JFK Assassination: What is the Truth?

[Baltimore Jack]

Was There a Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago? : The JFK Assassination

FBI warned of a plot by 4 right-wing extremists; Thomas Arthur Vallee was arrested just as Kennedy's visit to Soldier Field, Chicago, was cancelled

www.22november1963.org.uk

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The Mafia and the CIA (and its predecessor the OSS) have a long history of working together

Among many, some of their better known joint operations include:

• The invasion of Sicily in WW2
• The support of the Batista Government in Cuba
• The Bay of Pigs Invasion
• The importation and sale of Cocaine in the USA

 

[ferball]

Allegedly in the RFK assassination (Sirhan Sirhan?) though I know far less about that.

There was a psychiatrist/psychologist known as Jolyon West.

Interesting weirdo who supposedly worked for SJ Gottilieb and was involved with Jack Ruby, Sirhan Sirhan, Charles Manson, Patty Hearst and Timmy McVeigh. Dunno if he was involved with Jim Jones or not.

Allegedly he claimed in the 50s that he could program someone to assassinate a public figure without their knowledge. But I dunno how much truth there is to that claim.

 

[mr bagcroft]

The Mafia and the CIA (and its predecessor the OSS) have a long history of working together

Among many, some of their better known joint operations include:

• The invasion of Sicily in WW2
• The support of the Batista Government in Cuba
• The Bay of Pigs Invasion
• The importation and sale of Cocaine in the USA

Yes.
And recently Michael Franzese (Ex Colombo family) in a recent speaking engagement said as much, CIA/Mob hit.

 

[Seeds]

Sounds like jfk was accidently shot by a junior cia member in the car behind once harvey started shooting. All the evidence points to this. Just an accident the cia had to cover up as it would of destroyed the agency if the truth got out.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Sounds like jfk was accidently shot by a junior cia member in the car behind once harvey started shooting. All the evidence points to this. Just an accident the cia had to cover up as it would of destroyed the agency if the truth got out.

I first heard this theory a few years ago. Sounds like an absolute lot of garbage to me.

 

[Seeds]

I first heard this theory a few years ago. Sounds like an absolute lot of garbage to me.

How so? Oswald clearly didnt shoot him. So it was either a deliberate assasination that was covered up or an accident that was covered up. The person who investigated this theory and came to this conclusion that it is almost certainly true was the dectective who caught ivan milat. I.e. an expert not a conspiracy theorist. What do you believe?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

How so? Oswald clearly didnt shoot him. So it was either a deliberate assasination that was covered up or an accident that was covered up. The person who investigated this theory and came to this conclusion that it is almost certainly true was the dectective who caught ivan milat. I.e. an expert not a conspiracy theorist. What do you believe?

I think it is ridiculous to believe Oswald acted alone. I also think this theory about an "accidental" killing came up years later as just another theory to muddy the waters.

On the balance of probabilities I think it was an intelligence assassination to enact a coup in the US. US intelligence was undertaking similar operations around the globe since the 50's (since WW2 really) and they were emboldened to think they could get away with it on home soil. They did.

 

[Seeds]

I think it is ridiculous to believe Oswald acted alone. I also think this theory about an "accidental" killing came up years later as just another theory to muddy the waters.

On the balance of probabilities I think it was an intelligence assassination to enact a coup in the US. US intelligence was undertaking similar operations around the globe since the 50's (since WW2 really) and they were emboldened to think they could get away with it on home soil. They did.

Um but there was no coup. A democrat leader replaced JFK.

accidents do sometimes happen. Humans always want to downplay the likelihood of accidents because it makes the world less ordered and uncertain.

 

[Father Jack]

Um but there was no coup. A democrat leader replaced JFK.

accidents do sometimes happen. Humans always want to downplay the likelihood of accidents because it makes the world less ordered and uncertain.

Yes, we're hard wired to see patterns in randomness which has generally worked out well for us except in situations where there is just actual randomness or the pattern is so complex it's beyond our understanding. It's why we have religions.

 

[BlueE]

“The Kill Shot”: New Documentary Exposes Covert Operations Leading Up to JFK’s Assassination

The untold story of JFK, Lee Harvey Oswald, Fidel Castro, a young girl in love, and a medical doctor found dead at home.

vigilantnews.com

 

[Partridge]

How so? Oswald clearly didnt shoot him. So it was either a deliberate assasination that was covered up or an accident that was covered up. The person who investigated this theory and came to this conclusion that it is almost certainly true was the dectective who caught ivan milat. I.e. an expert not a conspiracy theorist. What do you believe?

That it was Oswald. Alone.

Reasons? Plenty. Tons of evidence. And he was a complete nutcase.

 

[BlueE]

I think it is ridiculous to believe Oswald acted alone. I also think this theory about an "accidental" killing came up years later as just another theory to muddy the waters.

On the balance of probabilities I think it was an intelligence assassination to enact a coup in the US. US intelligence was undertaking similar operations around the globe since the 50's (since WW2 really) and they were emboldened to think they could get away with it on home soil. They did.

One thing all Americans agree on, no matter what race or political party they support, more than 60% (and up to 80% at times) don't believe in the lone gunman theory.



The video I linked above, connecting Oswald to intelligence services running clandestine operations to kill Castro, is very much interesting.

It's based on two initially unrelated books. One by a young genius, who at 19 was offered a place directly in Tulane medical school, if she spent the he summer in New Orleans working on a cancer cure project.

She met Oswald, they both were given jobs in the CIA front company (not known to her then), started on the same day, while they worked in an "off campus" lab collecting mouse tumour samples.

Oswald assisted while she dissected and processed the 'promising' tumour samples.

Lee and Me by Judith Vary Baker.

 

[GreyCrow]

As a sideboard to all this there was a dinner/meeting/party the night before - where it is alleged 4 Presidents were in Dallas on the 21st with 3 at the party

Kennedy

Johnson
Bush Sr
Nixon

Along with Hoover and Clyde

JFK Theory: Texas Oil Men

Just before John F. Kennedy was assassinated he upset people like Clint Murchison and Haroldson L. Hunt when he talked about plans to submit to Congress a tax reform plan designed to produce about $185,000,000 in additional revenues by changes in the favourable tax treatment until then accorded...

spartacus-educational.com

 

[Demonic Ascent]

As a sideboard to all this there was a dinner/meeting/party the night before - where it is alleged 4 Presidents were in Dallas on the 21st with 3 at the party

Kennedy

Johnson
Bush Sr
Nixon

Along with Hoover and Clyde

JFK Theory: Texas Oil Men

Just before John F. Kennedy was assassinated he upset people like Clint Murchison and Haroldson L. Hunt when he talked about plans to submit to Congress a tax reform plan designed to produce about $185,000,000 in additional revenues by changes in the favourable tax treatment until then accorded...

spartacus-educational.com

Future President and CIA-chief George HW Bush can't have been there - he doesn't remember where he was or what he was doing when Kennedy was murdered.

 

[The Punter]

The CIA stuff is a nice entree into conspiracy stuff regarding the JFK Assassination, but it doesn't lead anywhere concrete. The US government were into some bad stuff, and the CIA was leading the charge. The proven connection to the JFK Assassination is speculative at best.

Still interesting though.

 

[BlueE]

From about 7 minutes.

Allen Dulles, Kennedy’s Assassination, & the Rise of America’s Secret Government​

Good interview of David Talbot author of "Devils Chessboard" on "John and Allen Dulles, JFK assignation and the Rise of America's Secret Government."

 

[The Punter]

Bit of content on more traditional media surrounding the assassination as today is the 60th anniversary.

Please someone let me know if they see the Paramount doc on the Parkland doctors pop up on Australian services?

The Parkland doctors would have been the key element to any defence case for Oswald if it ever went to trial. Put their testimony together with the autopsy by which all awful autopsies should be measured against, and you would have a very strong case for acquittal.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Bit of content on more traditional media surrounding the assassination as today is the 60th anniversary.

Please someone let me know if they see the Paramount doc on the Parkland doctors pop up on Australian services?

The Parkland doctors would have been the key element to any defence case for Oswald if it ever went to trial. Put their testimony together with the autopsy by which all awful autopsies should be measured against, and you would have a very strong case for acquittal.

Will have to find that doco, in the recent Oliver Stone doco I recall they interviewed some of the doctors involved? Or referred to their testimony? Any idea what it's called?

 

[The Punter]

Will have to find that doco, in the recent Oliver Stone doco I recall they interviewed some of the doctors involved? Or referred to their testimony? Any idea what it's called?

The new(ish) Stone doco (now available on SBS on demand) is excellent on the autopsy. The other stuff is well worn Stone tropes.

The paramount plus one is:

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The new(ish) Stone doco (now available on SBS on demand) is excellent on the autopsy. The other stuff is well worn Stone tropes.

The paramount plus one is:

I just watched this doco, the Parkland doctors are clear on their thoughts of what happened. A great doco focusing solely on the physical/medical evidence without much of the speculation of the traditional docos. Still some speculation around what happened before/at the autopsy.

The key thing is proving that Oswald did not act alone (at all?) Once you get that out of the way then it's about, ok so if it wasn't just Oswald who was it? To me it is clear.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this.

 

[The Punter]

I just watched this doco, the Parkland doctors are clear on their thoughts of what happened. A great doco focusing solely on the physical/medical evidence without much of the speculation of the traditional docos. Still some speculation around what happened before/at the autopsy.

The key thing is proving that Oswald did not act alone (at all?) Once you get that out of the way then it's about, ok so if it wasn't just Oswald who was it? To me it is clear.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this.

How did you watch it? I have Paramount through Prime Video and can't see it yet.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

How did you watch it? I have Paramount through Prime Video and can't see it yet.

Torrents

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I've been listening to a couple of podcast "Solving JFK" and "JFK the enduring secret".

Both these guys think Oswald didn't act alone and in fact may not have been a shooter at all but listening to a lot of the witness statements and events on the day it is clear there was someone shooting from the Book Depository. There is a discrepency between when the shooting happened and when Oswald appears on level 2 holding his can of coke as no one seems to have seen Oswald coming down the stairs even though there were people who should have. However they didn't see anyone else either and it is clear there was someone shooting from up on level 5 or 6.

Looking at the circumstantial evidence you would lean towards Oswald being the murderer but there also isn't that "smoking gun" to convict.

Alternatively, looking at the forensic evidence it seems a shot from the front being the kill shot was more likely but how did no one see a murder in broad daylight if the person was standing behind the picket fence? The fake secret service agent seems a likely suspect but then what happened to the weapon?

The more I learn the more confused I get. There's so much BS to sift through such as the Babushka Lady, the Umbrella Man etc but one of the things which seems befuddling is the "two Oswald's" - Oswald was seen exiting Dealy Plaza in a green sationwagon (I think it was) yet he caught the bus and then taxi home. So who was in the green car?

I also watched a series from a few years back, Tracking Oswald done by a former CIA agent. Now this show was in the mould of those hokey cable shows but it did raise some interesting points around the Cuban groups who had multiple safe houses along the bus route Oswald would've taken home from Dealy Plaza. I don't think the Cubans could have done it though you could argue if there was a cover up (which there almost certainly was on at least some level) perhaps it was done to avoid potential nuclear war which had almost occurred just a year earlier during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Again looking at the raw footage from the Zapruder film and looking at the testimony of the Parkland trauma surgeons it seems clear to me a kill shot came from the front.

But looking at all the circumstantial evidence and witness testimonies you would say Oswald did it on his own.

It is a never ending rabbit hole and I doubt we will ever get the whole truth, the ongoing mystery is what makes it so intriguing as are the consequences of what happened if there was involvement from US intelligence services.

 

[BlueE]

I've been listening to a couple of podcast "Solving JFK" and "JFK the enduring secret".

Both these guys think Oswald didn't act alone and in fact may not have been a shooter at all but listening to a lot of the witness statements and events on the day it is clear there was someone shooting from the Book Depository. There is a discrepency between when the shooting happened and when Oswald appears on level 2 holding his can of coke as no one seems to have seen Oswald coming down the stairs even though there were people who should have. However they didn't see anyone else either and it is clear there was someone shooting from up on level 5 or 6.

Looking at the circumstantial evidence you would lean towards Oswald being the murderer but there also isn't that "smoking gun" to convict.

Alternatively, looking at the forensic evidence it seems a shot from the front being the kill shot was more likely but how did no one see a murder in broad daylight if the person was standing behind the picket fence? The fake secret service agent seems a likely suspect but then what happened to the weapon?

The more I learn the more confused I get. There's so much BS to sift through such as the Babushka Lady, the Umbrella Man etc but one of the things which seems befuddling is the "two Oswald's" - Oswald was seen exiting Dealy Plaza in a green sationwagon (I think it was) yet he caught the bus and then taxi home. So who was in the green car?

I also watched a series from a few years back, Tracking Oswald done by a former CIA agent. Now this show was in the mould of those hokey cable shows but it did raise some interesting points around the Cuban groups who had multiple safe houses along the bus route Oswald would've taken home from Dealy Plaza. I don't think the Cubans could have done it though you could argue if there was a cover up (which there almost certainly was on at least some level) perhaps it was done to avoid potential nuclear war which had almost occurred just a year earlier during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Again looking at the raw footage from the Zapruder film and looking at the testimony of the Parkland trauma surgeons it seems clear to me a kill shot came from the front.

But looking at all the circumstantial evidence and witness testimonies you would say Oswald did it on his own.

It is a never ending rabbit hole and I doubt we will ever get the whole truth, the ongoing mystery is what makes it so intriguing as are the consequences of what happened if there was involvement from US intelligence services.

Hadn't heard any of those podcasts, but started listening to Ep 5 When did Osward get rifle into the building? Paper sack? and Tippets episodes.

Yates who gave evidence about picking up hitchhiker on the Wednesday who looked liked Oswald and asking about assasinating Kennedy, when it was proved Oswald was at work at that time.

Yates Committed involuntarily to a mental institution for picking up an Oswald lookalike or to protect that man?

Seems there was a lookalike that day and might have been involved with Tippet and been upstairs in the theatre where Oswald, following precedure to be extracted was, as well

Fraiser said Oswald had a brown paper package container curtain rods. Conflicting witness reports from his sister and mother. Midnight polygraph? Inconclusive. No possibility that a 34.8 inch rifle stock could have fitted into a brown paper bag Frasier said was in the back seat of his car, 27 inches. Yet they found a brown paper bag 37 inches long on the sixth floor, with only left index finger and right thumb which didn't match with how he was supposed to be carrying it.

Not only was he the Patsy, he was part of the CIA and part of their black ops (exposed in new documentary based books by Ed Haslam and Judith Vary Baker) in New Orleans to kill Castro, which probably made him vulnerable to be the fall guy.

No doubt the kill shot came from the front and there were mulitple groups involved including the mob, who I think took credit for that shot. Not in the open white picket fence, but along further.