JJ Yes or No?

[jaytex]

JJ is almost the most frustrating key forwards we've ever had. His first instinct is to run back towards the goal, he chases for three steps then gives up unless there is a goal on offer. He's got his money and now is resting on the fact he has 4 years left to give half efforts.
He's frustrating because he has shown glimpses that he could be one of the best forwards in the comp, but just can't be arrrsed.

I was about to say, "Ian Perrie says hi"

when I realised that JJ is in fact more frustrating to me in that his potential vs output differential is a goddamn chasm.

 

[John Who]

Well his scoring output is down on previous years (unsurprisingly) but his intent and aggression to the ball/contest is better then previous seasons IMO. So his season has been hard to judge for me.

In terms of consistent forwards, well thats a bit of a give-in considering the injury curse we've suffered! Pretty much Steven Bradbury'd that so far!

Agreed with everything you said. My point was more that JJ is contributing to the team the most out of all our forwards (Bradbury-style or otherwise), now's not really the time to be picking on his weaknesses.

 

[Thetrader15]

A midnight debate with Sanders..
So you're saying we should demote JJ back to the SANFL because the coaches aren't giving him kudos points?
Any fan can pick any player's weaknesses or some stats which make a player seem non-worthy, but it's the overall relative contribution to the team that matters the most. Are you implying that there has been a forward that has contributed more than JJ this year, if I shouldn't be focusing on "goals kicked"?

Exactly! Who are the best forwards of all time? Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett...why? Because they kicked lots of goals, not because they tackle, etc. Forwards are there to kick goals and if you aren't doing that, you had better do something else

 

[Hammond]

Exactly! Who are the best forwards of all time? Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett...why? Because they kicked lots of goals, not because they tackle, etc. Forwards are there to kick goals and if you aren't doing that, you had better do something else

Does full forward really even exist anymore?

 

[Thetrader15]

Does full forward really even exist anymore?

Nope, but forwards do and for me, a kpf's primary job is to kick goals.

Anything else is a bonus

 

[Grooster24]

Nope, but forwards do and for me, a kpf's primary job is to kick goals.

Anything else is a bonus

Doesn't matter if you don't get a tackle if you kick the goal in the first place.


On iPhone so don't be a Grammar Nazi

 

[Hammond]

Nope, but forwards do and for me, a kpf's primary job is to kick goals.

Anything else is a bonus

If you want to live 25 years in the past then sure

 

[Thetrader15]

If you want to live 25 years in the past then sure

So what is a forward's main role if not to score?

 

[huludicidal]

I don’t believe any of the 3 of Jenkins, Dear or Himmelberg are the answer in the short-term, and it’s blatant that Jenkins (approaching 30 and showing zero improvement over the last 3 years) and Dear (never played an AFL game and probably never will) aren’t the answer in the long-term.

The forward line I would like to see in 2019 is:

HF: Lynch Walker Murphy
F: Betts McGovern Fogarty

The above forward line is a nice mix of speed, running power, marking power, pressure, aggression, assists, creativity and goalscoring ability.

Guys like Knight, Douglas and Greenwood can rotate in to this forward setup from further up the ground when the above are on the bench. If I was to name a 7th forward (or bench forward), it would be Knight.

I like Keath as a replacement to cover Walker or McGovern if there are any injuries there. Jenkins is another option as a replacement, but I don’t believe he can co-exist with Walker anymore as neither of them provide an ounce of pressure, and Jenkins also doesn’t take enough contested marks or create enough scoring opportunities for his teammates.

What happens to Jenkins? I’d be looking to package him up with our first pick to move up to take Rankine (Pick 3-5). Failing that, he becomes a backup who plays SANFL the majority of the time.

We continue to develop Himmelberg in the SANFL (maybe he scores a token debut in 2019 if Walker or Gov go down), and we select a tall forward later in the National Draft.

Dear will be delisted. He isn’t good enough. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise.


To summarise:
Himmelberg may be a long-term answer, but for 2018-19, it’s purely development mode.

Jenkins = no. Backup to Walker only.

Dear = no. Delist.



Note: I do not care in the slightest about not having a clear “backup ruckman”. Jenkins is a horrible ruckman, and Richmond have proven beyond all doubt that selecting a tall forward who can also act as a backup ruck is completely and utterly pointless.

My backup ruckman would be Greenwood. Has a nice leap, is a decent height, is aggressive, and has lightning reflexes once the ball hits the deck.

 

[Hammond]

So what is a forward's main role if not to score?

I can’t believe you’re actually arguing this.

How many B&F’s did 1000+ goal kicker Gary Ablett snr win?

1 in his 1st season at Geelong in 1984 when he kicked 33 goals

What do you think Dan Butler, Jason Castagna, Josh caddy & Dan Rioli do when you watch Richmond play?

Or is that the point? That you don’t

 

[Morning_Fog]

I can’t believe you’re actually arguing this.

How many B&F’s did 1000+ goal kicker Gary Ablett snr win?

1 in his 1st season at Geelong in 1984 when he kicked 33 goals

What do you think Dan Butler, Jason Castagna, Josh caddy & Dan Rioli do when you watch Richmond play?

Or is that the point? That you don’t

Are you saying Dan Butler, Jason Castagna and Josh Caddy are better than Gary Ablett snr?

 

[Hammond]

Are you saying Dan Butler, Jason Castagna and Josh Caddy are better than Gary Ablett snr?

I think they, along with Dan Rioli were a great supporting cast for Gaz and really helped him in that 1984 season.

 

[Morning_Fog]

I think they, along with Dan Rioli were a great supporting cast for Gaz and really helped him in that 1984 season.

What?

 

[Hammond]

What?

Exactly.

 

[Morning_Fog]

Exactly.

No, not exactly

What you replied with made no sense. It was not coherent.

A simply response would have been suffice but you are more interested in being a clown.

 

[John Who]

I can’t believe you’re actually arguing this.

How many B&F’s did 1000+ goal kicker Gary Ablett snr win?

1 in his 1st season at Geelong in 1984 when he kicked 33 goals

What do you think Dan Butler, Jason Castagna, Josh caddy & Dan Rioli do when you watch Richmond play?

Or is that the point? That you don’t

I think you're getting a bit carried away with your argument. The BnF has absolutely nothing to do with a forward's contribution to the team. BnF's are usually won by the midfielders, most years.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Exactly! Who are the best forwards of all time? Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett...why? Because they kicked lots of goals, not because they tackle, etc. Forwards are there to kick goals and if you aren't doing that, you had better do something else

Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett....these guys played mostly in the VFL. I would much prefer you to compare past full forwards from the SANFL. The greatest of all was Ken Farmer. The best F Forward of all. Fred Phillis was another that had a better rcord than Dunstall. So please use our South Aussie boys as a reference.

Dont worry its just me and my hatred of the Vic centric past.

 

[Allefgib]

Where do ppl think he'll sit in the bnf at this point end of year? Our highest forward?

 

[Golumless]

Where do ppl think he'll sit in the bnf at this point end of year? Our highest forward?

Most likely in sheer volumes of votes seeing he's been the only one who has remained fit for the whole season, and not only that, has improved in his competitiveness.

I doubt he'll have a really favourable votes per game though.

 

[Sanders]

Where do ppl think he'll sit in the bnf at this point end of year? Our highest forward?

Tex will be, and there’s still time for Lynch

On the important per games average vote basis, JJ will be outside the top 10 as per usual. Probably 14th/15th something like that

 

[Sanders]

The BnF has absolutely nothing to do with a forward's contribution to the team.

Man, you’re hilarious sometimes.

You should start a thread

BnF's are usually won by the midfielders, most years.

you sure you aren’t confusing umpires with the coaching panel?

These ridiculous old chestnuts get rolled out a little too often

2017 plenty of talls perform well at BnF

And

Coaches hate goals

 

[Sanders]

No, not exactly

What you replied with made no sense. It was not coherent.

A simply response would have been suffice but you are more interested in being a clown.

Hi Alex

 

[Thetrader15]

I can’t believe you’re actually arguing this.

How many B&F’s did 1000+ goal kicker Gary Ablett snr win?

1 in his 1st season at Geelong in 1984 when he kicked 33 goals

What do you think Dan Butler, Jason Castagna, Josh caddy & Dan Rioli do when you watch Richmond play?

Or is that the point? That you don’t

Have these guys grown since last year?

The discussion was regarding KEY position forwards

 

[Thetrader15]

Lockett, Dunstall, Ablett....these guys played mostly in the VFL. I would much prefer you to compare past full forwards from the SANFL. The greatest of all was Ken Farmer. The best F Forward of all. Fred Phillis was another that had a better rcord than Dunstall. So please use our South Aussie boys as a reference.

Dont worry its just me and my hatred of the Vic centric past.

Great call. My apologies, this subconscious Vic bias is slowly making it's way into me via osmosis.

Hodges, Jackovich, Modra, Pavlich...

 

[FR0GGY]

I think you're getting a bit carried away with your argument. The BnF has absolutely nothing to do with a forward's contribution to the team. BnF's are usually won by the midfielders, most years.

Ahhh no