List Mgmt. Josh Kelly to North II - It's Over

[the flying ham]

Front load him and get him through the doors. We are literally bottom of the ladder, finished 2nd last year before that. Weve been ordinary for years. Yes we are trending upward and have some great kids but ****ing hell, he is an absolute gun, would probably be our 1st or 2nd best player on the list and gets us one step closer.

Throwing money around for the sake of it ala Joyce is different to the current strategy where we seemingly have the cake and now are prepared to pay for the icing. The bloke would complement the side perfectly. Its a no brainer.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tas]

Are you saying we should not recruit big name players on big money contracts just in case they dont perform and it up sets other players. How are we suppose to improve if we dont take these type of risks. The draft alone wont do it. Sure it might not pan out but the risk is worth the reward if it does.

No, I am saying we shouldn't be offering or paying massively over market value for players because it usually causes either massive inflation at the club or leads to discontent when you start being realistic with contract offers to players you drafted. Look at Collingwood as an example of how quickly it can go pear-shaped.

He has been at GWS for 8 years, he has made the AA team once, back in 2017, 5 seasons ago, the same year he won their best and fairest. It has been his only AA and B&F. Even looking at the Brownlow medal, which is a glorified midfielder award, he polls fairly poorly outside of 2017.

He almost has a Jack Billings level of over-rating on this forum. A few months ago everyone was laughing at GWS with their ridiculous trigger clause and now everyone is trying to convince themselves that getting him on even more money is a good outcome.

 

[the flying ham]

No, I am saying we shouldn't be offering or paying massively over market value for players because it usually causes either massive inflation at the club or leads to discontent when you start being realistic with contract offers to players you drafted. Look at Collingwood as an example of how quickly it can go pear-shaped.

He has been at GWS for 8 years, he has made the AA team once, back in 2017, 5 seasons ago, the same year he won their best and fairest. It has been his only AA and B&F. Even looking at the Brownlow medal, which is a glorified midfielder award, he polls fairly poorly outside of 2017.

He almost has a Jack Billings level of over-rating on this forum. A few months ago everyone was laughing at GWS with their ridiculous trigger clause and now everyone is trying to convince themselves that getting him on even more money is a good outcome.

So in less time as a professional has made the all australian side more times than Cunners, Taz, Jy, LDU, basically the whole list except for goldy.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tas]

Does that mean Richmond were wrong to pay up for Lynch or Hawthorn stuffed up poaching Frawley?

Lynch yes, Frawley no.

Richmond lost a number of players signing Lynch and I don't think it has made them a better team.

Frawley's contract was only $550k x 4 years. The AFL gifted Melbourne band 1 compensation after knocking them back on a priority pick. The money he was on wasn't unreasonable.

 

[the flying ham]

The bloke is a jet. You can debate the contract all you like, but the fact remains he would probably be our best player and therefore a recruiting target

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tas]

So in less time as a professional has made the all australian side more times than Cunners, Taz, Jy, LDU, basically the whole list except for goldy.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah, but none of them are on $1.1m a year so what is your point?

 

[the flying ham]

Lynch yes, Frawley no.

Richmond lost a number of players signing Lynch and I don't think it has made them a better team.

Frawley's contract was only $550k x 4 years. The AFL gifted Melbourne band 1 compensation after knocking them back on a priority pick. The money he was on wasn't unreasonable.

Lynch has won two flags mate. Id say it has made them better. Who have they lost?

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[the flying ham]

Yeah, but none of them are on $1.1m a year so what is your point?

Apparently overrated by this board yet more accomplished than most of our players. Talk of discontent at 1.1mil to recruit a player, are richmond players filled with discontent at paying dusty 1.1 to stay and lynch 1mill to come from gold coast, or are they across the board pretty happy they have a couple medallions and worth more now on the open market than they were 5 years ago?

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[NMFC49]

No, I am saying we shouldn't be offering or paying massively over market value for players because it usually causes either massive inflation at the club or leads to discontent when you start being realistic with contract offers to players you drafted. Look at Collingwood as an example of how quickly it can go pear-shaped.

He has been at GWS for 8 years, he has made the AA team once, back in 2017, 5 seasons ago, the same year he won their best and fairest. It has been his only AA and B&F. Even looking at the Brownlow medal, which is a glorified midfielder award, he polls fairly poorly outside of 2017.

He almost has a Jack Billings level of over-rating on this forum. A few months ago everyone was laughing at GWS with their ridiculous trigger clause and now everyone is trying to convince themselves that getting him on even more money is a good outcome.

Agree. I reckon the cost to get him out of GWS could create long term problems in keeping our developing young group together. Also I'd be astonished if Kelly gives up the offer to secure 8 more years at GWS. In my view it is one of the most improvident contracts ever offered to a player.

 

[Tas]

Lynch has won two flags mate. Id say it has made them better. Who have they lost?

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah, and he couldn't get GC off the bottom of the ladder either. Richmond was a premiership calibre side before Lynch got there and he wasn't replacing an exiting key forward, they changed the structure of their forward line. If it wasn't for Martin realistically he would still be without a premiership.

Who did they lose? Since Lynch was taken they lost Conca, Ellis, Butler, Townsend, Markov and didn't bring any other players in which suggests it is salary cap squeeze. You can say you would gladly trade all those players for Lynch but some it cost them senior mature players and now that they have had more than a few injuries for the first time since they got Lynch they are struggling to be competitive. Some of the kids they have got look to be better quality players but they haven't had the same evolution with the game plan, they aren't consistent. I think too much now rests with too few atm.

I still think Richmond would have been equally as strong without Lynch, so I thought it was a bad pickup for them, they are a side that hits players on the lead in space, it doesn't matter if you are 180cm or 200cm, they aren't s aide that dumps the ball and expects key forwards to kick the bulk of their score.

Kelly is a wingman, nobody spends $1m+ on a wingman, you would need to inflict insane damage to justify that kind of money and 4 goal assists from 59 inside 50s is worse than Gibson in his worst year. He has had a good result on an individual level but so far he has performed in two years, in both years when his contract was up for renewal, it isn't overly optimistic unless we are giving him a string of one year deals.

 

[shinboner magic]

Yeah, and he couldn't get GC off the bottom of the ladder either. Richmond was a premiership calibre side before Lynch got there and he wasn't replacing an exiting key forward, they changed the structure of their forward line. If it wasn't for Martin realistically he would still be without a premiership.

Who did they lose? Since Lynch was taken they lost Conca, Ellis, Butler, Townsend, Markov and didn't bring any other players in which suggests it is salary cap squeeze. You can say you would gladly trade all those players for Lynch but some it cost them senior mature players and now that they have had more than a few injuries for the first time since they got Lynch they are struggling to be competitive. Some of the kids they have got look to be better quality players but they haven't had the same evolution with the game plan, they aren't consistent. I think too much now rests with too few atm.

I still think Richmond would have been equally as strong without Lynch, so I thought it was a bad pickup for them, they are a side that hits players on the lead in space, it doesn't matter if you are 180cm or 200cm, they aren't s aide that dumps the ball and expects key forwards to kick the bulk of their score.

Kelly is a wingman, nobody spends $1m+ on a wingman, you would need to inflict insane damage to justify that kind of money and 4 goal assists from 59 inside 50s is worse than Gibson in his worst year. He has had a good result on an individual level but so far he has performed in two years, in both years when his contract was up for renewal, it isn't overly optimistic unless we are giving him a string of one year deals.

Ok

 

[LB2Snake]

I honestly have no idea how anyone could possibly not want Josh. The dude is a freaking star, he oozes class, he is a leader, a hard worker... he plays the game the right way... and immediately makes us way better.
Imagine bringing him and Horne into the squad in one offseason!!! Do what ever it takes, pay the man, make it happen.

His right foot kick is as good as anyone’s preferred foot on our list. Absolute gun. Want.

 

[the flying ham]

Yeah, and he couldn't get GC off the bottom of the ladder either. Richmond was a premiership calibre side before Lynch got there and he wasn't replacing an exiting key forward, they changed the structure of their forward line. If it wasn't for Martin realistically he would still be without a premiership.

Who did they lose? Since Lynch was taken they lost Conca, Ellis, Butler, Townsend, Markov and didn't bring any other players in which suggests it is salary cap squeeze. You can say you would gladly trade all those players for Lynch but some it cost them senior mature players and now that they have had more than a few injuries for the first time since they got Lynch they are struggling to be competitive.

if after 3 premierships we have a few injuries and struggle to make the 8, im happy with that. I mean imagine winning three flags and complaining we had to squeeze that 5 off the list, perish the thought. What a joke

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tas]

Apparently overrated by this board yet more accomplished than most of our players. Talk of discontent at 1.1mil to recruit a player, are richmond players filled with discontent at paying dusty 1.1 to stay and lynch 1mill to come from gold coast, or are they across the board pretty happy they have a couple medallions and worth more now on the open market than they were 5 years ago?

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Martin has 3 premierships, 3 norm smith medals, brownlow medal, 4x AA team... Kelly isn't on the same planet as Martin. Martin performs every year and carries that team. He isn't paid enough imo.

I don't even think our players are happy across the board with what we forked out for Polec, but I rate Kelly a lot higher than Polec.

Brownlow medal.
2020: Martin 15, Kelly 8
2019: Martin 23, Kelly 11
2018: Martin 19, Kelly 10
2017: Martin 36, Kelly 21
2016: Martin 26, Kelly 6

What is it 56 vs 119 over the last 5 years. I don't really rate the Brownlow, but it is pretty indicative when it comes to midfielders who are capable of winning matches, it doesn't accurately show the value of workhorses like Cunnington but it is much better at showing the gap between the damaging players and how consistently they perform.

As I said, the real problem will occur if he doesn't perform. That is when the shit will hit the fan, if we say get Horne and he is flying after 2-3 years and Kelly is sucking arse and Horne's contract is up, you reckon he would be happy to take a $500k offer if someone is sucking it up on $1.1m? You need to take the blinkers off an imagine it is you doing the heavy lifting whilst someone else is being paid 2-3x more than you. I KNOW how people react in the workforce when the differential is minor.

If he is going to get the money, he MUST earn it.

 

[Phillyroo]

If he is going to get the money, he MUST earn it.

Awesome.... so the exact same demand we should have on every contracted player we have.

 

[the flying ham]

Martin has 3 premierships, 3 norm smith medals, brownlow medal, 4x AA team... Kelly isn't on the same planet as Martin. Martin performs every year and carries that team. He isn't paid enough imo.

I don't even think our players are happy across the board with what we forked out for Polec, but I rate Kelly a lot higher than Polec.

Brownlow medal.
2020: Martin 15, Kelly 8
2019: Martin 23, Kelly 11
2018: Martin 19, Kelly 10
2017: Martin 36, Kelly 21
2016: Martin 26, Kelly 6

What is it 56 vs 119 over the last 5 years. I don't really rate the Brownlow, but it is pretty indicative when it comes to midfielders who are capable of winning matches, it doesn't accurately show the value of workhorses like Cunnington but it is much better at showing the gap between the damaging players and how consistently they perform.

As I said, the real problem will occur if he doesn't perform. That is when the sh*t will hit the fan, if we say get Horne and he is flying after 2-3 years and Kelly is sucking arse and Horne's contract is up, you reckon he would be happy to take a $500k offer if someone is sucking it up on $1.1m? You need to take the blinkers off an imagine it is you doing the heavy lifting whilst someone else is being paid 2-3x more than you. I KNOW how people react in the workforce when the differential is minor.

If he is going to get the money, he MUST earn it.

Martin is being paid 1.1 million to REMAIN at the tigers. Most people would understand his worth on the open market now would be worth much higher than that. Is kelly worth 1.1 million? Probably not, but market forces mean that if the NMFC coming off a wooden spoon want to recruit a guy likely to get his second AA spot this year, we would have to pay more. And given we are likely to win a wooden spoon, we should be targetting him. Because he would be our probably be our best player.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[blackshadow]

I watched Blue Murder for the first time a couple of weeks ago on Netflix. When it came out I was living in nsw and it was not allowed to be screened due to ongoing court proceedings.

Such a great piece of television. It makes Underbelly look like a pantomime. Roxborough as Rogerson is masterful. I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it and to rewatch if you have. It's held up very well.

NSW had the best cops money could buy then.

 

[pupstar]

Yeah, and he couldn't get GC off the bottom of the ladder either. Richmond was a premiership calibre side before Lynch got there and he wasn't replacing an exiting key forward, they changed the structure of their forward line. If it wasn't for Martin realistically he would still be without a premiership.

Who did they lose? Since Lynch was taken they lost Conca, Ellis, Butler, Townsend, Markov and didn't bring any other players in which suggests it is salary cap squeeze. You can say you would gladly trade all those players for Lynch but some it cost them senior mature players and now that they have had more than a few injuries for the first time since they got Lynch they are struggling to be competitive. Some of the kids they have got look to be better quality players but they haven't had the same evolution with the game plan, they aren't consistent. I think too much now rests with too few atm.

I still think Richmond would have been equally as strong without Lynch, so I thought it was a bad pickup for them, they are a side that hits players on the lead in space, it doesn't matter if you are 180cm or 200cm, they aren't s aide that dumps the ball and expects key forwards to kick the bulk of their score.

Kelly is a wingman, nobody spends $1m+ on a wingman, you would need to inflict insane damage to justify that kind of money and 4 goal assists from 59 inside 50s is worse than Gibson in his worst year. He has had a good result on an individual level but so far he has performed in two years, in both years when his contract was up for renewal, it isn't overly optimistic unless we are giving him a string of one year deals.

If the Tigers did not think he would and has improved them why did they pay a small ransom for him. Be interesting to see if they resign him when he is out of contract that will tell us if they are happy with him being there. So if we sign Kelly for a heap is it your opinion that Luff and company are making a huge mistake and have no idea.

 

[pupstar]

No, I am saying we shouldn't be offering or paying massively over market value for players because it usually causes either massive inflation at the club or leads to discontent when you start being realistic with contract offers to players you drafted. Look at Collingwood as an example of how quickly it can go pear-shaped.

He has been at GWS for 8 years, he has made the AA team once, back in 2017, 5 seasons ago, the same year he won their best and fairest. It has been his only AA and B&F. Even looking at the Brownlow medal, which is a glorified midfielder award, he polls fairly poorly outside of 2017.

He almost has a Jack Billings level of over-rating on this forum. A few months ago everyone was laughing at GWS with their ridiculous trigger clause and now everyone is trying to convince themselves that getting him on even more money is a good outcome.

S o who should we target to trade in to help us improve and contend for finals.

 

[the flying ham]

S o who should we target to trade in to help us improve and contend for finals.

Adelaides Tom Lynch, he is cheaper

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[shinboner magic]

Tom Browne rumour has started this.

 

[pupstar]

Adelaides Tom Lynch, he is cheaper

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ha ha i will stick with Kelly as will you i am sure.

 

[the flying ham]

Ha ha i will stick with Kelly as will you i am sure.

Jake Kelly, good call, also cheap. Like it

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[WD Roo]

Tom Browne rumour has started this.

It's barely a rumour. It's more like click bait.

 

[Tas]

Awesome.... so the exact same demand we should have on every contracted player we have.

For high profile players, most players are given two year deals and if they don't perform they are out the door, or get a massive negative adjustment. The pressure is on them to perform. When you give someone an 8 year deal to run to the end of their career then all the pressure is on the club.