Braveheart. I agree LBJ is the most likely instigator and while there are a few hints to his involvement unfortunately overall the evidence is not compelling.

Yeah sorry.

A finger print of Wallace where Oswald was in book depository. LBJ girlfriend talking about meeting with mafia and oil barons the night before. LBJs comment about never again having to deal with those bastards (the Kennedys) in advance of assassination. His crouching in the footwell of follow car not to be double crossed with his assassination too. He having a motive.....if he didn't get rid of Kennedy he was soon to be in jail for his corruption. His being able to control the Warren Commission direction composition and outcome. It was even said that it was imperative there be only one shooter (hence the reliance by Warren about Oswald) because if there were two it becomes a conspiracy and therefore a federal matter outside the control of his Texas law enforcement and LBJ .

None of this is definitive proof but is indeed compelling as to who was a driving force. Mafia admitted involvement years later. CIA admitted involvement years later too. Kennedy had no hope of surviving that trip.