Coach John Longmire - Part IV

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SM said:
Serious question here: if we don't win the flag this year after this sort of year, does that change the perception of Horse in terms of a new contract or not? Does not performing in a solitary game offset what could be one of the great H&A seasons?
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I think this is his Swansong regardless if we win or not.

But it would dramatically offset his standing to be in such a dominant position and fail again (even worse if its a flogging) would reveal the message/preparation was wrong again.
 
SM said:
Serious question here: if we don't win the flag this year after this sort of year, does that change the perception of Horse in terms of a new contract or not? Does not performing in a solitary game offset what could be one of the great H&A seasons?
Click to expand...
I don’t think so

But the choking mock will be on him well and truely for ever.

Would have to play on his mind wether he signs or not


He has had some good sides

Mark williams and port like
 
Heeney2Franklin said:
I think this is his Swansong regardless if we win or not.

But it would dramatically offset his standing to be in such a dominant position and fail again (even worse if its a flogging) would reveal the message/preparation was wrong again.
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Why?
 

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Heeney2Franklin said:
If it happens again and we save our worst game of the season on the final day that something is going wrong drastically during GF week?

Preparation/mindset for a GF is completely different to any point during the season.

If this was the EPL Longmire would be regarded one of the greatest coaches ever but its not.
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I meant why is this the end for him regardless?
 
I'm probably going to get a few dislikes for this, but here goes...

I've always been a supporter of Longmire, even when the team dipped and some were calling for his head. I always knew it was due to personnel at the time, and not horse's inability to coach.

But I have a couple of issues with his coaching.

1. His inability to get his team 'up' for big games / GFs. I know this doesn't rest solely on the coach's shoulders. The player's mentality play a significant part. But horse is the common thread, and what I hear him trott out (pun intended) during press conferences is very one dimensional. Attack at the contest, intent, we didn't execute etc. It's the same old systems-based approach, that if we just do what we've trained we'll get the result. And while that's true in theory, and across the H&A season, when you get to grand finals, it's not just about executing what you've done all year, it's about finding something extra. Because your opponent will be putting everything on the line to hold up the cup. And in 3 consecutive GF losses. I've seen our opponents throw everything on the line while we were left wanting.

Clarko famously used the 2012 loss to inspire his team against us in 2014. They came out and belted us in the 1st quarter, physically dominated us. And we didn't respond. That was on horse to have us out there breathing fire in the 2nd quarter and raise the physicality of our game but we rolled over without a whimper.

The loss against the Saints imo was pure arrogance from the group. To me, horse didn't send a strong enough message to the group that the performance against freo was unacceptable. That our slow starts were unacceptable. That this group has the opportunity to achieve greatness, but that will ONLY be achieved by bringing an intensity that NO team in the league can match and that can only be achieved by staying focused on doing the hard stuff consistently.

2. His phasing out of older players. I don't agree with how he's managed Parker this year, and to me, it's a carbon copy of his treatment of JPK in 2022. I don't recall much about ROK being cooked in 2014, but he got the same treatment. The fact he hasn't brought Parker in, is a complete failure to plan for potential injuries leading into finals. The team dynamics have changed drastically since Parker last played for us, I find it strange that he wouldn't take this as an opportunity to try Parker out with time to work out if he's still capable of playing a key role for us. Instead, he faces the possibility of having to call on him in finals after he's been thrown in the expired basket.

Parker's situation is similar to JPKs in 2022. JPK basically had his papers stamped, knew he was playing for his career, and went out lunging for a player, which probably wouldn't have happened if he felt secure in the team. Likewise, Parker gets suspended for playing an assertive role in the 2s, once again, is probably feeling the pressure and did something otherwise unecessary. Yes, JPK had slowed down. But given the way our midfield got dominated by Geelong, JPK would have been an asset in that GF. But Horse's approach that year ruled that possibility out.

For someone who's coaching philosophy is built on players being able to play multiple roles, I find it astounding that he can't find a spot for Parker by shuffling players around. For someone who develops a team to offer him flexibility. He's been quite rigid in how he manages the team. The fact he couldn't find a role for JPK, the fact he can't find a role for Parker. Might as well not bother with the multiple position rubbish when you have the magnets glued to the board.

Horse is a great people person, I have no doubt about that. But he's a little one-dimensional in his approach, and it has cost us in the past. If he fails again this year, I'd be prepared to move on from him as coach.
 
GoTheSwannies said:
I'm probably going to get a few dislikes for this, but here goes...

I've always been a supporter of Longmire, even when the team dipped and some were calling for his head. I always knew it was due to personnel at the time, and not horse's inability to coach.

But I have a couple of issues with his coaching.

1. His inability to get his team 'up' for big games / GFs. I know this doesn't rest solely on the coach's shoulders. The player's mentality play a significant part. But horse is the common thread, and what I hear him trott out (pun intended) during press conferences is very one dimensional. Attack at the contest, intent, we didn't execute etc. It's the same old systems-based approach, that if we just do what we've trained we'll get the result. And while that's true in theory, and across the H&A season, when you get to grand finals, it's not just about executing what you've done all year, it's about finding something extra. Because your opponent will be putting everything on the line to hold up the cup. And in 3 consecutive GF losses. I've seen our opponents throw everything on the line while we were left wanting.

Clarko famously used the 2012 loss to inspire his team against us in 2014. They came out and belted us in the 1st quarter, physically dominated us. And we didn't respond. That was on horse to have us out there breathing fire in the 2nd quarter and raise the physicality of our game but we rolled over without a whimper.

The loss against the Saints imo was pure arrogance from the group. To me, horse didn't send a strong enough message to the group that the performance against freo was unacceptable. That our slow starts were unacceptable. That this group has the opportunity to achieve greatness, but that will ONLY be achieved by bringing an intensity that NO team in the league can match and that can only be achieved by staying focused on doing the hard stuff consistently.

2. His phasing out of older players. I don't agree with how he's managed Parker this year, and to me, it's a carbon copy of his treatment of JPK in 2022. I don't recall much about ROK being cooked in 2014, but he got the same treatment. The fact he hasn't brought Parker in, is a complete failure to plan for potential injuries leading into finals. The team dynamics have changed drastically since Parker last played for us, I find it strange that he wouldn't take this as an opportunity to try Parker out with time to work out if he's still capable of playing a key role for us. Instead, he faces the possibility of having to call on him in finals after he's been thrown in the expired basket.

Parker's situation is similar to JPKs in 2022. JPK basically had his papers stamped, knew he was playing for his career, and went out lunging for a player, which probably wouldn't have happened if he felt secure in the team. Likewise, Parker gets suspended for playing an assertive role in the 2s, once again, is probably feeling the pressure and did something otherwise unecessary. Yes, JPK had slowed down. But given the way our midfield got dominated by Geelong, JPK would have been an asset in that GF. But Horse's approach that year ruled that possibility out.

For someone who's coaching philosophy is built on players being able to play multiple roles, I find it astounding that he can't find a spot for Parker by shuffling players around. For someone who develops a team to offer him flexibility. He's been quite rigid in how he manages the team. The fact he couldn't find a role for JPK, the fact he can't find a role for Parker. Might as well not bother with the multiple position rubbish when you have the magnets glued to the board.

Horse is a great people person, I have no doubt about that. But he's a little one-dimensional in his approach, and it has cost us in the past. If he fails again this year, I'd be prepared to move on from him as coach.
Click to expand...
Late reply. I have absolutely no idea if you're right or wrong but here's something pretty good to chew on.
 
Kiama Chris said:
Late reply. I have absolutely no idea if you're right or wrong but here's something pretty good to chew on.
Click to expand...

Jeansey's mum lived a couple of doors up from me and would see him a fair bit , what a great person , you would've run through a brick wall for him
 

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If this is the case & Horse is struggling to contain his emotions around the players & assistants, then it's time to step aside. We can't have that. I can't stand Chris Scott but he at least keeps his emotions in check.

Going ape shit during the game & then coming out at the presser saying how proud you are of their efforts doesn't cut it in today's footy.
I trust he'll sort it out but I do find it uncomfortable when he is smashing his assistants.
 
Tedeski said:
If this is the case & Horse is struggling to contain his emotions around the players & assistants, then it's time to step aside. We can't have that. I can't stand Chris Scott but he at least keeps his emotions in check.

Going ape shit during the game & then coming out at the presser saying how proud you are of their efforts doesn't cut it in today's footy.
I trust he'll sort it out but I do find it uncomfortable when he is smashing his assistants.
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We were going well with him upstairs , why change !
 

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Coach John Longmire - Part IV

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