Unsolved JonBenet Ramsey

[Cataholic]

Probably his military background also taught him to obey orders, "sit and wait for the call"

True.

But would that training override your most primeval instinct to protect your child, find her no matter what?

Maybe. Not sure it would mine.

Maybe he thought it that was the best way to get JB back.

Or maybe he was playing a long game.

 

[Cataholic]

I definitely think it's strange, but I don't think it's incompatible with them being in shock or emotionally overwhelmed. I don't mean that they would have been completely frozen but perhaps better explained as unable to connect with the reality of what was happening. So yes they'll do things, but not things that are connected to what's really happening, which searching would be. Getting a lawyer and calling friends is a fairly practical and intellectual thing to do, so it's still distanced from the situation.

I'm not sure being in the military prepares you for your daughter being missing. I lawyer up if I have to speak to the police even as a witness in something because it's in my own background, and also, for a lot of very wealthy people lawyers are who they get to advise them on everything.

All fair points.

 

[OnTheRocks]

the drop off procedure was supposedly going to be long and difficult, so he was allegedly going to be carting it all over town.

Ever seen Dirty Harry? Sounds familiar

No, I don't think it was, either. Which is not to say that I think Patsy and/or John wrote it, but that whoever wrote it did it as some sort of message, game, or deflection.

Red herrings everywhere in the note. Designed to waste time, instill fear, confuse, cast doubt & suspicion all while giving a glimmer of hope that the Ramseys will get their daughter back. Cruelly the author knew they wouldn't get her back alive.

 

[Cataholic]

Ever seen Dirty Harry? Sounds familiar

Red herrings everywhere in the note. Designed to waste time, instill fear, confuse, cast doubt & suspicion all while giving a glimmer of hope that the Ramseys will get their daughter back. Cruelly the author knew they wouldn't get her back alive.

Yep, the author knew .....the million $ question is whether or not its readers knew.

 

[Kurve]

No, not stuck on the monies at all.

Just dont see the point in going to the extent of all the snooping around to discover the bonus and multiple attempts to write what would become a lengthy ransom note if the sole intention was to inflict pain.
Might aswell have walked in, killed the child where she lay and left, the end result would be the same with a lot less risk of discovery.

And another thing that strikes me as strange, John searches the house for his missing Daughter but doesnt find her, he then searches again and finds her.
If my car keys go missing I, and im sure most people, would turn my house upside down looking for them, yet it took 2 attempts to find his missing child in his own home.

Wasn't it Fleet White who did the search first and couldn't find the light switch in the room JonBenet was in? She was under a blanket anyway.

They all appeared to believe she'd really been kidnapped, so searching the house was simply because it had to be done and nobody expected to find her. The second time, it was the minder police officer who in trying to get them to do something useful, said to search the house again. That's when JonBenet was found.

 

[ms finch]

Wasn't it Fleet White who did the search first and couldn't find the light switch in the room JonBenet was in? She was under a blanket anyway.

They all appeared to believe she'd really been kidnapped, so searching the house was simply because it had to be done. The second time, it was the minder police officer who in trying to get them to do something useful, said to search the house again. That's when JonBenet was found.

I think that was one of the points of the ransom note - to make them believe she'd been kidnapped so they didn't search the house as thoroughly.

The killer had concealed her enough that at a glance she wasn't there. So even if prior to finding the note John and Patsy ran around and did a search to see if she was just hiding in the house there was a fair chance they wouldn't spot her. If you've got two thoughts - child hiding or abducted - then you're likely either racing through rooms calling for her to come out but not necessarily searching every hidey hole or you're operating on the assumption she's off the premises. They find the note and suddenly that takes all the attention. As you say, they only searched the house because it had to be done.

This buys time. It means two things. Primarily that whoever did it has a longer lead time to get away. But also, someone may have thought that delaying things meant that forensic evidence, rudimentary as it was at that point in time (by comparison to now), was less likely to be able to be found.

It may also have been to deliberately cast suspicion on John and Patsy, but I think it was mostly about giving the perpetrator time to disappear.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Probably his military background also taught him to obey orders, "sit and wait for the call"

But didnt obey the orders to talk to no one, even stray dogs.

 

[GreyCrow]

John had a military background (taught to remain calm under pressure) and was a successful business man running a billion dollar company (think quickly, strategically) but he froze?

I wonder if there was anything military connected - now this is free thinking with no grounds for anything - ie he was involved with a 3 letter company prior to his discharge and there was something or some clue which pinpointed that for him.

 

[Cataholic]

I wonder if there was anything military connected - now this is free thinking with no grounds for anything - ie he was involved with a 3 letter company prior to his discharge and there was something or some clue which pinpointed that for him.

All possibilities should be considered.

 

[ms finch]

While we are on slightly different/left field theories, I have wondered if it could have been someone in the police. There is no direct evidence of this, but the shoddy police investigation coupled with the intensity of the focus on John and Patsy that was almost to witch hunt levels has given me pause.

It's pretty clear to me that the police force had some level of resentment towards John and Patsy, probably due to their wealth, calling lawyers and general assertiveness, but it's possible that there was some sort of personal issue with someone in the police force.

I keep thinking about the GSK/EAR and the fact that even before the DNA evidence was used it was obvious to most people that the perpetrator in the EAR matter was likely a police officer due to the information he was able to access, which was known at the time. I cannot believe that at no point did police themselves recognise that and I personally believe that they did and because of that they deliberately ignored it. I've also seen situations where, when there is a suspicion a police officer may be involved, the general police force not only ignores it but shuffles the investigation elsewhere, even if they don't know who it is.

So it's just a thought that I have rolled around in my head.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Wasn't it Fleet White who did the search first and couldn't find the light switch in the room JonBenet was in? She was under a blanket anyway.

They all appeared to believe she'd really been kidnapped, so searching the house was simply because it had to be done and nobody expected to find her. The second time, it was the minder police officer who in trying to get them to do something useful, said to search the house again. That's when JonBenet was found.

Fleet white is the unsung hero of this case.
He was the only one pushing for Alex hunter to be replaced , he sued to try and get the grand jury records released. This dude did more than the police and the Ramsays to help find the killer.


No coincidence after he discovered the body with John the relation soured, over the years he has stopped short of openly accusing John of doing it but I think he knows imo.

 

[faible]

While we are on slightly different/left field theories, I have wondered if it could have been someone in the police. There is no direct evidence of this, but the shoddy police investigation coupled with the intensity of the focus on John and Patsy that was almost to witch hunt levels has given me pause.

It's pretty clear to me that the police force had some level of resentment towards John and Patsy, probably due to their wealth, calling lawyers and general assertiveness, but it's possible that there was some sort of personal issue with someone in the police force.

I keep thinking about the GSK/EAR and the fact that even before the DNA evidence was used it was obvious to most people that the perpetrator in the EAR matter was likely a police officer due to the information he was able to access, which was known at the time. I cannot believe that at no point did police themselves recognise that and I personally believe that they did and because of that they deliberately ignored it. I've also seen situations where, when there is a suspicion a police officer may be involved, the general police force not only ignores it but shuffles the investigation elsewhere, even if they don't know who it is.

So it's just a thought that I have rolled around in my head.

Even today a lot of police forces are pretty inept, but back then it would have been even moreso.

I think it's simply a matter of the local PD not really having the knowledge or experience to deal with this properly, so they ****ed it up right from the outset.

Not that it couldn't be someone in the police, but I think that the shoddy investigation isn't linked to who committed the crime, just ineptitude.

 

[Lady O]

Even today a lot of police forces are pretty inept, but back then it would have been even moreso.

I think it's simply a matter of the local PD not really having the knowledge or experience to deal with this properly, so they ****ed it up right from the outset.

Not that it couldn't be someone in the police, but I think that the shoddy investigation isn't linked to who committed the crime, just ineptitude.

I think you have to factor in Christmas, when a lot of Police were on leave.

 

[OnTheRocks]

No, not stuck on the monies at all.

Just dont see the point in going to the extent of all the snooping around to discover the bonus and multiple attempts to write what would become a lengthy ransom note if the sole intention was to inflict pain.
Might aswell have walked in, killed the child where she lay and left, the end result would be the same with a lot less risk of discovery.

And another thing that strikes me as strange, John searches the house for his missing Daughter but doesnt find her, he then searches again and finds her.
If my car keys go missing I, and im sure most people, would turn my house upside down looking for them, yet it took 2 attempts to find his missing child in his own home.

Nothing fits how you imagine how the perpetrator(s) should have done things. Probably because you're not a criminal that has murder in mind.
The 'extent', imo was to commit a crime & get away with it.
As for your 'end result', the perpetrator has never be caught. So there was no less risk of discovery. What ever planning they did, worked!

JBR wasn't a set of 'car keys'. Once again it doesn't fit your view on what you think should have happened.
Stress can make the rational decline

 

[Awakening]

Wasn't it Fleet White who did the search first and couldn't find the light switch in the room JonBenet was in? She was under a blanket anyway.

They all appeared to believe she'd really been kidnapped, so searching the house was simply because it had to be done and nobody expected to find her. The second time, it was the minder police officer who in trying to get them to do something useful, said to search the house again. That's when JonBenet was found.

Supposedly the Ramseys were also messy with stuff everywhere so I can see how she could be missed.

Especially when you are thinking she’s been kidnapped. If there was no note and she just wasn’t in her bed, then yes I’d be frantically searching the house.

 

[Earls Smother]

Nothing fits how you imagine how the perpetrator(s) should have done things. Probably because you're not a criminal that has murder in mind.
The 'extent', imo was to commit a crime & get away with it.
As for your 'end result', the perpetrator has never be caught. So there was no less risk of discovery. What ever planning they did, worked!

JBR wasn't a set of 'car keys'. Once again it doesn't fit your view on what you think should have happened.
Stress can make the rational decline

This is not a criticism of any particular poster, but your point here is very pertinent.

Not everyone is cut out to be a criminal. By the same token, not everyone is cut out to be a detective. Oddly enough, the best detectives are best able to think like criminals.

A lot of people can't look at things outside their own way of thinking. What would I have done? Oh, he or she didn't do that, therefore they must be guilty. Again, it's not a criticism, it is simply human nature. We all think differently.

Why can some people do cryptic crosswords and others wouldn't have the first idea? We are all given the same clues - theoretically it is the same for everyone. In practice, some people can only look at the words as they are written. Others apply lateral thinking, to look at the words/letters/phrases from all angles and come up with an answer. It is not intelligence as such, it is an ability to think beyond the basic information in front of you.

I would bet that those Boulder cops couldn't complete the simplest of cryptic crosswords between the lot of them.

 

[johnymac1]

In the 2016 Feature done by Dr Phil. A witness speaks out, she was a neighbour and reported screaming in the early hours.
So why didn't the family Allert to an intruder?

 

[Kurve]

In the 2016 Feature done by Dr Phil. A witness speaks out, she was a neighbour and reported screaming in the early hours.
So why didn't the family Allert to an intruder?

The Ramseys inside the house probably didn't hear it, especially if any screams came from the basement which is furthest away from John and Patsy's room on the third floor.

 

[Awakening]

In the 2016 Feature done by Dr Phil. A witness speaks out, she was a neighbour and reported screaming in the early hours.
So why didn't the family Allert to an intruder?

Because the neighbour heard it but the Ramseys didn’t? Was the neighbour awake at the time and the Ramseys asleep? We go through different sleep cycles and depending on where you are in the sleep cycle will depend if you hear something or not.

 

[Lady O]

Because the neighbour heard it but the Ramseys didn’t? Was the neighbour awake at the time and the Ramseys asleep? We go through different sleep cycles and depending on where you are in the sleep cycle will depend if you hear something or not.

She had her mouth taped, so it's unlikely it was JB screaming.

 

[Kurve]

She had her mouth taped, so it's unlikely it was JB screaming.

They're not sure when that was done though and she hadn't tried to take the tape off, it's possible there was an initial scream or as she came to after being stunned.

I sincerely believe a stun gun was used.

 

[Cataholic]

In the 2016 Feature done by Dr Phil. A witness speaks out, she was a neighbour and reported screaming in the early hours.
So why didn't the family Allert to an intruder?

What if it was Patsy who screamed?

 

[Lady O]

What if it was Patsy who screamed?

It's a University town. Its Christmas night........

 

[Cataholic]

It's a University town. Its Christmas night........

Sure. There was a lot of merriment, and the reported screaming could've come from anywhere.

But what if it was Patsy the neighbour heard?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I don't think he did it, but Burke (even as a kid) has/had a motive as legit as any other suspect named or investigated by police (sadly we have to accept children, esp in a very violent nation like the USA, are capable of murder, if the timing and motive is strong enough.

Would be appalled if their parents knew and covered up for him tbh.